Do you believe in Creationism or Evolutionism?

[Job 33:6]

Love this. God makes the definition of "day", an English word mind you, so clear, that even Saint Augustine somehow just got it wrong. How foolish of this 4th century saint and well accredited theologian to overlook such an obvious concept. But no worries, modern day internet theologians have this one right, it's as clear as day.

Did Augustine Read Genesis 1 Literally? | Henry Center

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Saint Augustine's writings are not accepted Scripture.

 

[Job 33:6]

Saint Augustine's writings are not accepted Scripture.

What is that supposed to mean? That no one is qualified to interpret scripture?

What is it that you think you're doing now but taking a 21st century view and overlaying it into an ancient narrative?

When in modern times have you ever heard anyone use the word "day" in a context which doesn't involve orbital patterns of earth around the sun? It's obvious that scripture is not referring to 24 hour days because the sun wasn't even created until day 4.

There is no sun and thus, there is no temporal rotation or orbit around such.

 

[Job 33:6]

What is that supposed to mean? That no one is qualified to interpret scripture?

What is it that you think you're doing now but taking a 21st century view and overlaying it into an ancient narrative?

When in modern times have you ever heard anyone use the word "day" in a context which doesn't involve orbital patterns of earth around the sun? It's obvious that scripture is not referring to 24 hour days because the sun wasn't even created until day 4.

There is no sun and thus, there is no temporal rotation or orbit around such.

It's like those YECs that read about the firmament and they argue that there was some kind of giant ice dome around the earth, that shattered during Noah's flood. It's just an awful exegesis that completely misses the meaning of the historical narrative. And it's caused by this 21st century perspective where every little jot and tittle must be absolutely flawless in this glass castle perspective, as if it's just a giant house of cards that couldn't dare be tested.

And for those who are familiar with the ANE narrative, it just looks awful.

Translations are made in an effort to explain concepts. But you have to understand the context of the word being used. You can't just say "well, the words the same so I guess that's just that".

If someone in scripture, late in the new testament says "today I went to the alter", you can't just automatically assume that "day" in a creation week, before the sun even exists, when the cosmos are being created (or more specifically they're being organized), that this is somehow equivalent. Even in light of things like a framework perspective days 1-3 involving ordering of environments, then 4-6 being the matched filling of those spaces, poetically used numerous times throughout scripture to depict concepts far more thought provoking than simple words on paper.

This kind of approach just completely misses the massive body of historical information available on the origins of Genesis that suggests otherwise. It's a lot like that ice dome view of YECs.

And, such a perspective will never make sense. No one would ever know how the windows closed after the flood with this 21st century overlay, nor could this modern perspective explain how it is that a 24 hour day could exist before the sun does or in an absence of any mention of rotation or orbital patterns of earth.

Indeed, these topics only make sense when we drop our modern scientific perspective of the universe, and put ourselves into the shoes of the original authors, to understand their context. And I hope you understand every word of this post. If you don't, please make an effort to understand, given how important this topic is to the faith.

 

[Job 33:6]

It's like those YECs that read about the firmament and they argue that there was some kind of giant ice dome around the earth, that shattered during Noah's flood. It's just an awful exegesis that completely misses the meaning of the historical narrative. And it's caused by this 21st century perspective where every little jot and tittle must be absolutely flawless in this glass castle perspective, as if it's just a giant house of cards that couldn't dare be tested.

And for those who are familiar with the ANE narrative, it just looks awful.

Translations are made in an effort to explain concepts. But you have to understand the context of the word being used. You can't just say "well, the words the same so I guess that's just that".

If someone in scripture, late in the new testament says "today I went to the alter", you can't just automatically assume that "day" in a creation week, before the sun even exists, when the cosmos are being created (or more specifically they're being organized), that this is somehow equivalent. Even in light of things like a framework perspective days 1-3 involving ordering of environments, then 4-6 being the matched filling of those spaces, poetically used numerous times throughout scripture to depict concepts far more thought provoking than simple words on paper.

This kind of approach just completely misses the massive body of historical information available on the origins of Genesis that suggests otherwise. It's a lot like that ice dome view of YECs.

