Do You Follow the Teachings of Messiah?

[HARK!]

Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh. 3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh Philhil3:2&3

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

(CLV) Ro 2:25
For circumcision, indeed, is benefiting if you should be putting law into practice, yet if you should be a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

Genesis 17 (CLV)

9 And saying is the Elohim to Abraham, "And you shall keep My covenant, you and your seed after you for their generations. 10 This is My covenant, which you shall keep between Me and you and your seed after you for their generations: Circumcise to yourselves every male. 11 And circumcised shall you be in the flesh of your foreskin. And it comes to be for a sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 And a son of eight days shall be circumcised by you, every male of your generations, homeborn or acquired with money from any foreigner, he who is not of your seed. 13 With circumcision shall be circumcised the homeborn and the one acquired with your money. And My covenant comes to be in your flesh for a covenant eonian (FOREVER)

 

[HARK!]

Which goes to show, if you want to ignore, or explain away the plain words of the bible it is not so hard to do

By letting scripture interpret scripture?

Do you believe that the bible contradicts itself?

 

[not under law]

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

(CLV) Ro 2:25
For circumcision, indeed, is benefiting if you should be putting law into practice, yet if you should be a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

Genesis 17 (CLV)

9 And saying is the Elohim to Abraham, "And you shall keep My covenant, you and your seed after you for their generations. 10 This is My covenant, which you shall keep between Me and you and your seed after you for their generations: Circumcise to yourselves every male. 11 And circumcised shall you be in the flesh of your foreskin. And it comes to be for a sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 And a son of eight days shall be circumcised by you, every male of your generations, homeborn or acquired with money from any foreigner, he who is not of your seed. 13 With circumcision shall be circumcised the homeborn and the one acquired with your money. And My covenant comes to be in your flesh for a covenant eonian (FOREVER)

Paul is crystal clear on the subject of circumcision in the verses I quoted to you. Your attempt to overturn his plain statements with exegesis is not a good idea.

 

[not under law]

By letting scripture interpret scripture?

Do you believe that the bible contradicts itself?

Show me a scripture where Gentiles are told they must be circumcised under the new covenant.

 

[pasifika]

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

(CLV) Ro 2:25
For circumcision, indeed, is benefiting if you should be putting law into practice, yet if you should be a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

Genesis 17 (CLV)

9 And saying is the Elohim to Abraham, "And you shall keep My covenant, you and your seed after you for their generations. 10 This is My covenant, which you shall keep between Me and you and your seed after you for their generations: Circumcise to yourselves every male. 11 And circumcised shall you be in the flesh of your foreskin. And it comes to be for a sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 And a son of eight days shall be circumcised by you, every male of your generations, homeborn or acquired with money from any foreigner, he who is not of your seed. 13 With circumcision shall be circumcised the homeborn and the one acquired with your money. And My covenant comes to be in your flesh for a covenant eonian (FOREVER)

Galatians 5:6...For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor Uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through Love...

 

[HARK!]

Elizabeth and Zacheriah were concerned this was not including perfectly upholding the moral side of the law. Other rules, regulations, precepts yes.

Definition of precept
1 : a command or principle intended especially as a general rule of action
Definition of PRECEPT

Definition of statute
1 : a law enacted by the legislative branch of a government
Definition of STATUTE

 

[HARK!]

Show me a scripture where Gentiles are told they must be circumcised under the new covenant.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

Yahshua was commissioned for the lost sheep of Israel. YHWH's covenant is with Israel.

The same was with Moses. The Egyptians that followed him became Hebrews.

Hebrew means to cross over.

There is one law for the native and the sojourner.

YHWH did not make covenant with the nations. We are all to be one in the Father in Yahshua. A house divided won't stand.

 

[not under law]

Definition of precept
1 : a command or principle intended especially as a general rule of action
Definition of PRECEPT

Definition of statute
1 : a law enacted by the legislative branch of a government
Definition of STATUTE

Well if you want to believe neither elizabeth or zechariah dwelt on any impure thoughts, even as teenagers that's up to you. They always perfectly without slip loved all their neighbours, throughout their whole lives, you may. So neither of them needed a saviour from sin in your view. They did not need Jesus. Too much head theology can bring a lack of discernement

 

[not under law]

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

Yahshua was commissioned for the lost sheep of Israel. YHWH's covenant is with Israel.

