do you believe once saved always saved?

[mikev]

The Bible doesn’t say, “Once saved always saved.” But it does say in Romans 10, verse 9, “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

If that is how to get saved, then if someone believes you can get unsaved, do you think that in following Romans 10:9 again you would get saved again? I don’t think so.

We ought to remember that the Scriptures say, in both Ephesians 2:5 and 8, that we are saved by grace. Verse 8 makes it clear that it is not of ourselves, but rather a gift from God.

Salvation is a gift. Eternal life is a gift. A gift is freely given; otherwise it is a wage that is worked for. In accepting Jesus as Lord and believing that God raised him from the dead we are saved, given eternal life. (Whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.”)

If you cold lose it then it would not be eternal or everlasting. Once you have it, you have it; that’s why you cannot repent again and get it again. Our salvation, being saved is a free gift offered to “whosoever.”

The Scriptures make it very plain that it is not of our works, lest any man should boast. Rather, salvation is available because of the completed work of Christ – he did the work for us. Now, it is up to us live the life we have been given to live.

 

[mont974x4]

I believe in eternal security.

Just as I cannot be good enough to save myself, I cannot be good enough to keep myself saved. It's all about Christ.

 

[WuAgent]

correct, if you confess jesus and believe he was raised from the dead you will be saved. but then you actually have to live out that belief by continuing in obedience to God. you dont go through the step and then go right back to your life of not caring about God. those who disobey God and never repent and turn away from such a thing dont believe in him...right?

we ARE saved by grace and that grace is jesus dying on the cross for our sins offering us the opportunity of salvation and eternal life. that is the gift. the opportunity for salvation and for eternal life.

if you die or experience the rapture while living a life that in fellowship with God you will obtain eternal life which indeed you will not lose. but while you are alive you must continue to believe God by trusting and obeying him.

again, you confuse works with obedience. jesus healing the sick, giving sight to the blind, feeding the 5,000, and raising people from the dead were works, but he was doing these under the obedience and the power of the Father. same thing with paul going around preaching the gospel and writing letters to various churches to encourage them and going out and meeting with them working with them. they did works in obedience to God. this was the calling on their lives and they were obedient to it.

peep game:

romans 11:17-24

17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. 22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!


so much for "once grafted in(saved) always grafted in(saved)"

 

[Rhema1999]

Ok this is my first post so be patient!

I think the debate arises from a lack of understanding what happens when you get saved. If you understand what happens then it answers the question if you can get unsaved.

Hebrews tells us that Jesus became the first born of a new race of people. The second Adam. Before he got born again there was no entrance into heaven due to sin.

He said when we reciev a new born again spirit then we can enter into heaven and "be saved"

As Ephesians says we are saved by grace not of works or anything we can do or earn it is a fre gift of God.

At that point we have a new born again spirit, now we can live a very defeated life if we don't learn the word and how to live a victorious life but the only requirement to get into heaven is to be born again and have that new born again spirit that is covered by the blood of Jesus.

The scripture talks about a second death from which there is no return but it doesn't go into explicit reasons other than denying the Holy Spirit. I think this is a conscience awarness of the new birth, experiencing it and then making a conscience choice to rebuke it.

Back slidding and falling into sin is not denying the Lord it is just losing your footing and giving into flesh and the way of the world. I don't think it will keep you from heaven, it might get you there quicker but I don't think its losing your salvation just your walk.

(my spell check is mal functioning forgive the mis spells)

 

[WuAgent]

yeah, falling into sin isnt denying the lord if you repent and turn back. if you dont then it is.

 

[SoundCard]

Ok this is my first post so be patient!

I think the debate arises from a lack of understanding what happens when you get saved. If you understand what happens then it answers the question if you can get unsaved.

Hebrews tells us that Jesus became the first born of a new race of people. The second Adam. Before he got born again there was no entrance into heaven due to sin.

He said when we reciev a new born again spirit then we can enter into heaven and "be saved"

As Ephesians says we are saved by grace not of works or anything we can do or earn it is a fre gift of God.

At that point we have a new born again spirit, now we can live a very defeated life if we don't learn the word and how to live a victorious life but the only requirement to get into heaven is to be born again and have that new born again spirit that is covered by the blood of Jesus.

The scripture talks about a second death from which there is no return but it doesn't go into explicit reasons other than denying the Holy Spirit. I think this is a conscience awarness of the new birth, experiencing it and then making a conscience choice to rebuke it.

