Do you think it's Christian to own guns?

[A greater Hope]

Exactly my point therefore you answered your question, so no more guns put them down and take up the sword which is the word of God.have a good one sir.

 

[A greater Hope]

Defense and vengeance are two COMPLETELY different things.

Defense is a similar reaction to vengeance it's still a form of pay back to the attacker your failed technicality won't get you far. Just admit that it's wrong to render evil for evil as the scriptures declare and stop wresting with the word of God.

 

[Sheeple Shepherd]

Defense is a similar reaction to vengeance it's still a form of pay back to the attacker your failed technicality won't get you far. Just admit that it's wrong to render evil for evil as the scriptures declare and stop wresting with the word of God.

I'm going to post something that I know you won't understand, but for the sake of others.
Much of the people on earth are not God's people. If God's people did not, do not, defend themselves, Satan would have won already, we'd all be dead.
God's people fight.



The good and the bad seed. One hears one doesn't.

Kenite
Strongs 7017 Hebrew.
patron from 7014; a Kenite or member of the tribe Kajin.

Kajin
Strongs 7014 Hebrew
Same as 7013 Kajin, the name of the first child. Cain, Kenite.

Kenite first appears in Genesis 15:19.

Then, having sent the crowds away, יהושע went into the house. And His taught ones came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the darnel of the field.” And He answering, said to them, “He who is sowing the good seed is the Son of Aḏam, and the field is the world. And the good seed, these are the sons of the reign, but the darnel are the sons of the wicked one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. And the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the messengers. “As the darnel, then, is gathered and burned in the fire, so it shall be at the end of this age.
Matthew 13:36-40

Messiah links the devil and murderer in the same seed line.

They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham. But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God." Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."
John 8:39-47

Cain was the first murderer in scripture.
There is no Cain shown in the genealogy of Adam.

This is the book of the genealogy of Aḏam. In the day that Elohim created man, He made him in the likeness of Elohim. Male and female He created them, and He blessed them, and called their name ‘Aḏam’ in the day they were created. And Aḏam lived one hundred and thirty years, and brought forth a son in his own likeness, after his image, and called his name Shĕth. And after he brought forth Shĕth, the days of Aḏam were eight hundred years. And he brought forth sons and daughters. So all the days that Aḏam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.
Genesis 5:1-5
Sent from my iPhone

 

[A greater Hope]

I'm going to post something that I know you won't understand, but for the sake of others.
Much of the people on earth are not God's people. If God's people did not, do not, defend themselves, Satan would have won already, we'd all be dead.
God's people fight.



The good and the bad seed. One hears one doesn't.

Kenite
Strongs 7017 Hebrew.
patron from 7014; a Kenite or member of the tribe Kajin.

Kajin
Strongs 7014 Hebrew
Same as 7013 Kajin, the name of the first child. Cain, Kenite.

Kenite first appears in Genesis 15:19.

Then, having sent the crowds away, יהושע went into the house. And His taught ones came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the darnel of the field.” And He answering, said to them, “He who is sowing the good seed is the Son of Aḏam, and the field is the world. And the good seed, these are the sons of the reign, but the darnel are the sons of the wicked one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. And the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the messengers. “As the darnel, then, is gathered and burned in the fire, so it shall be at the end of this age.
Matthew 13:36-40

Messiah links the devil and murderer in the same seed line.

They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham. But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God." Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."
John 8:39-47

Cain was the first murderer in scripture.
There is no Cain shown in the genealogy of Adam.

This is the book of the genealogy of Aḏam. In the day that Elohim created man, He made him in the likeness of Elohim. Male and female He created them, and He blessed them, and called their name ‘Aḏam’ in the day they were created. And Aḏam lived one hundred and thirty years, and brought forth a son in his own likeness, after his image, and called his name Shĕth. And after he brought forth Shĕth, the days of Aḏam were eight hundred years. And he brought forth sons and daughters. So all the days that Aḏam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.
Genesis 5:1-5
Sent from my iPhone

I sent this to hank earlier obviously you haven't read this as yet so read carefully,
2 Cor 10-3
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.
I don't know why your using the genealogy of Adam vs Cain to prove Gods ppl fight but it certainly is irrelevant to this conversation and it doesn't prove one should pick up guns and defend self from harm or death to hurt or destroy another's life.