And, such a perspective will never make sense. No one would ever know how the windows closed after the flood with this 21st century overlay, nor could this modern perspective explain how it is that a 24 hour day could exist before the sun does or in an absence of any mention of rotation or orbital patterns of earth.

Indeed, these topics only make sense when we drop our modern scientific perspective of the universe, and put ourselves into the shoes of the original authors, to understand their context. And I hope you understand every word of this post. If you don't, please make an effort to understand, given how important this topic is to the faith.

.
The easiest way to resolve this entire discussion, is to look at Genesis 8:2, and once we see what is actually meant in this verse, all of these questions about days and raqia and the tree of life etc. Everything in Genesis falls into place.

And we can't just say "well, it says the windows shut so I guess there were windows in space that held back water because that's what scripture says". We can't just skip over the perspective and context of the original authors.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Your response reminds me of a preacher I once talked with who went through great pains and research to prove that where wine is mentioned in the Scriptures it is referring to a nonalcoholic drink. He skirts the clear Scriptural references to the fermented drink and passages which specifically state that one should not get drunk on wine.
God makes plain the meaning of the word day in Genesis...no need to do this if not to disprove doubters.
There are great earthly minds...and they are the worse cases when it comes to faith issues because they can't get over themselves enough to believe that their own extensive and exhaustive education proves of very little value in the understanding of the Scriptures.
Scripture is there to instruct both the simple and the wise and where Paul speaks of delivering a message of wisdom to the mature it is not some scientifically matured mind...it is just the opposite, it is a developed spiritual mind based on acceptance and faith in our omnipotent God.
God speaks to Job of his lack of wisdom relative His own. Paul records for us in I Corinthians exactly the situation between God and man in reference to intellect...
I Corinthians 1:20-23:
20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles

So enough of your earthly wisdom then. Come and accept the Word of the Lord...
Psalm 33:8-10:
Let all the earth fear the Lord;
let all the people of the world revere him.
9 For he spoke, and it came to be;
he commanded, and it stood firm.

10 The Lord foils the plans of the nations;
he thwarts the purposes of the peoples.

All peoples bent on proving God's Word to be true or false are in fact in a state of doubt of the Bible's authenticity and set themselves up to be a kind of equal of God in intellect. It may sound very naive to you to be so reliant upon the truth and trustworthiness of God's Word, but it is not...it is a process of spiritual maturation.
Also worth mentioning is the fact that Jesus speaks to the adding to Scripture and through this course coming to negate His very Word. (Mark 7)

Genesis 1:5. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. (NRSV)

Genesis 1:14. And God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,” (NRSV)

 

[PrincetonGuy]

So enough of your earthly wisdom then. Come and accept the Word of the Lord...

Radicalized young earth creationists make a mockery of God and His word by refusing to study the Bible in the languages in which God, in His infinite wisdom, chose to give it to man, and by castigating the men and women who so deeply and sincerely love the Bible that they invest their lives and their finances in the study of it. When presented with incontrovertible facts that conclusively prove that the first eleven chapters of Genesis are not an accurate account of historic events, these young earth creationists have no facts of any kind to offer in rebuttal, so they maliciously attack the persons who care enough to present the facts in a spirit of amicably sharing the Scriptures. Where does such maliciousness come from? What spiritual forces are behind these attacks? The Bible very clearly and unmistakably answers these questions!

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Heaven is the Christian’s highest goal and the central purpose of the Bible is to point the path to heaven. On this I should hope we can agree.

In doing research on the accuracy of Scripture you must remember that your reasoning, postulations or final conclusions are only as accurate as the sources you are relying upon. Most such research involves the usage of human records and observations so one…to be an honest researcher worth his salt…should read all the current research at one’s disposal himself and come to best conclusions based on a careful comparison of those conclusions with what the clear reading of Scripture presents. Without this approach are you not relying too heavily on the thoughts of mere man? I believe so.

Now in my view there are two conundrums with this approach: time consumption…too much time is spent “in doubt” of Scripture or in suspension, or a temporary setting aside of Scripture truths awaiting final review. In the realization of this I find it more logical to spend my time at the feet of Jesus, my favorite and all wise author of my favorite book, the Holy Bible, and to ponder His Word and allow the Holy Spirit to instruct through reflection on that Word.

