Do you think it's Christian to own guns?

[redleghunter]

Preppers are preparing for cataclysmic events where government fails to provide law and order. The second scenario is our constitutional government falls to despotism and turns on its citizens. I know some preppers. They are not trying to start a war. They know the US military has tanks, helicopters and artillery. They are not suicidal or crazy. Some might be crazy but so is our president

 

[Martinius]

Apart from those needing them for living - do you think people should own guns?
I cannot tie Jesus up with a gun-owner that has them for the sake of having them

I think it is okay unless you go around indiscriminately shooting them at people.

 

[Biblicist]

Not accurate. If someone cannot afford health care they qualify for state Medicaid. It is based on the income poverty level. Before Obamacare there were people who could afford healthcare but elected not to. They get sick and have to pay out of pocket. For cancer that can bankrupt a family. You can't buy car insurance after wrecking your car. With Obamacare everyone must purchase health insurance. Much like how car insurance works other than taking public transportation

The poor still get government coverage. Always have.

I have seen the most giving folks in the world in Americans. Especially churches run fund raisers for those who cannot afford certain procedures.

Thanks for that update. Even though the OP was referring to some past events regarding her friends who were sick and who could not afford their medical bills, I had forgotten that this new medical bill was now in operation. We've had a similar arrangement here in Australia since 1975, though the charges increase dramatically each year and for those who are covered by the government Health Scheme, which can be great at times, there can still be a long waiting list for some types of operations as there are only so many hospitals, resources and doctors who are able to do this type of work. For the more skilled surgeons they understandably give most of their time to the wealthier hospitals that market themselves to those who can afford the better (and more expensive) insurance policies.

Even though some European countries offer great free healthcare as well, I tend to think that all of these 'free' schemes will eventuall go down the gurgler probably sooner or later as they seem to be way to expensive to maintain. This is further exasparated by the drug companies and private hospitals that have made a science out of ripping off both the public and government when it comes to fees and charges.

 

[jiminpa]

I may seem paranoid to some of you, but I just don't trust Satan and I don't understand why some of you do, and so, unless there is credible evidence that a government is so full of real and practicing Christians, walking out their faith in God by serving in office, that there is no room for Satan I don't trust it.

The U.S. constitution solves that very real problem by not allowing the government to have enough power to do any real damage. The U.S. constitution has been violated long before I was born.

 

[Adam81]

It can be hard for an Australian to understand the gun culture of the USA in particular but as the US is a vastly different creature to Australia then gun ownership can certainly have its benefits.

Last week I came across an article that said that in our State that one in eight Victorians own guns, which was a big surprise as I thought that outside of our farmers and a few gun collectors that only criminals in our country owned weapons. To my knowledge, I can only think of one person who I know that owns a gun and he legally lives on the rural side of the road in a country town on a 10 hectare property, which means that he can easily own a gun, but I don't know why he needs one but that's up to him.

Up until my wife and I visited the US three years ago, I presumed as with most other Australians that Americans had some sort of blood lust where they maybe enjoyed killing; but through a chance encounter with a gun owner in Death Valley who explained the complexities of gun ownership, after I came back and took a good look at the issue, I realised that within the US that private gun ownership is probably a good idea.

I would imagine that if I found myself living in certain places within the US that I could very easily choose to even open-carry a side arm under certain circumstances; but here in Australia I would be strongly against any relexation of our gun laws as we do not need guns to settle our differences and to better secure our family and home, which can be quite a different thing in the US.

Yet owning a gun has been proven (at least in the US) to make people in your family more likely to have a gun fired at them, be injured or even killed. US has more guns than people, and guns are almost the number one cause of death.
Two reasons for why not having a gun is safer in the US - it makes people a target (criminals steal guns) but the bigger reason is that most shooting incidents are someone being shot with a gun that is stored in their house. Guns don't protect you as you can't shoot bullets from someone else's gun out of the air. It can also be easier to talk a gunman down if you aren't pointing a gun at them, as most people (even police) will shoot first, and two armed peopel in a confrontation will both try to shoot before the other.

Yes it's in the US culture to have guns, but it's also in the US culture to allow lobby groups to have a lot of power, including gun and tobacco and alcohol and gambling lobby groups, even though these lobby groups only work for the makers and sellers of these products and not the customers.

 

[Biblicist]

No, a lot of us don't trust your government either. We look at human nature since the fall of man and see that once power is centralized abuse is inevitable and the only question is how long it will take. Many of us, (not all), see any amount of socialism as abdicating responsibility of your own life just so that when it all goes down the sewer you can at least claim that you didn't have any control over it, so it couldn't have been your fault. We consider that slothfulness and just an excuse.

