Do you think it's Christian to own guns?

[7101]

Apart from those needing them for living - do you think people should own guns?
I cannot tie Jesus up with a gun-owner that has them for the sake of having them

This is an old, provocative argument that is condescending to gun owners and tries to put one Christian above another. If you don't like guns don't have one but the arguments are in valid. For example, "would Jesus own a gun?" That's the same as saying would Jesus own a condom or car insurance or would Jesus even look both ways before crossing the street?
The argument is silly. Should police have guns? Should our military have guns? Well, in the same way, Americans have the 2nd amendment. Do you know why? So the Government can not go against us. Look at Paris, Sweden. England which are crawling with murderous Muslims. Do you think they have a chance? People are being raped and murdered. That won't happen in America because we all have guns. We also look both ways befor crossing. I hope no one takes that as a lack of faith.

 

[jiminpa]

Would it maybe be a better option to say that when the Government acts outside of the Law, that their behaviour is at best questionable and innapropriate, where it is up to its citizenry to non-violenty stand up against this improper (and probably illegal) behaviour. We have to ask ourselves if we could ever refer to a legally elected government (of any nation) as being illegal.

He who calls himself king decides what is legal, so what is really legal? But again, we have a document, and if our processes are bypassed then the government is not legal. Who knows what happens in the programming of the cute displays they put in our electoral polling places? Do the "buttons" do anything more than add an animation to the display? How do we know?

 

[jiminpa]

A few years ago more people in Philadelphia "voted" for a candidate for governor than were registered in Philadelphia to vote. House pets, fictional characters and dead people are "voting." So how legal are the elections?

 

[road dog 1]

Apart from those needing them for living - do you think people should own guns?
I cannot tie Jesus up with a gun-owner that has them for the sake of having them

jesus said sell your cloak and buy a sword, it was the gun of the day.

 

[D. A. Taylor]

Let's see what Jesus instructed His apostles, about what how they should evangelize after His death:

And He said to them, "When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?" They said, "No, nothing." And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one (Luke 22:35-36).

Christ came to pay the penalty for man's evil....not to pretend that it does not exist.

 

[D. A. Taylor]

jesus said sell your cloak and buy a sword, it was the gun of the day.

Amen!

 

[jiminpa]

So, since the OP is very broad, how about this: since Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever, (Hebrews), and Jesus is God, (John 1, Phil 2, and numerous other places), and Jesus spoke of turning the other cheek, and told the first disciples to buy a sword, and God, (who Jesus is and is unchanging), had His people kill even women and children, what is the bigger picture as it relates to the OP? Is there a time to turn the cheek, as well as a time to defend the weak with force? I personally think that both are valid, and peace preferable when possible.

 

[redleghunter]

It can be hard for an Australian to understand the gun culture of the USA in particular but as the US is a vastly different creature to Australia then gun ownership can certainly have its benefits.

Last week I came across an article that said that in our State that one in eight Victorians own guns, which was a big surprise as I thought that outside of our farmers and a few gun collectors that only criminals in our country owned weapons. To my knowledge, I can only think of one person who I know that owns a gun and he legally lives on the rural side of the road in a country town on a 10 hectare property, which means that he can easily own a gun, but I don't know why he needs one but that's up to him.

Up until my wife and I visited the US three years ago, I presumed as with most other Australians that Americans had some sort of blood lust where they maybe enjoyed killing; but through a chance encounter with a gun owner in Death Valley who explained the complexities of gun ownership, after I came back and took a good look at the issue, I realised that within the US that private gun ownership is probably a good idea.

I would imagine that if I found myself living in certain places within the US that I could very easily choose to even open-carry a side arm under certain circumstances; but here in Australia I would be strongly against any relexation of our gun laws as we do not need guns to settle our differences and to better secure our family and home, which can be quite a different thing in the US.

The Right to bear arms is in our Bill of Rights. It was put there for a reason. To deter tyranny. It was also put in there because we have a inherent right to self defense.

If a lawful citizen encounters a person with intent or in the act of shedding another's blood, they have a moral obligation to come to the aid of innocent blood. You can't defend innocent life if the aggressor is armed and you are not.

The police cannot be everywhere and they also take a long time to get out to rural areas. I would not be comfortable unarmed in a rural or suburban environment and not have the means to defend my family.

Sure Americans have some gun nuts. Most of them like to shoot and are law abiding citizens. They also don't get robbed, attacked, raped or murdered.

The majority of gun owners are responsible and take shooting classes and certifications.

Now I agree Jesus did not need a sword but he gave his disciples the freedom to defend themselves.

I enjoyed serving with some of the best Australians while serving in the US Army. My advice is Australians should consider defending their own families. You have a growing radical Islamic population and they are wolves on the prowl to devour the sheep.

 

[WilliamGoode]

Apart from those needing them for living - do you think people should own guns?
I cannot tie Jesus up with a gun-owner that has them for the sake of having them

I had my guns blessed. I named the triple shooter Jesus, Joseph and Mary.

Operation Cosmic Teapot

 

[Jonathan Lankford]

Apart from those needing them for living - do you think people should own guns?
I cannot tie Jesus up with a gun-owner that has them for the sake of having them

Esther 9:15-17
15 The Jews who were in Susa assembled also on the fourteenth day of the month Adar and killed three hundred men in Susa, but they did not lay their hands on the plunder.
16 Now the rest of the Jews who were in the king's provinces assembled, to defend their lives and rid themselves of their enemies, and kill 75,000 of those who hated them; but they did not lay their hands on the plunder.
17 This was done on the thirteenth day of the month Adar, and on the fourteenth day they rested and made it a day of feasting and rejoicing.