The second conundrum is loss of Scripture knowledge in the “research” process. One must spend more time pouring over man’s thoughts than reading and seriously reflecting upon Scripture itself. Many times would be Christians, even having read through the Bible, set out to research it for accuracy with the use of human texts and get themselves tangled up enough to forget what Scripture itself says…where they do retain spiritual knowledge, they neglect to place the accuracy of the Word above the other literature in discovery of contradictions.

Take for example the argument over the meaning of the word day. An honest skeptic of day meaning the modern literal word day should consider all known human literature on the topic. (Or certainly want to, for what makes a man think better of one researcher over another? They are both mere men. A simple man can come up with rather sophisticated ideas and you’d overlook these if you didn’t lend his info the time. Who is on the right track?) One would not pass go in their Spiritual walk. One doubt leads to another and research lendsitself to more research. I think the following Proverb speaks to the final state of such a man:

I went past the field of a sluggard,
past the vineyard of someone who has no sense;
31 thorns had come up everywhere,
the ground was covered with weeds,
and the stone wall was in ruins.
32 I applied my heart to what I observed
and learned a lesson from what I saw:
33 A little sleep, a little slumber,
a little folding of the hands to rest—
34 and poverty will come on you like a thief
and scarcity like an armed man.

A sluggard spends little time in the actual word of God and allows weeds to grow. Are you not allowing weeds to crop up in all this time spent suspending God’s Word? Or perhaps you think mankind is so capable that he can combine the deep studies of earthly wisdom with that of spiritual wisdom and sort them out. I’ve been off course before in my life reading the thoughts of “great” men. I aborted that mission in favor of this current course…Bible first/Bible only…and I find it to be the most profitable by far for my soul and in making heaven my highest goal.

 

[Ragdoll]

Let God be true and every man a liar. I trust Scripture over man's vain imaginations. Trusting evolution theory is no different than trusting leftist politicians with your financial future. You'd be better off trusting a fortune cookie over evolution theory.

 

[rturner76]

I believe God created evolution

 

[Ragdoll]

I believe God created evolution

It says that nowhere in the Bible. Therefore you trust man's vain imaginations over God. I know better than to take that stance. Just look at our economy and all the things going wrong every day. All this is because of faith in evolution theory over God. It says all this in Romans 1:18-32. When you learn to trust God a heavy weight will be lifted off your sholder. The people behind evolution are no different than Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, AOC, Omar, Chuck Schumer, and the rest of the criminals destroying our culture and economy. Same players, same team.
When I started out learning Biblical creationism I admit that there was some fear of evolution in me. I was always told that evolutionists are superhuman with superhuman intelligence that no average man could possibly match. They sure seemed like gods on earth. But after studying both sides of the spectrum, and debating atheists, I discovered there was a patteren to all my discussions. Each and every time I was intiminated by something superhuman spoken by an almighty evolutionist, I soon discovered that it was a lie and very unscientific. Soon I began to understand that evolutionists were not gods or superhuman minds. In fact, I discovered that they were blatant liars that deliberately hid the truth of God just as it says in prophecy about them.
Simply put, I learned to trust God completely and have no fear of any evolutionist. I know they are liars and right now they are destroying our ecocnomy because of their crazy beliefs. Not only that, but its evolutionists who will be the most ambitious about starting a nuclear war. You see, evolutionists believe in 5 mass extinction events (though some evolutionists say 6 extinction events). Each and every time life came back more and more complex. So if you take them seriously, you would be led to believe that mass extinction of life is good for the planet. Thus a nuclear war would be no big thing to them because the sun will come out, warm up the ponds, and out comes all these evolutionists all over again. Evolutionists belief in spontaneous generation (aka., abiogenesis). This is a fancy and clever way of teaching reincarnation. In reality, a nuclear war would kill off all life on earth. Say, for example, India and China have a nuclear war. Well that's it for all life on the planet. It doesn't even have to be a global nuclear war to kill off all life on the planet. If that ever were to happen then life would never come back. But since evolutionists believe in reincarnation (aka, abiogenesis/spontaneous generation), they believe they will be back on next season's episode of life.

