Do you get the Holy Spirit before or after repentance?

[Natsumi Lam]

So often our perception is weighted this or that way.
I see in the simpke that it is by tge spirit of God that a person is drawn to the Son Jesus..then upon repentance is enabeld to recieve the Holy Spirit ..IN to them .

In contrast the enemy decieves people into harm and trickery drawing them to sin and opening them via deception to recieve most UNholy spirits .
The difference is obvious.
The gospel makes the will and intent of God Openly.
The adversary uses lie and trickery

How does that apply to my statement? Acts is in the Bible and details these instances i provided.

 

[Alithis]

How does that apply to my statement? Acts is in the Bible and details these instances i provided.

Haha..i got distracted midpost ended up sending it incompleted.
In short i was agreeing with you.

But there is a distinct difference between being effected by the external workings of the breath of God and recieving him Into oneself

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Haha..i got distracted midpost ended up sending it incompleted.
In short i was agreeing with you.

But there is a distinct difference between being effected by the external workings of the breath of God and recieving him Into oneself

Ah ok

 

[Romans 8]

I believe the Holy Spirit turns a person towards repentance but the Holy Spirit is received after repentance.

I agree with this. For the people that voted they received the Holy Spirit before they repented, I wonder if they just had an emotional experience of some kind. I do not think it's possible to receive the Holy Spirit without repentance. John the Baptist told the Pharisees to take a hike when they requested water baptism. He told them to confess and repent first. That was water baptism, not Spirit baptism. There's a certain order that's generally followed. Spirit baptism can precede water baptism but not repentance, there's no getting around repentance.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Thanks for all replies in the thread! I thought more votes would be on "first receiveving the Holy Spirit". I believe the Holy Spirit turns a person towards repentance but the Holy Spirit is received after repentance.

Acts 2 provides examples of before and after repentance.

 

[Romans 8]

Acts 2 provides examples of before and after repentance.

This is Acts 2:38

And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

There is no baptism of the Spirit before repentance.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

This is Acts 2:38

And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

There is no baptism of the Spirit before repentance.

What about when John jumped in Elizabeth and she was filled with the Holy Spirit? Jesus was still in Mary and wasnt born yet.

 

[Romans 8]

What about when John jumped in Elizabeth and she was filled with the Holy Spirit? Jesus was still in Mary and wasnt born yet.

I'm sorry, I don't understand your question. The Holy Spirit was not inside of anyone until after Jesus was glorified.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Not true...

I'm sorry, I don't understand your question. The Holy Spirit was not inside of anyone until after Jesus was glorified.

Not true

Luke 1:41-44 King James Version (KJV)
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Ps 51:11

Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me


Even David had the HS.

 

[Romans 8]

Not true...



Not true

Luke 1:41-44 King James Version (KJV)
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Ps 51:11

Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me


Even David had the HS.

So did Samson, and Moses, and many of the Old Testament Jews. The difference after Jesus was glorified is that He put His Spirit in us to remain there until our physical death. There is a difference. Jesus called it being reborn in the Spirit. No one was reborn in the Spirit until after Jesus was glorified. Old Testament people had the Holy Spirit's assistance before Jesus lived, but they could not be reborn until Jesus went up to the right hand of God. When we are reborn in the Spirit a transformation takes place. We slowly start to become like Christ. We grow in His gifts, and we evolve spiritually which is evidenced by our fruit.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

So did Samson, and Moses, and many of the Old Testament Jews. The difference after Jesus was glorified is that He put His Spirit in us to remain there until our physical death. There is a difference. Jesus called it being reborn in the Spirit. No one was reborn in the Spirit until after Jesus was glorified. Old Testament people had the Holy Spirit's assistance before Jesus lived, but they could not be reborn until Jesus went up to the right hand of God. When we are reborn in the Spirit a transformation takes place. We slowly start to become like Christ. We grow in His gifts, and we evolve spiritually which is evidenced by our fruit.

How do you know for 100% sure Elizabeth didnt remain with the Holy Spirit infilling until her death?

 

[Romans 8]

How do you know for 100% sure Elizabeth didnt remain with the Holy Spirit infilling until her death?

Well, it's not really the point. The point is that the experience of the Holy Spirit was very different before and after Jesus' resurrection. The Spirit was "on" someone before Pentecost, and during/after Pentecost he was "in someone" instead, despite the English description of Elizabeth. Confusing, I know.

Maybe someone else can explain this better than me...

 

[PanDeVida]

Please also tell why you hold to your view. Christ love!

/P

The Holy Spirit is received at Baptism, then Lost through sin and regain the Holy Spirit in you through the Sacrament of penance. Therefore Once saved always saved is not true but a lie of Satan.

Pan De Vida

 

[Alithis]

Well, it's not really the point. The point is that the experience of the Holy Spirit was very different before and after Jesus' resurrection. The Spirit was "on" someone before Pentecost, and during/after Pentecost he was "in someone" instead, despite the English description of Elizabeth. Confusing, I know.

