Do you believe in predestination ?

[rturner76]

No, it's about sinning when you take communion in a sinful manner.
The sinful manner being without recognizing the meal as a sacred event proclaiming the Lord's death until he comes (1 Corinthians 11:26), and eating the bread like it was an ordinary meal, which was sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. (1 Corinthians 11:27-29).

Even here you show the passage does NOT talk about God killing potential sinners.

 

[Carl Emerson]

No sir, they have free will but from the knowledge learned in the sanctification process, Heb 12:5-11, they will never, ever, use their free will to chose to sin again. Just like the Trinity has a free will but will never use their free will to choose sin and the holy, elect angels have a free will but will never, ever, use their free will to choose to sin!

By their free will they will always make the righteous choice! That is the meaning of being holy, that is, fully sanctified.

Jesus taught us to pray "Thy will be done...

To Pray this sincerely don't we relinquish our own will in preference for His?

 

[atpollard]

NOT those whom Christ had promised by election to die for before the foundation of the world. Jn 3:18, believers (elect) who sinned and lost their faith are never judged but those who never believed (reprobate) are condemned already.

That is a perversion of what scripture actually teaches and what the Doctrines of Grace affirm.
However, you are free to believe whatever you like. I am not your mother, your God or Jiminy Cricket (your surrogate conscience).

 

[TedT]

Jesus taught us to pray "Thy will be done...

To Pray this sincerely don't we relinquish our own will in preference for His?

OR...it means we are freely putting our will into accord with HIS because we have learned that is the best.

 

[Carl Emerson]

28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.

1 Corinthians 11 28-32

I don't see anything about people getting sick and dying. It's more talking about people without understanding taking communion. Nothing about GOd murdering future sinners

Interesting the differing interpretation of this important passage...

For what it's worth I will give my interpretation...

1 Corinthians 11:28-32
New American Standard Bible

28 But a person must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

Right there self examination must conclude no one is worthy. Our right to drink is only on the basis of trust in His righteousness and the atonement for our sin by His blood. So he/she proceeds to eat and drink in an attitude of contrition.

29 For the one who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not properly recognize the body.

To me the body is a reference to the Body of Christ and in the same way as we dont judge ourselves, we dont judge others in the body either as we are all commonly under His atoning Blood.

30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number are asleep.

Yes... here I believe this is a reference to sickness and even death as a result of taking the bread and wine with judgemental attitudes, which divide the Body and elevate self above others.

31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.

Yes... we judge ourselves as unworthy accept in His atoning sacrifice for us.

32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

Judge not lest ye be judged...

His Judgement brings physical consequences even sickness and death.

So attitudes when approaching communion are very serious and consequential.

 

[Carl Emerson]

OR...it means we are freely putting our will into accord with HIS because we have learned that is the best.

Yet isn't this a basic requirement if we are truely born again?

Not just the process of sanctification that follows but a full and complete surrender in the moment the results in being transferred from one kingdom to the other??

 

[Clare73]

28 But let a man prove himself, and so let him eat of the bread, and drink of the cup.
People in sin should not take communion
29 For he that eateth and drinketh, eateth and drinketh judgment unto himself, if he discern not the body.
When they do they eat and drink condemnation on themselves
30 For this cause many among you are weak and sickly, and not a few sleep.

people often die in their sinful ways
31 But if we discerned ourselves, we should not be judged.
If we live right, we will not be judged by God
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.
The penalties of our sin brings us back to the Lord.

Thanks. . .well done.

I understand the bolded above to mean:

A believer eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not discern the body. . . and for this cause many die in judgment so they won't be condemned with the world for continuing the sin if they were living.

Nothing said about God killing people who MIGHT sin.

So why are believers judged with physical death now?

They are judged with physical death now, to prevent their being condemned for spiritual death by their continuing in the sin if they were alive.
They are judged with physical death now to prevent any future sin.

Are there any other verses in the Bible that back up that claim?

God's word does not have to be "backed up." He has to say it only once for it to be true.

Much of Romans 9 is not "backed up;" e.g., Romans 9:6, 11, 18, 19, 22, 23.

And for review:

It's about sinning when you take communion in a sinful manner.
The sinful manner being without recognizing the meal as a sacred event proclaiming the Lord's death until he comes (1 Corinthians 11:26), and eating the bread like it was an ordinary meal, which was sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. (1 Corinthians 11:27-29); i.e., against the sacred meal.