When you finally master who these people are and know their beliefs and their corrupt political agendas, then you learn not to see them as gods of earth or having superhuman intelligence. They are just regular human beings who hate God and wage war with God. Prophecy speaks about this in Revelation 19:17-21. I can see easily see this happening today. The last thing you learn about evolutionists and atheists is that they all believe in God. They just choose to wage war against God hoping Satan will be victorious over God. A close friend of mine who became a Christian and then became an atheist, has now become a Christian again. He deeply regrets leaving Christ. He admitted to me that all atheists believe in God but choose to make war against God. He said he could not fight God anymore. So he returned to Christ.

What I have written here is true and the shortest summary of evolution and atheism I can write. Never think you have to cower to evolution theory just to feel like an intellectual Christian. Let the Holy Spirit work in your life and transform you from the inside. Don't ever feel you need to intellectually fit in with the errounous ways of this world. For the ways of this world are numbered. When these ways are gone they will never return. Jesus will return and sin, evil and death will be no more. So it is better to place your faith in a worthy promise from God then to trust these scam artists who have profited from our misery.

Trust in God!

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Let God be true and every man a liar. I trust Scripture over man's vain imaginations.

Do you trust Genesis 6-8 to tell you the truth? What is that truth that you trust this passage of Scripture to tell you? Do you believe that the length of the ark was literally “three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits? Or do you believe that these measurements are symbolic, and that the ark was really 1,000 times as large and that all the animals managed to be squeezed into it along with billions of cubic feet of meat and billions of cubic feet of fresh ☺ produce.

At least as early as the first half of the third century Christians looked around and observed many thousands of kinds of animals and realized that if the measurement for the ark were to be understood as literal, the ark would have been ridiculously too small. These Christians had never been to Australia, or New Zealand, or North or South America, or northern Europe or northern Asia. They had never seen the fossil remains of a Tyrannosaurus rex or an Allosaurus fragilis. They had never seen the fossil remains of a Spinosaurus—the largest of the carnivorous dinosaurs. Indeed, they had never seen the fossil remains of any of the huge carnivorous dinosaurs—or any of the huge herbivorous and omnivorous dinosaurs. As for mastodons and mammoths, saber-toothed cats and giant sloths, and many other kinds of huge mammals that are now extinct but which would have necessarily been represented aboard the ark….

Bottom line: a literal interpretation of Genesis 6-8 gives us a wildly imaginative farce! And yet, in homes across the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, millions of fathers are telling their kids that the story of Noah and the Ark is true as written. The children reply, “But Dad, it can’t be true.” And the fathers are rebuking and even punishing their children for failing to believe the Bible! The fathers are losing their credibility, the families are being torn apart, the churches are being split, and millions of children are walking away from Christ and abandoning their faith—all because the fathers are refusing to believe the truths that are being revealed by God through science.

Trusting evolution theory is no different than trusting leftist politicians with your financial future. You'd be better off trusting a fortune cookie over evolution theory.

Refusing to believe that evolution is taking place right around us every minute of the day just because one has not “gone to the trouble” to study the Bible for oneself is causing thousands upon thousands of young people to “say no” to the Bible and the Christ that it proclaims.

That the teaching of the theory of evolution is harmless to the Christian faith is proved around the world by the tens of millions of faithful Christians who believe that the theory of evolution is good science.

 

[Job 33:6]

And not only is denial of an old earth or evolution a refusal to believe what God has revealed through science,

I would go on to say that it's also a refusal to believe what God has revealed through scripture^.

YEC views tend not to acknowledge things like Cain's fearing for his life when he left Eden, or that he went on to a village which already existed and met his wife in the world beyond the garden. Adams eternal life being directly linked to his access to God's tree of life in the garden. They tend not to consider that Ha Adam means "the man" as opposed to being an actual name for a person as it is perceived today, or nachash meaning the shining one or one linked with divinations, rather than Satan simply being a talking snake that randomly happened to have legs in the garden? They tend not to acknowledge the windows of the firmament opening and closing to let water through, or that stars were placed within the firmament, while God walked upon the top of the firmament in human form. Or that of the dozen or so references to the firmament in scripture, all adjectives imply a solid structure that held heavenly waters up in the sky.