 

[Sheeple Shepherd]

I sent this to hank earlier obviously you haven't read this as yet so read carefully,
2 Cor 10-3
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.
I don't know why your using the genealogy of Adam vs Cain to prove Gods ppl fight but it certainly is irrelevant to this conversation and it doesn't prove one should pick up guns and defend self from harm or death to hurt or destroy another's life.

It's not irrelevant.

I said you would not understand.

 

[A greater Hope]

It's not irrelevant.

I said you would not understand.

You don't understand sir but have it your way then I don't understand what your saying just as much as you don't what I'm saying have a good one.

 

[Sheeple Shepherd]

I sent this to hank earlier obviously you haven't read this as yet so read carefully,
2 Cor 10-3
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.
I don't know why your using the genealogy of Adam vs Cain to prove Gods ppl fight but it certainly is irrelevant to this conversation and it doesn't prove one should pick up guns and defend self from harm or death to hurt or destroy another's life.

Yes, of course, the warfare is spiritual, there is a war for the spirit of man, fought daily.

If you do not want to live, die.
Not my problem.


We are of no use to God if we are dead.


And guess what? you don't go to heaven when you die. So.........

 

[redleghunter]

How does one determine quickly whether the a person is innocent or guilty? Even if the person is not innocent but yet guilty, are you supporting vigilantism?



To each his own. I grew up in a rural area and my father had a rifle for hunting, but not a handgun. The rifle was only used for deer hunting once each fall. I now live in a suburban environment and I have never felt like I needed a gun.



Certainly, America has some gun nuts. Maybe they are law abiding citizens, but to say that they don't get robbed, attacked, raped or murdered is a rather broad statement that may miss the larger point.

Here is the 2013 stats by the CDC for firearm fatalities by state. The most likely place to experience death by firearm (all situations) also happens to be in the states where firearms are more present:





But from the viewpoint of violent crime, this article from USA Today quotes FBI statistics for 2013 for violent crimes by state. The top 4 states also have high availability of firearms: Alaska, New Mexico, Nevada and Tennessee:





There is a correlation here of higher gun availability/ownership to higher rates of violent crime. Maybe there are other factors involved, but I think it's too broad a statement to imply that gun owners are less likely to be subjects of violent crime. The stats contradict your assertion.



Do you have a verifiable source for this? There are approximately 100,000,000 people in the US that own at least one firearm, and statistically speaking, they own 3 firearms each. If the majority of firearm owners (50,000,001) were taking shooting classes and getting certifications within the past 5 years (just one class or certification), that would mean that there are 10,000,001 firearm owners doing this each year. Mind you, I'm not talking about people who merely go to a gun range and practice occasionally, as I don't consider that a shooting class or certification. The number of gun fails during the same period indicates that either people are not routinely going to shooting classes or getting certified in the use of their firearms, or these same firearm owners often forget any training they have received.

The age distribution in the US in 2000 (which won't be different for 2015):





This shows that about 7% of the US population is aged 15-19 (male and female). That's about 21,000,000 people who could be new drivers each year. I'm being generous with that number because in the range of 15-19 only about 16-19 are typically eligible for a license and they only get licensed once. Also, the likely ratio of females going to firearm certification is much, much lower than males. The 21 million figure is for the entire range, but still, let's go with it. Are you saying that each year we have half as many people getting certified to use firearms as we do getting licensed to drive a car? Just on the face of it, that seems like a very high estimate of firearm certification. The likely number of new drivers each year is probably around 4-7 million. This would indicate that more people (10 million) are getting certified for firearms each year than obtaining a driver's license. Again, on the face of it, I cannot see how that is possible.

