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Do you think I am being selfish

Discussion in 'Married Couples' started by WilliamBradley, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    I can think of one reason... who looks after the children while they do?

    (I can think of other reasons too, but this one tends to be the big factor for most parents of young children).
     
  2. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    I don't think it is here. The video I shared is from our (northern Californian) coast. We have just too many whales around here (blue whales, humpback whales, and orcas) for the sport to be compatible with our ocean environment.
     
  3. Endeavourer

    Endeavourer Well-Known Member

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    It is critical to well being of the children to prioritize time for their parents to stay in love, even though it will certainly mean the use of babysitters if the children are young enough. It's far better for the children to experience babysitters than a dysfunctional marriage between the parents and/or divorce.

    Dr. Harley's research found that marriages are in very grave danger when wives feel neglected. It is in the children's best interest for the wife to not feel neglected rather than for the wife to be neglected in favor of avoiding babysitters.

    Why Women Leave Men
     
  4. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Oh, babysitters are good, and time together for the parents is good.

    But the blithe assumption that everyone can organise or hire a babysitter for a whole day, or on a regular basis, is simply false.

    Not everyone has relatives or friends nearby whom they can ask (or who are willing). Not everyone can afford to pay a babysitter on a regular basis. Some children are not able to be left with a babysitter for extended periods of time.

    As someone who's really struggled because it's not as easy as "get a babysitter," I object to that being presented as a simplistic answer.
     
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  5. Tropical Wilds

    Tropical Wilds Lord, beer me strength...

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    I’m on the east coast, in New England, so I totally get it. It sounds odd, but your ocean there behaves totally different than ours, especially in southern Maine through Mass. I don’t see it being something doable in the parts of the west coast I saw.

    I went on an excursion once, though I didn’t do the fishing part of it because I didn’t want to deal with the fish. I used to me an avid kayak person... I just found the whole experience to be miserable. Even when it’s not all that hot, you boil your butt off because of the double whammy of reflected sunlight and overhead sun with no shade. It also takes a level of physical effort that I found both exhausting and tedious and made the experience hard to enjoy. While I could go out on a lake and spend 8 hours paddling around to here and there and I adore all things ocean, 45 minutes in the ocean excursion and I was ready to be anywhere but where I was. I know that’s not everybody’s experience, but when I hear he’s making a day of it... Unless a reason for the long day is a long commute to the coast, it’s not something one can do for that long. I worry his expectations are different than what the experience is. It’s not a novice activity.
     
  6. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    .....also....time alone can *also* be good for a person's well-being and the love in the marriage. Together =/= the only way to strengthen love.

    However.....it doesn't really matter what our opinions are....the OP's wife isn't approving of this idea (so maybe he needs to figure out another hobby?).
     
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  7. Tropical Wilds

    Tropical Wilds Lord, beer me strength...

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    Whenever I think I might want another kid, I think back to those years where you try to find sitters to watch the kids and the drama that leaving the house without then always caused and I think “you know, I’m good.” Lol!
     
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  8. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    Good points. I, personally, can't imagine sitting in one position like that (with not much freedom to move any other way) for a long period of time (but I have torn ACLs in both knees).

    I'm suspecting you're right about the expectations being different than the actual experience would be.
     
  9. Tropical Wilds

    Tropical Wilds Lord, beer me strength...

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    You’d be surprised, the movement isn’t as restrictive as you think, but I hear you. You’re talking to somebody who gave up kayaking because of Crohn’s Disease and (ironically enough) because we had 3 young kids and it wasn’t feasible anymore.
     
  10. RedPonyDriver

    RedPonyDriver Professional Pot Stirrer

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    A kayak is utterly useless for deep sea fishing...like there ain't no way you're taking that thing a few miles offshore.
     
  11. Endeavourer

    Endeavourer Well-Known Member

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    My suggestion was not blithe or simplistic.

    It is much easier to find babysitters than it is to live day in and day out in a poor, or worse, a miserable, marriage.
     
  12. Tropical Wilds

    Tropical Wilds Lord, beer me strength...

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    Geeze, talk about overdramatic... If the only thing holding you together is the ability to offload Kids and go out just yourselves, your marriage has bigger issues than kayaking.
     
  13. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    No, sometimes it isn't. And I'll thank you not to tell me what's "easier" in my real life without knowing a scrap about me.

    Now I wouldn't describe my marriage as poor or miserable. But it's definitely gone through times of strain where a babysitter would have made a world of difference and wasn't possible. Parents in that kind of situation need compassion and support, not to be told that if they could only do something you've decided is the magic answer, all would be well.
     
  14. Endeavourer

    Endeavourer Well-Known Member

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    I am confused by the tone of your response.

    I hadn't offered any advice to you or about your life in this thread.