There are many old testament concepts that are just completely botched or otherwise ignored by young earth interpretations. Which detracts from the original meaning and intent of God's word.

It's not just a slap in the face of the world's scientific community, but it's also a slap in the face of biblical scholars and arguably an insult to our Lord and Savior.

 

[Ragdoll]

Do you trust Genesis 6-8 to tell you the truth? What is that truth that you trust this passage of Scripture to tell you? Do you believe that the length of the ark was literally “three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits? Or do you believe that these measurements are symbolic, and that the ark was really 1,000 times as large and that all the animals managed to be squeezed into it along with billions of cubic feet of meat and billions of cubic feet of fresh ☺ produce.

At least as early as the first half of the third century Christians looked around and observed many thousands of kinds of animals and realized that if the measurement for the ark were to be understood as literal, the ark would have been ridiculously too small. These Christians had never been to Australia, or New Zealand, or North or South America, or northern Europe or northern Asia. They had never seen the fossil remains of a Tyrannosaurus rex or an Allosaurus fragilis. They had never seen the fossil remains of a Spinosaurus—the largest of the carnivorous dinosaurs. Indeed, they had never seen the fossil remains of any of the huge carnivorous dinosaurs—or any of the huge herbivorous and omnivorous dinosaurs. As for mastodons and mammoths, saber-toothed cats and giant sloths, and many other kinds of huge mammals that are now extinct but which would have necessarily been represented aboard the ark….

Bottom line: a literal interpretation of Genesis 6-8 gives us a wildly imaginative farce! And yet, in homes across the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, millions of fathers are telling their kids that the story of Noah and the Ark is true as written. The children reply, “But Dad, it can’t be true.” And the fathers are rebuking and even punishing their children for failing to believe the Bible! The fathers are losing their credibility, the families are being torn apart, the churches are being split, and millions of children are walking away from Christ and abandoning their faith—all because the fathers are refusing to believe the truths that are being revealed by God through science.


Refusing to believe that evolution is taking place right around us every minute of the day just because one has not “gone to the trouble” to study the Bible for oneself is causing thousands upon thousands of young people to “say no” to the Bible and the Christ that it proclaims.

That the teaching of the theory of evolution is harmless to the Christian faith is proved around the world by the tens of millions of faithful Christians who believe that the theory of evolution is good science.

I see evolution happening nowhere. Again, as I said before, I trust God over the vain imaginations of man. Look at the state of world affairs today. Its all based on evolutionist philosophy. Our economy is fallen, mass school shootings have become the norm, morality in western nations crushed by disobedience to God. I have no faith in evolution theory at all. None. I have no faith that the worship of humans will make things better. I have no faith that man is god. Mankind is fallible and prone to making the worst of mistakes. This is the sinful nation visibly seen in man.

The Genesis Flood is one of the most proven things in the Bible. You can go to any creationist website and find ample proof of the Flood. But you would rather trust evolutionists because you see them as superhumans with superintellects. As I said before, once you realize they are fully human and are not gods, you lose all faith in them. People believe in evolution theory because they fear evolutionists like one should fear God Almighty.

We live in a modern age where you can find information covering a vast amount of Biblical proofs. All you need to do is apply yourself and search it out. There are volumes of books written that prove evolution is false. There are volumes of books that teach you real science. Evolution theory is not science. It's philosophy. Know the difference.

Nothing you can say, no amount of words typed, will ever change my mind. I have seen all the proof anyone ever needs to see. I have seen these things because I sought out these things. If you do not seek you will not find. And there really isn't any excuse for people in the 21st century to believe in evolution. All anyone needs to do is look at how they run the world, how they run our country, and see for yourself that the truth is not in them. So I live my life trusting in God and His word over the corrupt minds of man. I have seen enough corruption in my life to know that man is not god and is not worthy to worship as a god. Once you understand that you will break away from your faith in evolution philosophy.