The same was with Moses. The Egyptians that followed him became Hebrews.

Hebrew means to cross over.

There is one law for the native and the sojourner.

YHWH did not make covenant with the nations. We are all to be one in the Father in Yahshua. A house divided won't stand.

OK, so you do not have a scripture that states Gentiles must be circumcised under the new covenant. You start with a set position, then when confronted with plain biblical statements that oppose your view, you seek exegesis to overturn them and call it scripture interpreting scripture. I understand

 

[HARK!]

OK, so you do not have a scripture that states Gentiles must be circumcised under the new covenant.

Right, and you don't have scripture that says that gentiles are in covenant.

 

[not under law]

Right, and you don't have scripture that says that gentiles are in covenant.

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

 

[pasifika]

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

Yahshua was commissioned for the lost sheep of Israel. YHWH's covenant is with Israel.

The same was with Moses. The Egyptians that followed him became Hebrews.

Hebrew means to cross over.

There is one law for the native and the sojourner.

YHWH did not make covenant with the nations. We are all to be one in the Father in Yahshua. A house divided won't stand.

Hello HARK, but not even the Apostles of Christ preach a physical circumcision for the Gentiles...

 

[not under law]

Right, and you don't have scripture that says that gentiles are in covenant.

Paul wriitng to Gentiles:
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3

You could ask, whether many israelites are in covenant, they insist on a law written in ink

 

[HARK!]

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

When they 'cross over' (definition of Hebrew) and enter covenant they are part of Israel. They are no longer Pagan gentiles (goyim). I don't understand why this is so difficult for you to grasp. They're reborn. The old person is dead.

There is no covenant with the dead.

 

[not under law]

When they 'cross over' (definition of Hebrew) and enter covenant they are part of Israel. They are no longer Pagan gentiles (goyim). I don't understand why this is so difficult for you to grasp. They're reborn. The old person is dead.

There is no covenant with the dead.

As you said to me, you stick with doctrine I will stick with the words of the bible. It is too difficult for me to let you try and overturn the plain words of scripture on this matter written by Paul-calling it scripture interpreting scripture

 

[HARK!]

As you said to me, you stick with doctrine I will stick with the words of the bible.

Ok I can back up every word of this with scripture. I'm too tired to do it tonight. It's clear that I need to start a thread on this subject. I'm saving my last post to file.

Good night, and shalom.

 

[not under law]

Ok I can back up every word of this with scripture.

Good night, and shalom.

So you can find scripture to contradict scripture with your exegesis of it.
Good night, and God bless

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

I presented the CLV because it is a literal, word for word, translation.

(CLV) Lk 1:6
Now they were both just in front of God, going in all the precepts and just statutes of the Lord, blameless.

I use the King James brother, but even in your translation it still says going which implies that they are continuing in his precepts. It does not say that they were without sin their whole lives, just that they are now(at this time) continuing without sin. And also it says Now they were both just before God it does not say that they have always been without sin. That is something you are reading into that is not there brother.

 

[Dkh587]

Paul is crystal clear on the subject of circumcision in the verses I quoted to you. Your attempt to overturn his plain statements with exegesis is not a good idea.

Eisegesis*

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Timothy wasn't a jew. If he was a Jew he would have been circumcised on the 8th day. Scripture clearly says that his father wasn't a jew.

He was a half jew and was compelled by the Jews to be circumcised, that is what is written brother. Why they waited could easily have been because he was only a half Jew, but we know that the Jews compelling full blooded gentiles into circumcision was occurring a lot around that time since they wanted them to follow the Law of Moses and keep their Laws and to take them away from their new found freedom in Christ. So that this occurred at this time makes sense, they did not want this New sect gaining more power then them, so they sought to Judaize everyone they could.