As I have a very low opinion of the political process in here in Australia (a common feeling amongst Australians) and that we have had five Prime Minister's in five years, then this makes me the last person to say that our political process is better than that of the US, Canada or the UK. The advantage is that we've come from within the Westminster System (with its faults) and a form of Government that comes from the Magna Carta which seems to have helped us transition from being six independent British Colonies into one.

In fact, up until 1948 (or was it maybe 1964), we had no formal statement within our Constitution as to the meaning or definition of a "citizen", where most Australians where happy to see themselves as being British Subjects who happened to live on the other side of the world as Australians. It may have been in 1964, or just after, that we first dropped the phrase "British Subject" from our Passports.

Of course, it's always hard to compare the two countries where contiguous USA is about (15% ?) bigger than mainland Australia, but as our populations differ so much in size this means that there will be dissimilar social developments at play.

 

[jiminpa]

This is further exasparated by the drug companies and private hospitals that have made a science out of ripping off both the public and government when it comes to fees and charges.

Which is made possible by the backroom deals with the insurance companies and the doctors and the drug companies and the facilities and the governments, and our feeling like we aren't paying our own money when we go to the doctor and not having the slightest clue how much is being charged by whom for what "service." So everyone just tacks on a fee, and the everyone gets a cut and then we can't understand why our insurance premiums and taxes keep going up and up and we get less and less in return. And now in the U.S. it is illegal not to just had thousands of dollars to an insurance company for literally nothing in return, because the deducible is so high that we still can't afford to go to the doctor.

 

[redleghunter]

That's a good point, where I believe that George Bush's election result in Florida years back has also been put to question; which means that if this character had not been placed in power, then the chaos that he and his mililary generals and their billionaire friends have created in the Middle East could have been overted. But, what are the legal means to ensure that these things do not happen and how are these people to be appropriatedly punished.

I see you watch our liberal media a lot

Bush won FL by over 500 votes. There were three recounts and Gore never won any of them. Gore wanted FL reconsider ballots which "could have been for him" meaning he wanted the state to cook the books. He lost.

Bush did not start a war in the ME. It was started years before 9/11 with successive terrorist attacks on US soil and overseas. 9/11 was the straw which broke the camels back.

You are entitled to your opinion but I believe it is incomplete. The US and her allies were not attacked when we were engaging terrorists on their turf.

The West is in big trouble. They respond to terrorists and then lose interest and fortitude to finish the job. Your country and the UK tucked tail and left us there. We eventually followed too. So the West has a decision to make. Fight those who have a hatred and blood lust for us or accept Dhimmitude. Fight or submit to Islam.

 

[jiminpa]

Yet owning a gun has been proven (at least in the US) to make people in your family more likely to have a gun fired at them, be injured or even killed. US has more guns than people, and guns are almost the number one cause of death.
Two reasons for why not having a gun is safer in the US - it makes people a target (criminals steal guns) but the bigger reason is that most shooting incidents are someone being shot with a gun that is stored in their house. Guns don't protect you as you can't shoot bullets from someone else's gun out of the air. It can also be easier to talk a gunman down if you aren't pointing a gun at them, as most people (even police) will shoot first, and two armed peopel in a confrontation will both try to shoot before the other.

Yes it's in the US culture to have guns, but it's also in the US culture to allow lobby groups to have a lot of power, including gun and tobacco and alcohol and gambling lobby groups, even though these lobby groups only work for the makers and sellers of these products and not the customers.

Proven where? Seriously, almost all of the shooting deaths in the U.S. occur in places where it's illegal to have a gun, which is an illegal law.

 

[BSO66]

Apart from those needing them for living - do you think people should own guns?
I cannot tie Jesus up with a gun-owner that has them for the sake of having them

Ok miss goody two shoes......You haven't a clue what you are talking about. Don't even go there. This is the United States and it is our God given right to own firearms unlike many other countries that prohibit their citizens from owning them. It is our 2nd Amendment to our Constitution. "The right of the people to bear arms." It was put there by God fearing men who had the foresight to include this Amendment in order for the citizens to be able to protect themselves from any enemy, foreign or domestic and in case the government turned tyrannical against it own people. Do your research before you pass judgement or state your opinions. If you don't want to own a firearm then don't, but do not impose your beliefs upon me or the citizens of the USA to conform to your thinking. Too many Jesus freaks out there. They are incapable of rational thinking. I know some that cannot even go to the bathroom without praying about it and that's no lie. Good day and rethink before you make general statements before knowing the facts