Isaiah 1:15-17
15 "So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; Yes, even though you multiply prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood.
16 "Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; Remove the evil of your deeds from My sight. Cease to do evil,
17 Learn to do good; Seek justice, Reprove the ruthless, Defend the orphan, Plead for the widow.

Luke 22:35-36 (The words of Christ himself.)
35 And He said to them, "When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?" They said, "No, nothing."
36 And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.

1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

 

[Albion]

Apart from those needing them for living - do you think people should own guns?

I cannot tie Jesus up with a gun-owner that has them for the sake of having them

Well, Jesus lived His life for an example for us to follow - would He have owned a gun?

His top apostle was armed in Jesus' presence, so I see nothing to be concerned about.

 

[redleghunter]

Well, Jesus lived His life for an example for us to follow - would He have owned a gun?

Yes He did leave His example. He also did not marry, kept a kosher diet and observed all the Jewish festivals.

He also said the following:

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. (Luke 22:36)

 

[redleghunter]

His top apostle was armed in Jesus' presence, so I see nothing to be concerned about.

Indeed. Luke 22:36 is clear enough. We are to defend our families, and defenseless innocent blood.

 

[redleghunter]

We know that Peter carried a sword in John 18:10 which would make us wonder if he or others carried swords during their travels with Jesus to ward of any potential bandits.

If we look at Luke 22:36 Jesus gave instructions for the disciples to support and protect themselves.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. (Luke 22:36)

I don't think you're quoting that verse in context. They subsequently tell Jesus that they have two swords and Jesus replied (sarcastically?) "It is enough". Afterwards we have the Mt Olives scene and then the betrayal and arrest of Jesus wherein someone cuts off the right ear of the high priests slave. Jesus' reaction is to heal him and subsequently says to them "Have you come out with swords and clubs as if I were a bandit?"

It's not altogether clear in this context in what sense Jesus was talking about his followers owning swords and he certainly rebuked his followers for acts of violence. Jesus certainly seemed to be dismissing the notion that he was a bandit (which is what groups of messianic Jewish people running around Palestine carrying swords would probably be construed as being).

 

[redleghunter]

Many years ago I heard a sermon where he said it was not Christian to have insurances. I don't think you can own a car these days without having one.
In actual fact I believe that most people would be better off if they cut out a lot of their insurances as I did some 30 years ago. I was paying all these insurances on my house, car etc and thought - 'So what would it cost if I lost these? I would just have to start from scratch getting some Salvation Army donations etc..( that I had supported for many years) - and thought, 'that wouldn't be so bad it would be a new challenge and the money I will save will pay for that anyway' and I would be relying on Jesus much more to protect me.
In actual fact I saved money by getting rid of my insurances. None of these insurance firms are there to help us but to line their own pockets that's all and I tell them that if they phone to try and get business.
We had a firm here that was advertising non-stop to pensioners on TV - 'Australian pensioners insurance'
'Sign up with us and save all this money....' it went on and made me more cross so one day I phoned up the boss and said, 'Stop trying to steal from old age pensioners who live on a shoe string!
You advertise all the time and try to manipulate them to give you money that is totally unnecessary to their lives! If something goes wrong then their kids will just get a bit less that's all'
These ads stopped coming on! The firm is still there but I rarely see an advert and so it should be!
If people relied on Jesus more they would have a lot more money
Now I know there will be cases where people would have been in trouble had they not had one but overall I think most people would be better off without if they have Jesus

Do you seek an emergency room when seriously injured? Do you take medication for ailments your doctor prescribes?

Car insurance is important to protect people you may injure. The Law prescribes restitution for even accidents. It's the Christian thing to do if you are responsible for an accident.

Life insurance is an inheritance to ensure you do not leave the burden of taking care of your widow and orphans on the church. There is nothing wrong with storing up "for winter" or drought either. We learned this from Joseph.

We are not to amass wealth beyond what is necessary for supporting our families and providing for our elderly. He who is able to work and does not work should not eat.

 

[MEK]

So in this post-modern, criminal friendly version of Christianity who stands between the killer and the innocent?

Jesus - if He is asked to.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

I don't get it, the notion that Americans need more guns is ludicrous to me. Most guns which exist on the black market are there because of straw purchasing. If there were no guns on sale there'd be less guns on the black market, it would seem...

 

[redleghunter]

I don't think you're quoting that verse in context. They subsequently tell Jesus that they have two swords and Jesus replied (sarcastically?) "It is enough". Afterwards we have the Mt Olives scene and then the betrayal and arrest of Jesus wherein someone cuts off the right ear of the high priests slave. Jesus' reaction is to heal him and subsequently says to them "Have you come out with swords and clubs as if I were a bandit?"

It's not altogether clear in this context in what sense Jesus was talking about his followers owning swords and he certainly rebuked his followers for acts of violence. Jesus certainly seemed to be dismissing the notion that he was a bandit (which is what groups of messianic Jewish people running around Palestine carrying swords would probably be construed as being).

Heh and Jesus was such a sarcastic character huh? I'm not suggesting Jesus was allowing the disciples to become ninjas. He was just reminding them they could defend themselves if necessary. The OT not just the Law allows for defending innocent blood.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Heh and Jesus was such a sarcastic character huh? I'm not suggesting Jesus was allowing the disciples to become ninjas. He was just reminding them they could defend themselves if necessary. The OT not just the Law allows for defending innocent blood.

The OT also contains an eschatological hope "beating the swords into ploughshares". And when Jesus does catch them using their swords, as I pointed out, he heals the one whom they attack. It's again, not altogether clear from the text that Jesus was telling his followers to carry weapons.