Back slidding and falling into sin is not denying the Lord it is just losing your footing and giving into flesh and the way of the world. I don't think it will keep you from heaven, it might get you there quicker but I don't think its losing your salvation just your walk.

(my spell check is mal functioning forgive the mis spells)

But to deny the Holy Spirit is to reject Christ, isn't it? Since He's the one that sends the Helper to us.

 

[milesgonepast]

I can't answer the question of whether or not once saved always saved. But I was saved at the age of 16, a time where I was more faithful than ever to God. Over the years my faith had wavered this way and that, and many questions were raised with no one to help me.

After much time has passed, I Am still a believer, and on that day I really did feel that I was saved, no matter how much I try to waver my thoughts now, I know there is NO CHANCE that I would or even COULD turn back.

My answer to the question is maybe you will know when you are saved simply by well.... knowing it, probably through Jesus and our Lord.

I think someone mentioned this earlier or something along the lines, but what has to be first asked is what constitutes a person being saved in the first place, and from that it is clear as the day is blue.

It was a interesting question, but I think (yup I think) that continually speaking about this may actually be a little pointless, only in the sense that the person who opened this thread will certainly know the day they are saved possibly the same way I knew it. I just did, and I think that feeling is something that the Lord put into me, and is how I am certain of it. In time I believe god reveals it all to us and answers our questions, we just have to be patient. Patience is a virtue of the wise right

 

[SoundCard]

I'm mostly convinced because of the passage in Romans 9.

Romans 9:14-18 NIV
14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."[f] 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."[g] 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

Since no one can make God do one thing or another, as we are the ones subject to His will, I can't find reason to say that if I'm faithful or unfaithful after coming to Christ, it will insure or defeat my salvation, since it was God who saved me in the first place, if you get my meaning. Though I'm not saying "all are saved by default" and that the unrepentant will be saved, since that's simply not true, I'm just saying that once we are a new creation and the Holy Spirit sent to us as a deposit for the coming of Christ, I don't see man's ability being the deciding factor in it.

 

[WuAgent]

^^i already addressed that scripture.

if you guys want to ignore the word of God in order to appease your doctrinal agenda and your feelings then that is your choice. i have thoroughly laid out in all my posts in this thread how "once saved always saved" does not align with scripture.

 

[mont974x4]

People can live in fear if they wish. People can pretend salvation is a work of their own if they wish. I prefer the truth in His Word. Eternal security is biblical.

Joh 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
Joh 10:28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
Joh 10:29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

 

[holyrokker]

People can live in fear if they wish. People can pretend salvation is a work of their own if they wish. I prefer the truth in His Word.

These comments show that you do not understand the viewpoint you claim to oppose.
I do not live in fear. I live in peace in Christ.

 

[mont974x4]

My comment is based on my experience with people who follow a more Wesleyan theology and others who diminish the grace of God by denying His authority in the matters of salvation....mainly the belief that you can lose your salvation. Sure there are many who believe it is a very difficult thing to happen, but far to many walk about in fear thinking that if they die while some sin remains unconfessed then they are condemned to hell.

If you live in true peace in Christ you would believe in eternal security. It is He who saves us, and it is He who keeps us. We cannoty save ourselves and we cannot keep ourselves saved.


1 John 5:18 We know that no one who is born of God sins (verb tense signifies continuously); but He who was born of God (Jesus) keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
Rom 14:4
4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

I actually have about 6 pages of notes on this issue.

 

[C. Davis]

Many Christians are divided on this subject because there seems to be scripture that supports both sides. However, since the Holy Spirit is the author of all scripture [2 Tim 3:16], it cannot contradict. So....which side really agrees with all scripture?

Let me state first that I believe OSAS is the correct position that is presented in the Bible. I will offer a variety of reasons for my thoughts:

[1] Most would agree that "salvation" in the context of our souls is equal to "eternal life" [John 3:16 & many others]. "Temporary eternal life" makes no sense. John 3:36 tells me [in the present tense] that those who believe have eternal life. It is a spiritual life that we believers have now [Rom 8:9], not something that we receive at physical death.

[2] Scripture plainly referring to eternal life teaches security [John 10:28-29].

[3] Scripture that seems to refer to eternal life, but does not do so plainly, is what is misunderstood as teaching you can lose you salvation. Hebrews 6:4-8 is a classic example of this. The terms used here would make one "assume" salvation is in view, but notice how the plain terms "saved' or "eternal life" are not used, as they are in John 10:28. If you study the two sides of this debate, you will find this pattern of terms used that "assume" eternal life , but do not plainly declare as much are the portions that seem to contradict OSAS.
PS: Hebrews 6:9 separates those who are saved from those described in verses 4-8.