 

[Biblicist]

Yet owning a gun has been proven (at least in the US) to make people in your family more likely to have a gun fired at them, be injured or even killed. US has more guns than people, and guns are almost the number one cause of death.
Two reasons for why not having a gun is safer in the US - it makes people a target (criminals steal guns) but the bigger reason is that most shooting incidents are someone being shot with a gun that is stored in their house. Guns don't protect you as you can't shoot bullets from someone else's gun out of the air. It can also be easier to talk a gunman down if you aren't pointing a gun at them, as most people (even police) will shoot first, and two armed peopel in a confrontation will both try to shoot before the other.

Yes it's in the US culture to have guns, but it's also in the US culture to allow lobby groups to have a lot of power, including gun and tobacco and alcohol and gambling lobby groups, even though these lobby groups only work for the makers and sellers of these products and not the customers.

In my first week in the US where we found ourselves driving on the 'wrong side' of the road for the first time, I quickly discovered that the drivers in the LA region had superb road manners, where I had to mention to my fellow Australians that the US drivers (we can forget New York!!!) were in my opinion far better behaved than us.

By about our third or fourth day I came across a radio article in our car where the broadcaster was talking about the good manners that most (again, we can forget New York) tend to exhibit. An interesting comment was made that she did not know why this was the case, where she surmised that maybe many Americans are a bit concerned that if they abuse another driver that he or she might come at them with a gun. Again, this was only a guess on her part but as she was an American on a local American station I found the remark to be interesting.

 

[redleghunter]

People are turning away from Christianity because of the Rock Star entertainment mentality, and the gimmi, gimmi, gimmi and the lack of morality and ethics, not that some Christians own guns.

You say you don't look down on people yet this is your response to the idea of believers owning a gun. The scriptures allow for one defending themselves. In turning the other other cheek Yeshua was referring to general every day living where your neighbor would try to sue you, or doing you wrong as a business deal, where the rulers of the day could ask for your cloak and by law you had to give it them so offer your coat as well. It had nothing to do with people breaking into your home to harm you and your family.

Of course we would not connect Yeshua with a gun, however, when was the last time you said "I am HE" and the whole mob coming for you fell to the ground? How bout the last time you were cornered and about to be pushed off a cliff, did you just walk through the middle of them and leave them dumbfounded as to where you went? When you can do that, then you have the right to tell others what they should and should not own.

A couple of the disciples had swords, so obviously Yeshua did not have an issue with them defending themselves and others. At one point He told them to not take a sword when they went out, in another instance He instructed to take a sword. Again, obviously, He had no issue with it. In Scripture the people were told they could defend themselves. The scripture you're using is pulled out of it's context and has nothing to do with with fearing for your life from your neighbor and you not being allowed to protect yourself. No where does Yeshua tell them to just let people wreak havoc on their homes and families. No where.

Yes one cannot turn the other cheek if someone shoots them in the head.

 

[Biblicist]

Ok miss goody two shoes......You haven't a clue what you are talking about. Don't even go there. This is the United States and it is our God given right to own firearms unlike many other countries that prohibit their citizens from owning them. It is our 2nd Amendment to our Constitution. "The right of the people to bear arms." It was put there by God fearing men who had the foresight to include this Amendment in order for the citizens to be able to protect themselves from any enemy, foreign or domestic and in case the government turned tyrannical against it own people. Do your research before you pass judgement or state your opinions. If you don't want to own a firearm then don't, but do not impose your beliefs up me or the citizens of the USA to conform to your thinking. Too many Jesus freaks out there. They are incapable of rational thinking. I know some that cannot even go to the bathroom without first praying and that's no lie. Good day and rethink before you make general statements before knowing the facts

Mmmm....a "first time" poster with an axe to grind and a very bad attitude as well, I wonder who this could be?

 

[redleghunter]

Lets see . . . that would be the very same flag that the government of South Carolina decided to remove because it was "a symbol of hatred and oppression"; which by the way it finally came about due to the massacre at that Black Church and also with the many church burnings that occurred after that massacre! From what I've read over recent months, I cannot seem to recall coming across any articles that said it was taken down due to its association with the earlier desires for the South to secede.


Oh, silly me! Maybe I will have to go and burn my history books and send a few emails to the Gettysburg and Smithsonian Museums telling them that they should remove their references to the culture of slavery that existed in those days - are your being serious!