Lastly, there are Christians in every country. Plenty of Christians in Australia and New Zealand. Your arguments make no headway on the matter. They are just arguments and nothing more. Anyone can argue. But not everyone earnestly seek the truth.

 

[Ragdoll]

And not only is denial of an old earth or evolution a refusal to believe what God has revealed through science,

I would go on to say that it's also a refusal to believe what God has revealed through scripture^.

There is no evolution in Scripture apart from the prophecies in Romans 1:18-32 and 2Peter 3:3-10. The 5th word in Genesis is "created." That says it all right there.

YEC views tend not to acknowledge things like Cain's fearing for his life when he left Eden, or that he went on to a village which already existed and met his wife in the world beyond the garden.

This is because we actually understand the passage. First, people back then lived up to 1000 years. Cain was the first born. Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters. You will find Cain's wife in Genesis 5. Cain married a sister. Adam and Eve were the first parents of earth. There is no death before Adam. T

 

[rturner76]

Trust in God!

You can trust in God AND science. God created science. The Bible is more than factual information. It has parables, poetry, and instructions on how to live right. It's not a science, biology, or geology book. If you look at the 7 day creation story, it goes in the same order as the scientific theory of creation. "Let there be light" is the big bang, then it goes in order of the Earth forming and the waters receding to reveal land, then the plants and animals, and finally the human being.

 

[Job 33:6]

There is no evolution in Scripture apart from the prophecies in Romans 1:18-32 and 2Peter 3:3-10. The 5th word in Genesis is "created." That says it all right there.

This is because we actually understand the passage. First, people back then lived up to 1000 years. Cain was the first born. Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters. You will find Cain's wife in Genesis 5. Cain married a sister. Adam and Eve were the first parents of earth. There is no death before Adam. T

You just ignored 99% of my post. And scripture doesn't say that Cain married his sister. You just made that up in your imagination.

In fact, if we read Genesis, the idea that Adam and Eve had more children isn't described until well after Cain already found his wife in this pre-existing and pre-populated, land of Nod.

Look, you have driven me out today from the face of the ground, and from your face I must hide. I will be a wanderer and a fugitive on the earth, and it will happen that whoever finds me will kill me.”
Genesis 4:14 LEB

Who exactly was Cain afraid of that might kill him if no other people exist? Indeed other people did already exist, other pre-existing people beyond the garden of Eden in the Land of Nod or elsewhere, is who he feared, of course.

And Cain went out from the presence of Yahweh, and he settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
Genesis 4:16 LEB
Settled in the land of Nod that was, as we will see in the following verses, pre-inhabited by his wife.

And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and gave birth to Enoch. And when he built a city he named the city after his son, Enoch. And Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and those who have livestock. Then [meaning afterwards at a later point in time] Adam knew his wife again, and she gave birth to a son. And she called his name Seth, for she said “God has appointed to me another child in the place of Abel, because Cain killed him.”
Genesis 4:17‭, ‬20‭, ‬25 LEB

Described as if Eve had finally had another child to replace Abel, well after Cain had already married and had children.

Then moving on to the next chapter:

And when Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he fathered a child in his likeness, according to his image. And he called his name Seth. And the days of Adam after he fathered Seth were eight hundred years. And he fathered sons and daughters.
Genesis 5:3‭-‬4 LEB

Repeating what we observed, Adam and Eve had given birth to Seth, and then [afterwards] Adam had later fathered sons and daughters, as it is written.



And that's what scripture actually says. It doesn't say anything about Adam and Eve having other children contemporary with Cain and Abel that left the garden of Eden before Cain so that Cain could meet his sister once he was eventually exiled from the garden. Scripture just doesn't say what you're proposing it says, indeed it tells a completely different story.

By proposing that Cain married an unnamed sister, you're just slapping professional scientists and Biblical scholars on the face and boldly disregarding detailed information and studies provided by both.