    All of my comments are framed towards the facts presented by the OP, for the OP, who is experiencing a problem in his marriage that he's about to make much worse if he doesn't reconsider.
     
  15. akmom

    akmom Newbie

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    New to the thread. I don't think it's selfish. My husband made that same request just a few years ago and I suggested he rent one instead, but otherwise told him to have fun. It was a disaster but he still had fun.

    My mom was one of those clingy wives that dictated my dad's every move and he just resented her for it. I think it takes a certain amount of maturity to entertain yourself for a day and accept that your spouse is their own person too. I think some people forget that.
     
  16. Tropical Wilds

    Tropical Wilds Lord, beer me strength...

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    I’m still waiting on hearing how old the kids are. If this is one of those situations where he’s heading out, leaving her with toddlers for an entire day, I’m getting where she’s at. The issue isn’t “what will she do to entertain herself,” because she’ll certainly have her hands full. If the kids are older, as long as his trips aren’t on a day where she’s working and trying to watch the kids simultaneously, the circumstances are very different, as is the solution.
     
  17. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    No, your comments are generalised, though, and make assumptions about what is or is not the case for the OP and for others who might be reading along.

    Marriage isn't a one-size-fits-all reality. The same advice can't be given to everyone as if they were confronting the same circumstances, or as if they can all do the same thing. Fifteen hours a week meeting one another's emotional needs? Do you have any idea how unrealistic this is for many couples who may not have fifteen hours a week "free" from basic obligations? Do you know how much this is likely to make some people feel guilty for circumstances beyond their control? Isn't it better to help people think creatively about what's possible for them, rather than tell them what they "should" be doing without taking their circumstances into account?

    That's what I find so frustrating.
     
  18. Endeavourer

    Endeavourer Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't agree with you more, which is why I never base my advice on personal philosophies or how I think things "should" be. Researching what has actually proven to make relationships work has become a passion of mine.

    One of my favorite sources of information is Dr. Harley, who studied 10,000's of marriages to identify patterns in happy marriages and patterns in unhappy marriages. He built a marriage ministry around advising couples based on what his research had proved to work. In his experience, it's 100% successful when both spouses make a commitment to follow it. He was inspired to find out what actually DOES work to keep marriages together when his efforts at traditional marriage counseling techniques were failing.

    How Dr. Harley Learned to Save Marriages

    Fifteen hours per week of undivided time was a common theme of marriages that worked and a common missing element to marriages that didn't. He explains it in a way that makes so much sense:

    "Before you were married, spending time alone with each other was your highest priority. You probably spent the majority of your leisure time together, and the time you spent together was probably the most enjoyable part of every week. You tried to talk to each other every day. If you couldn't be with each other face-to-face, you talked on the telephone, maybe for hours. And when you were together, you gave each other your undivided attention. "

    "The solution to [falling out of love] in marriage is remarkably simple. It doesn't require entirely new skills, or a remaking of a couple's ability to care for each other. All it takes is going back to what it was that created the love a couple has for each other in the first place -- heartfelt affection, intimate conversation, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment*. These intimate emotional needs, above all else, must be met in marriage if a romantic relationship is to be sustained."

    *Dr. Harley does not advocate premarital sex and has written a book about how harmful it is. These two paragraphs thread together the concept but I copied them from separate locations so do not misunderstand my cut & paste collection to be referring to him condoning sexual fulfillment while dating.

    "It's incredible how many couples have tried to talk me out of their spending more time together. They begin by trying to convince me that it's impossible. Then they go on to the argument that it's impractical. But in the end, they usually agree that without time for undivided attention, they cannot re-create the love they once had for each other. "

    In more detail, here:
    Caring for Children Means Caring for Each Other

    The concept of time together also affects another important aspect of marriage:
    The question of the ages: How can a husband receive the sex he needs in marriage? by Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr.

    I personally follow all of the advice I give. I have a marriage that's unimaginable to most: a beautiful, romantic deeply loving marriage to my best friend and soulmate.
     
  19. Endeavourer

    Endeavourer Well-Known Member

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    Also, as to finding babysitters:

    I have a lot of children, many of which are very close in age. You may have heard of Irish twins - I affectionately refer to three of mine as "Irish triplets". It was very hard to find babysitters who would be willing to take care of so many children, especially during the time when three of them were in diapers and bottles simultaneously. However, I had to work full time so I had no choice but to keep digging and become very creative about seeking after referrals so that my working hours were covered with babysitters I could trust to be taking good care of my children. I'm not "blithely" suggesting something that I think is easy. I know it's not easy.
     
  20. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Well, what it looks like to me is that you make exactly the same recommendations to everybody; follow this formula and it will work.

    I'm suggesting that that doesn't take into account the realities of some people's lives, and that it's better to listen and explore rather than just tell everyone the same thing. And maybe realise that some people won't be able to do what you think is ideal, and will need to modify their approach accordingly.
     
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