Trying to find statistics on the number of people attending firearm classes or getting certifications is tricky. There generally is no requirement for people to do either unless they are getting certified for concealed carry, which is a dramatically lower number than than those attending any kind of class or certification, much less firearm owners nationwide.

Seems the argument is if there are more firearms available there are an increased chance of firearm mortality. Could be the case. But the data is inconclusive. I'm sure the rates are much higher in urban areas where there are restrictions on gun ownership. That pretty much puts to rest the issue of availability.

Most mass shootings also occur in "gun free zones"----lambs led to slaughter.

I grew up in NY and went to school in NYC. Worked in the City too. Only cops and criminals had guns. Sheep to the slaughter again. Women
gun ownership has steadily increased. My buddy runs an NRA safety and shooting course. Most of his classes are now filled with young women. Quite an indicator. It means they don't trust their men to protect them. I can see why reading these posts.

I lived most of my adult life now in Texas. You grow up around guns here. Sportsmen range, hunting and military service. No big deal around here.

As you said to each his own. If you are comfortable in waiting 15 mins to an hour for the police to show up for an armed home invasion it's your life. If you can live with the consequences of being powerless to defend your family that's your business.

If the bad guys know you are armed they will go find a sheep without a sheep dog.

I will say this thread helped me with my holiday shopping today. My 11 and 16 yr old sons will have two new shiny .22 rifles for Christmas. Just in time to use on the school rifle team.

I'm going to name the rifles Lexington and Concord. I will put them in the safe with my AP-4 which is named Crusader.

 

[A greater Hope]

Yes, of course, the warfare is spiritual, there is a war for the spirit of man, fought daily.

If you do not want to live, die.
Not my problem.


We are of no use to God if we are dead.


And guess what? you don't go to heaven when you die. So.........

Your tempting me with words I notice but I'm not intimidated at all.To live is Christ and to die is gain Paul said that and yes I know very well it is appointed once for a man to die then the judgment I believe the scripts but what does dying and not going straight to heaven even have to do with our discussion? Anyway if u feel showing love to your enemy who wants to kill you is taking up a gun to also eliminate him as well, jus don't go around in the name of The Lord saying he say I can please don't err like that. Christ said to love your enemies even them that despitefully use you Bless and cures not,renderer not evil for evil fight not fire with fire but overcome evil with good,
Shalom.

 

[redleghunter]

Hi malvina,

I am having a hard time imagining Jesus outfitted with an array of guns. That's not what Jesus would have done.
I propose changing the wording on America's currency from "in God We Trust" to "In Guns We Trust".

Kutte

You are right no guns for Christ. That's because His Words will slaughter millions at His Second Advent. The bodies will be flowing in rivers of blood and the birds will feast on those who oppose Him. Reference Revelation 19.

 

[Sheeple Shepherd]

You are right no guns for Christ. That's because His Words will slaughter millions at His Second Advent. The bodies will be flowing in rivers of blood and the birds will feast on those who oppose Him. Reference Revelation 19.

You are correct.

Also, Zech 14
12And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand on their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. 13And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbor, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbor. 14And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. 15And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.




People believe that their jesus will come to save them, the reality is that the Messiah Yahshua comes to SLAUGHTER them.

That's right, Righteousness of the Messiah....his very presence will cause their skin to melt off.


It's billions that will die in the end.

 

[Ned Netterville]

That's very noble of you to admit that you do not love your neighbor enough to defend them from an attacker.

South Bound. Your assumption is based on...what??? I'd defend them with my life. It is very ignoble and not very intelligent to make assumptions with no basis. Logically speaking, you are bound to be wrong.

 

[Ned Netterville]

Like I always say, once the argument breaks down, the insults come out.