 

[rturner76]

So why are believers judged with physical death now?

The natural consequences of living a life of sin

They are judged with physical death now, to prevent their being condemned for spiritual death by their continuing in the sin if they were alive.
They are judged with physical death now to prevent any future sin.

It does not say that anywhere in the text. Where are you getting this from?

It's about sinning when you take communion in a sinful manner.
The sinful manner being without recognizing the meal as a sacred event proclaiming the Lord's death until he comes (1 Corinthians 11:26), and eating the bread like it was an ordinary meal, which was sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. (1 Corinthians 11:27-29); i.e., against the sacred meal.

On this we agree. THat is what the passage explains, not that God kills people to prevent them from being condemned.

 

[disciple Clint]

So my free will to choose holiness is contingent upon another's eternal life suffering in hell?? I don't think so.
I did not contend that if HE did not create those HE knew would end in hell because HE wanted to keep hell empty as scripture suggests, that those HE did know would repent and be redeemed had to do so by no free will decision of their own, ie, by HIS will, not theirs!!

Any difference between your pov and mine that HIS true knowledge of people in hell would restrain HIM from creating them is that some people would be missing but the rest of this system of our choices is fully in place.

There is no reason to think that some missing people demands that those not missing have lost their free will since they would just be the people HE knew would choose by their free will to become HIS Bride.

So my free will to choose holiness is contingent upon another's eternal life suffering in hell?? I don't think so.

Yes you are correct your free will decision does not in any way cause anyone to go to hell. You just cannot seem to accept the fact they we make our own decision about where we end up.

 

[disciple Clint]

Our ability to choose does NOT prove our wills are free because we constantly choose between evils. The ability to choose any of every option in the choice proves a free will and unreborn sinners are not free to choose righteousness...they do not have a free will.

Wrong they have all the ability to make their own decisions. God knowing what is going to happen does not cause it to happen. This is not as complicated as you seem to be trying to make it.

 

[disciple Clint]

And you know this how?

I know because I have exercised my free will to learn.

 

[TedT]

Yet isn't this a basic requirement if we are truly born again?

To become holy is indeed a basic requirement for the reborn but sanctification is result of the work of the Spirit, a work that we choose to comply with by our training to come into accord with HIM as Heb 12:5-11 suggests.

 

[TedT]

You just cannot seem to accept the fact they we make our own decision about where we end up.

I am a foremost champion of our choosing our own fates by our free will!! If you think I am not, you misunderstand me completely about what I think of our free will. Bring up my history and search for "absolute necessity" and it will give you a full list.

You may be interpreting me from your pov, not trying to understand mine...

 

[TedT]

Wrong they have all the ability to make their own decisions.

Who is they? If you mean people choosing their own fates, I agree. If you mean sinners choosing redemption and salvation while sinners, then I don't.

 

[TedT]

I know because I have exercised my free will to learn.

Yes, but I suggest that may be because you were either being led by the Spirit or your were already reborn and your free will was restored.

No sinner can tell that he is under duress to choose sin but thinks rather that he is free.

 

[Brightfame52]

That Faith in Christ is a blessing of Gods predestination is seen when we consider this blessed promise Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

This is a promise that the Just shall live by Faith This statement is in future indicative , indicating that something will certainly occur in the future. Now what makes it certain ? Gods predestination. Remember some had been predestinated to the adoption of children/sons which is manifested by Faith in Christ !

 

[disciple Clint]

Who is they? If you mean people choosing their own fates, I agree. If you mean sinners choosing redemption and salvation while sinners, then I don't.

We are all sinners

 

[disciple Clint]

Yes, but I suggest that may be because you were either being led by the Spirit or your were already reborn and your free will was restored.

No sinner can tell that he is under duress to choose sin but thinks rather that he is free.

I think that you confuse free will with grace. We all have free will but we all must be given the grace to accept Jesus by the Holy Spirit.

 

[TedT]

We are all sinners

1 Timothy 5:21 I charge thee before GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the ELECT angels. Elect angels are not sinful... How do you think their election happened?

 

[TedT]

I think that you confuse free will with grace. We all have free will but we all must be given the grace to accept Jesus by the Holy Spirit.

If grace is an absolute necessity then our will is moot, free or not.