Good grief, "Yahoo Serious", I had forgotten all about that clown - too bad that you reminded me of him. But I will certainly agree that we have a very serious alcohol problem here in Australia where the drink culture has caused a lot of harm particularly amongst our youth.

As there are about as many prepper sources as there are with the number of cans of soda, then I have absolutely no doubt that if I were to look hard enough that I could find a number of groups that have about as many options as the can of soda; but when you come onto a Christian site where the vast majority of people (including Americans) view it as nothing less then a symbol of hatred, then it might be a bit hard to take you all that seriously.


Obviously you need to get out a bit more as with even my mere six weeks in the USA, as I said, I was fascinated with the number of comments that people provided about a possible future civil war; and from what I could tell, none of them were wearing KKK gowns.

Given your logic the Union Jack and Stars and Stripes and your flag are racist. Both flags flew over each nation when slavery was legal. The Australian flag is a variant of the Union Jack. Take it down.

 

[Biblicist]

Given your logic the Union Jack and Stars and Stripes and your flag are racist. Both flags flew over each nation when slavery was legal. The Australian flag is a variant of the Union Jack. Take it down.

Ah yes, the flag of unity of the flags of St. George, St. Andrew and of St. Patrick, as the slave trade was abolished around 1770-80 (it was actually 1808) which was around six years to 10 years before Australia was actually colonised, this means that I might have a 'get out of jail' card on this one; but of course the ownership of slaves was not abolished until about 1832.(1833)

And as for the lovely Union Jack, for most kids this is a great flag as no matter how you draw the thing it is always right-side up!

PS. As I live in Victoria, which only became a Colony in 1851, this means that the British Flag did not represent slavery as it had been completely abolished by about 1832. (1833)

 

[GQ Chris]

Absolutely! Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!!

 

[redleghunter]

Would it maybe be a better option to say that when the Government acts outside of the Law, that their behaviour is at best questionable and innapropriate, where it is up to its citizenry to non-violenty stand up against this improper (and probably illegal) behaviour. We have to ask ourselves if we could ever refer to a legally elected government (of any nation) as being illegal.

Good point. Yes non violence begins at the peaceful ballot box. The problem is there is embedded fraud in liberal states where the urban population is dependent on government for just about everything.

You are right. If we elect representatives (or don't vote at all) who take our liberties away we only have ourselves to blame.

But as we see with Europe and in the US now , big government is a narcotic. Our Republic was not based on government handouts for the able bodied person who can work. But we have a whole class of people of all races and creeds in the US who vote for government handouts. Sure we are obligated as Christians to help the TRULY poor, truly widowed and orphans. But we are not and cannot afford to pay to support people who can work but refuse to work.

So yes we have close to half our nation beggars to their own demise.

 

[redleghunter]

Peter did have a sword and when he used it Jesus got angry with him and rebuked him. I hate guns. I think the less of them people can get their hands on the better for everyone.

Yes guns are awful devices in the hands of criminals and autocratic/Marxist governments. So you are just against lawful citizens having guns.

No wonder the East has been under the boot of both Islam and Communism for so long.

 

[Biblicist]

. . . But as we see with Europe and in the US now , big government is a narcotic. . .

Oohh...ouch..."we see with Europe"; now here's where the pinnacle of Western civilisation is exhibiting its finest values (cough...cough..splutter...splutter)!
As Europe is probably finished, I can see that the groundwork has now been set in place for the rise of the future Anti-Christ, now that will definitely be a very interesting political system to observe!

 

[redleghunter]

This is an old, provocative argument that is condescending to gun owners and tries to put one Christian above another. If you don't like guns don't have one but the arguments are in valid. For example, "would Jesus own a gun?" That's the same as saying would Jesus own a condom or car insurance or would Jesus even look both ways before crossing the street?
The argument is silly. Should police have guns? Should our military have guns? Well, in the same way, Americans have the 2nd amendment. Do you know why? So the Government can not go against us. Look at Paris, Sweden. England which are crawling with murderous Muslims. Do you think they have a chance? People are being raped and murdered. That won't happen in America because we all have guns. We also look both ways befor crossing. I hope no one takes that as a lack of faith.

Post of the week my friend

There was a Muhammad cartoon contest outside Dallas earlier this year. Two Muslims drove up to contest area with guns a blazing. Result. Two dead terrorists and one cop wounded. One of the terrorists did not even get a chance to get out of the car.