Evidently your argument against my position broke down from the very start, for you started your, ahem, "argument" with an insult. Watch out what you say. Your own words have a way of biting you.

 

[Ned Netterville]

Honestly, sounds like that preacher wants more money in his pocket.

I happen to agree with Malvina on the subject of insurance, and I've been blessed with the same experience. However, I wouldn't suggest to just anyone they try the same for I think they have to be confident in their faith in order to do so successfully.

 

[malvina]

I don't believe there is anything wrong with collecting guns.
I know a woman who collects swords and there are a few battle axes thrown in too.

I don't believe collecting guns is a sin either! This thread is really about the fanatics and the fact that there are so MANY guns making it much easier for any unbalanced person to get hold of them to use and create carnage especially in this time of drugs

Now I think THIS is fanatical! I feel so sorry for these poor kids This is what one member just posted, What chance do these kids have?

"I will say this thread helped me with my holiday shopping today. My 11 and 16 yr old sons will have two new shiny .22 rifles for Christmas. Just in time to use on the school rifle team"
I'm going to name the rifles Lexington and Concord. I will put them in the safe with my AP-4 which is named Crusader.

 

[Hank77]

This thread is really about the fanatics and the fact that there are so MANY guns making it much easier for any unbalanced person to get hold of them to use and create carnage especially in this time of drugs

OP question...Do you think it is Christian to own guns?
You say no.
So are you saying that Christians who own guns do not obey God and are fanatics and/or unbalanced?

I don't think you are but you have changed what the thread is suppose to be about and frankly is a different issue. We do not find those problems solved directly in the scriptures.

 

[malvina]

Well this is my opening statement. I should have elaborated on it much more!

'Apart from those needing them for living - do you think people should own guns?
I cannot tie Jesus up with a gun-owner that has them for the sake of having them'

The reason I don't believe people should have guns is because they have got out of hand. Unbalanced people are getting hold of them and causing carnage. Under these circumstances I don't think it IS Christian to own them especially as some have got fanatical about owning them. They are collecting them, hiding and burying them - preparing for WAR - with anyone that tries to take them away from them.
This probably should have been my opening statement
It doesn't make sense to me that some of the most fanatical are charismatic leading Christians that spend their time preaching that God answers prayers - will always protect us - yet have to have their guns

 

[South Bound]

South Bound. Your assumption is based on...what???

Based on your post in which you said you would not use violence to stop someone attacking your family.

I'd defend them with my life.

And how would you do that?

Evidently your argument against my position broke down from the very start, for you started your, ahem, "argument" with an insult.

Please quote this alleged "insult" or apologize for the slander.

 

[jiminpa]

John 18:10
Jesus' Betrayal and Arrest
…9to fulfill the word which He spoke, "Of those whom You have given Me I lost not one." 10Simon Peter then, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's slave, and cut off his right ear; and the slave's name was Malchus.11So Jesus said to Peter, "Put the sword into the sheath; the cup which the Father has given Me, shall I not drink it?"



You realize that Peter attempted to cut Malchus' head off? right?


One does not draw his sword in the company of Roman soldiers and expect to live.

Maybe not...Peter knew that without his ear the high priest's servant was defiled and unfit to serve the high priest.

 

[jiminpa]

I don't see how this is possible. You have either misstated the issue or confused it with something else.

Philadelphia County is coterminous with the City of Philadelphia, so election results for the county are the same election results for the city.

The population of Philadelphia County has remained steady for the past 15 years, and so have the election results, except for 2014 when fewer votes were cast relative to registered voters.


2014 Election Results -- 378,807 votes cast





2010 Election Results -- 422,783 votes cast





2006 Election Results -- 428,841 votes cast





2002 Election Results -- 404,025 votes cast

You are only partially correct as you compared population to votes, and I mentioned registered voters, but I was still wrong, so my apologies. Nonetheless, we do have digital machines that do whatever they are programmed to do and politicians who are only interested in themselves.