Maybe someone else can explain this better than me...

There are a number of "exceptions to the rule" In scripture.
This must never give rise to making the exception the rule.

I.e. the thief on the cross vs water baptism.
Elizabeth recieving the holy Spirit.. Which we still do not know for sure was in the manner of the day of penticost .

 

[Romans 8]

There are a number of "exceptions to the rule" In scripture.
This must never give rise to making the exception the rule.

I.e. the thief on the cross vs water baptism.
Elizabeth recieving the holy Spirit.. Which we still do not know for sure was in the manner of the day of penticost .

Yeah, I did some more reading today prompted by Natsumi Lam's posts and of course she's right about the filling of the Holy Spirit. I just don't think He was in the Old Testament "heroes" in the same fashion as He is in us today as we have a new covenant and a new Baptism. John's Baptism was into repentance, but today's baptism is into Christ. I don't think Romans 8 was possible before Christ, ie living by the Spirit of life vs sin and death. It's not that important really but it's interesting to think about.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

The Holy Spirit is received at Baptism, then Lost through sin and regain the Holy Spirit in you through the Sacrament of penance. Therefore Once saved always saved is not true but a lie of Satan.

Pan De Vida

Where is that in the bible?

 

[Natsumi Lam]

The Holy Spirit is received at Baptism, then Lost through sin and regain the Holy Spirit in you through the Sacrament of penance. Therefore Once saved always saved is not true but a lie of Satan.

Pan De Vida

What does the "losing of the Holy Spirit" have to do with "losing" your salvation?

There are people who are saved that have not experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit who are saved.

Are they really not saved?

 

[Alithis]

Yeah, I did some more reading today prompted by Natsumi Lam's posts and of course she's right about the filling of the Holy Spirit. I just don't think He was in the Old Testament "heroes" in the same fashion as He is in us today as we have a new covenant and a new Baptism. John's Baptism was into repentance, but today's baptism is into Christ. I don't think Romans 8 was possible before Christ, ie living by the Spirit of life vs sin and death. It's not that important really but it's interesting to think about.

yes and there is one point to note on elizabeth being filled with the holy Spirit -i never saw this until i was reading your reply haha -love that
John the baptizer said ..one comes after me ....and he will baptize you with the holy Spirit ..
john was in the womb of elizabeth 6 mnths before Jesus was in the womb of mary ... the one that came after him.. baptized elizabeth in the holy Spirit and in a way not experienced by any ever before in scripture because - before - jesus had not come . but now he was in the world . he was later to be birthed forth .. but he was still now in the world . , -just a very cool thought .

 

[Romans 8]

john was in the womb of elizabeth 6 mnths before Jesus was in the womb of mary ... the one that came after him.. baptized elizabeth in the holy Spirit and in a way not experienced by any ever before in scripture because - before - jesus had not come . but now he was in the world . he was later to be birthed forth .. but he was still now in the world . , -just a very cool thought .

Yeah, the point I am trying to make is that nobody received the Holy Spirit before Jesus was crucified, in the same way as they received him after Jesus was resurrected. For whatever reason, Jesus had to complete his mission here on earth before this was possible. That's why Jesus did not baptize the apostles in the Holy Spirit until Pentecost. John said, "He will baptize you in Spirit and Fire", and He does to this day. Jesus is the baptizer. Jesus did not baptize a single soul with water or Spirit while he was in the flesh.
There was a dramatic difference in the apostles while they were with Jesus, and then after Pentecost. After Pentecost, they were able to do things they simply could not previous to receiving the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit brings power. Power to preach (brings words to the mouth), power to heal, power to witness (abolishes fear of man), etc. Paul was stoned by villagers until he was presumed dead. Paul got up, walked to the next city, and began preaching the next day. That is some power!

 

[Alithis]

Yeah, the point I am trying to make is that nobody received the Holy Spirit before Jesus was crucified, in the same way as they received him after Jesus was resurrected. For whatever reason, Jesus had to complete his mission here on earth before this was possible. That's why Jesus did not baptize the apostles in the Holy Spirit until Pentecost. John said, "He will baptize you in Spirit and Fire", and He does to this day. Jesus is the baptizer. Jesus did not baptize a single soul with water or Spirit while he was in the flesh.
There was a dramatic difference in the apostles while they were with Jesus, and then after Pentecost. After Pentecost, they were able to do things they simply could not previous to receiving the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit brings power. Power to preach (brings words to the mouth), power to heal, power to witness (abolishes fear of man), etc. Paul was stoned by villagers until he was presumed dead. Paul got up, walked to the next city, and began preaching the next day. That is some power!

It is indeed.

One thing im beginning to susoect very strongly is the term ... And fire...
Fire always speaks of testing and prooving through purification.

After being baptised in the Holy spirit
Many there on that day were later lead through a baptism of intense persecutions thereby proving thier faith...
Not a popular interpretation of those words....