[4] What about those who profess salvation and appear to reject it later? They were never saved in the first place, or they would have continued [1 John 2:19, James 2:17, Matt 12:33].


[5] Salvation is a work of the Holy Spirit [John 1:12, 3:8, 1 Cor 12:13, Titus 3:5] Our belief triggers the Holy Spirit to save us. So, you see, salvation is not something we have done, it is a something done for us because we believed. It is a gift from God [Romans 6:23] and gifts from God are irrevocable [Rom 11:29].

Many more things could be presented and have been presented supporting both sides of this debate.
The bottom line is: Both sides cannot be right. Therefore, I suggest that all the scriptures that support each viewpoint be listed and compared. Which list plainly refers to salvation and eternal life and which one is "assumed" to apply to salvation and eternal life.



Chuck

 

[spiritwarrior37]

Luke Chapter 15
11And he said, A certain man had two sons:

12And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
25Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
26And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
29And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. 32It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

This a wonderful illustration of eternal security that Jesus Himself used.
And also consider this;

τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ πίστεως: καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν, θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον:"

Can you tell me what this means?

"ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι"

"have been saved"

Saved, participle, perfect tense passive voice.

However, when it is preceeded by "ἐστε"

The additional verb form "este" of the verb to be in the present tense is added to the perfect participle "sesosmenoi" = "you have been saved" to doubly emphasize ongoing present results of being completely saved in the past. In other words since according to Eph 2:8 we are completely saved unto eternal life in the past, which by its very nature is eternal; and since we are to expect ongoing results of being saved in the present, and since we always live in the present; then we can assuredly know that salvation is guaranteed for the future.

I was saved at a point in the past, and I am now currently being saved, and at a point in the future, I will be saved.

God bless

 

[Memento Mori]

No. I believe that when Jesus told us to "remain in [His] love" John 15:9, it's suggested that we can leave His love. In verse 10 He tells us that when we obey Him we will remain in His love. So I think we can "fall from grace" so to speak.

 

[WuAgent]

so you belive in OSAS?...k.

Many Christians are divided on this subject because there seems to be scripture that supports both sides. However, since the Holy Spirit is the author of all scripture [2 Tim 3:16], it cannot contradict. So....which side really agrees with all scripture?

Let me state first that I believe OSAS is the correct position that is presented in the Bible. I will offer a variety of reasons for my thoughts:

[1] Most would agree that "salvation" in the context of our souls is equal to "eternal life" [John 3:16 & many others]. "Temporary eternal life" makes no sense. John 3:36 tells me [in the present tense] that those who believe have eternal life. It is a spiritual life that we believers have now [Rom 8:9], not something that we receive at physical death.

john 3:16 and john 3:36 refer to those who believe. if your sinning, disobeying God then you dont believe in God. romans 8:9 refers to not being controlled by the sinful nature but then it says "if the spirit of God lives in you". when i personally fell away from God and was endulging in various sinful habits for 10 years the spirit of God was not living in me in those 10 years because if it was i wouldnt have been gratifying the desires of the sinful nature(Galations 5:16). but that doesnt mean the spirit turned its back on me. it continued to call be back to itself but i had to make a decision to respond and repent of my sinful ways.

the spirit could not have been living in me because if it was i wouldnt have been controlled by the sinful nature for a decade. yet not only did the holy spirit not turn its back on me he restored me to be even better than i was when i first got saved. now tell me, what would have happened if would've continued to walk away from God and never repent of my sins? could i have kept on living the way i was living and still receive salvation?

[2] Scripture plainly referring to eternal life teaches security [John 10:28-29].

who exactly are the "sheep"? the sheep are the ones who live in obedience and trust to jesus christ. those who dont do this are not his sheep. yes, its true that no one will snatch the sheep out of christs hand, not even sin, which is why when the sheep do sin(stumble) they can repent of their sins and be back in God's grace. but if they dont repent, well....

[3] Scripture that seems to refer to eternal life, but does not do so plainly, is what is misunderstood as teaching you can lose you salvation. Hebrews 6:4-8 is a classic example of this. The terms used here would make one "assume" salvation is in view, but notice how the plain terms "saved' or "eternal life" are not used, as they are in John 10:28. If you study the two sides of this debate, you will find this pattern of terms used that "assume" eternal life , but do not plainly declare as much are the portions that seem to contradict OSAS.
PS: Hebrews 6:9 separates those who are saved from those described in verses 4-8.

what about hebrews 12? why would it say that through faith and patience we inherit what is promised and not god's sovoreignty? arent those "works"?

faith without works is dead

read james 2:14-26

[4] What about those who profess salvation and appear to reject it later? They were never saved in the first place, or they would have continued [1 John 2:19, James 2:17, Matt 12:33].

dont see why you used john 2:19..?

i got saved, did well with God for about a year, and then fell away and was unfruitful for 10 years. was i not saved in the first place? and if i wasnt why did God restore me?

have you read the story of David?


[5] Salvation is a work of the Holy Spirit [John 1:12, 3:8, 1 Cor 12:13, Titus 3:5] Our belief triggers the Holy Spirit to save us. So, you see, salvation is not something we have done, it is a something done for us because we believed. It is a gift from God [Romans 6:23] and gifts from God are irrevocable [Rom 11:29].

you just said that "our belief" triggers the holy spirit. why is our belief the trigger and not God's soverienty? then you say its done for us because WE BELIEVED. "believed" is an action word. an action we take, a decision we make. what is your definition of "belief" or "believed" in this context because i guess its different from mine.

and you are right, salvation is thw work of the holy spirit. the spirit gives us the ability to choose to walk the path of christ, without the spirit we have no choice but to sin(romans 8:5-8).



Many more things could be presented and have been presented supporting both sides of this debate.
The bottom line is: Both sides cannot be right. Therefore, I suggest that all the scriptures that support each viewpoint be listed and compared. Which list plainly refers to salvation and eternal life and which one is "assumed" to apply to salvation and eternal life.



Chuck

when one accepts jesus as savior he recives the holy spirit. when that person is living in trust and obedience to God the spirit lives within them. when they sin they grieve the holy spirit and he ceases to live within them but it does not abandon them but calls out to them to repent and turn back.

what do you think jesus was saying when he said he had sheep that were not of this sheep pen? (john 10:16)

why did paul say that he handed two of his companions over to satan to be taught not to blaspheme? (1 tim 1:19-20)

hey, why did paul right a letter to the corinthians at all? they were participating in all types of sin even though he writes in his preamble that the church of corinth was one of those wo were sanctified in christ jesus and called to be holy. paul should've just realized they werent saved anyway, that they didnt belong to God in the first place, and kept it moving.

these things happened because the holy spirit cannot tolerate sin which is why he leaves those who do so but that doesnt mean he does not make every effort to win them back. still, some will answer the calling of God to repentence and some wont.

 

[SoundCard]

so you belive in OSAS?...k.



when one accepts jesus as savior he recives the holy spirit. when that person is living in trust and obedience to God the spirit lives within them. when they sin they grieve the holy spirit and he ceases to live within them but it does not abandon them but calls out to them to repent and turn back.

what do you think jesus was saying when he said he had sheep that were not of this sheep pen? (john 10:16)

why did paul say that he handed two of his companions over to satan to be taught not to blaspheme? (1 tim 1:19-20)

hey, why did paul right a letter to the corinthians at all? they were participating in all types of sin even though he writes in his preamble that the church of corinth was one of those wo were sanctified in christ jesus and called to be holy. paul should've just realized they werent saved anyway, that they didnt belong to God in the first place, and kept it moving.

these things happened because the holy spirit cannot tolerate sin which is why he leaves those who do so but that doesnt mean he does not make every effort to win them back. still, some will answer the calling of God to repentence and some wont.

Isn't that what changed from before the first coming of Christ to the age we're in now? That Christ sends the Helper to us and He remains with us?

Ephesians 4:30 NIV
30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Grieve the Spirit, that sounds like what happens when a believer willingly sins or acts unfaithfully to God. And as it says, the Holy Spirit is our seal for the day of redemption, which is the Resurrection.

 

[Cody2]

I believe that the believer in Christ has Eternal Security.

Ephesians 4:30 "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." KJB

If you do not agree, please read this article...
Eternal Security, Once Saved Always Saved? Dial-the-Truth Ministries

God bless

 

[Shribs]

I believe that the believer in Christ has Eternal Security.

Ephesians 4:30 "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." KJB

If you do not agree, please read this article...


God bless

I am a proponent of the doctrine of eternal security, and I must say that is a very good post friend. I recommend that link.

 

[WuAgent]

the key here is repentance. if one repents of his sin he is able to reenter into God's grace. if they dont then they put themselves at risk of losing what was promised.