The reality is that Cain was exiled from the garden, he feared for his life (read the text), he feared that other people beyond the garden would harm him when he was eventually to be exiled. He went to a land of Nod and met a woman who was not his sibling (as Adam and Eve are not described as having had other children that already left Eden or any children other than Cain or Abel at all), Cain married and had children, and then later on Adam and Eve gave birth to Seth (considered a long awaited replacement of Abel) and further other children well after Cain had already married and had children of his own.

And that's what scripture actually says. And that's just one topic of the several I noted in my prior post.

Indeed, young earth creationists are arguing for a history that is in actuality very different from what scripture actually describes, and it's not coincidence that YECs also regularly bump heads and argue with scientists as well. Science and scripture do ultimately align, but they don't land on YECism at all.

 

[Ragdoll]

You just ignored 99% of my post. And scripture doesn't say that Cain married his sister. You just made that up in your imagination.

In fact, if we read Genesis, the idea that Adam and Eve had more children isn't described until well after Cain already found his wife in this pre-existing and pre-populated, land of Nod.

Look, you have driven me out today from the face of the ground, and from your face I must hide. I will be a wanderer and a fugitive on the earth, and it will happen that whoever finds me will kill me.”
Genesis 4:14 LEB

Who exactly was Cain afraid of that might kill him if no other people exist? Indeed other people did already exist, other pre-existing people beyond the garden of Eden in the Land of Nod or elsewhere, is who he feared, of course.

And Cain went out from the presence of Yahweh, and he settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
Genesis 4:16 LEB
Settled in the land of Nod that was, as we will see in the following verses, pre-inhabited by his wife.

And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and gave birth to Enoch. And when he built a city he named the city after his son, Enoch. And Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and those who have livestock. Then [meaning afterwards at a later point in time] Adam knew his wife again, and she gave birth to a son. And she called his name Seth, for she said “God has appointed to me another child in the place of Abel, because Cain killed him.”
Genesis 4:17‭, ‬20‭, ‬25 LEB

Described as if Eve had finally had another child to replace Abel, well after Cain had already married and had children.

Then moving on to the next chapter:

And when Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he fathered a child in his likeness, according to his image. And he called his name Seth. And the days of Adam after he fathered Seth were eight hundred years. And he fathered sons and daughters.
Genesis 5:3‭-‬4 LEB

Repeating what we observed, Adam and Eve had given birth to Seth, and then [afterwards] Adam had later fathered sons and daughters, as it is written.



And that's what scripture actually says. It doesn't say anything about Adam and Eve having other children contemporary with Cain and Abel that left the garden of Eden before Cain so that Cain could meet his sister once he was eventually exiled from the garden. Scripture just doesn't say what you're proposing it says, indeed it tells a completely different story.

By proposing that Cain married an unnamed sister, you're just slapping professional scientists and Biblical scholars on the face and boldly disregarding detailed information and studies provided by both.

The reality is that Cain was exiled from the garden, he feared for his life (read the text), he feared that other people beyond the garden would harm him when he was eventually to be exiled. He went to a land of Nod and met a woman who was not his sibling (as Adam and Eve are not described as having had other children that already left Eden or any children other than Cain or Abel at all), Cain married and had children, and then later on Adam and Eve gave birth to Seth (considered a long awaited replacement of Abel) and further other children well after Cain had already married and had children of his own.

And that's what scripture actually says. And that's just one topic of the several I noted in my prior post.

Indeed, young earth creationists are arguing for a history that is in actuality very different from what scripture actually describes, and it's not coincidence that YECs also regularly bump heads and argue with scientists as well. Science and scripture do ultimately align, but they don't land on YECism at all.

First of all, modern science came from YEC. Almost every founding father of modern science followed Bishop Ussher's timeline. So there is where modern science came from. Second, Scripture is very clear that Adam and Eve were the first people. Genesis 10 records the table of nations. In that table there is no mention of hominids or ape men or pre-adamites.

Finally, even from the lousy translation you use of the Bible it tells you that from Adam all humanity came.
Acts 17:26 LEB - And he made from one man every nation - Bible Gateway

 

[Ragdoll]

You can trust in God AND science. God created science. The Bible is more than factual information. It has parables, poetry, and instructions on how to live right. It's not a science, biology, or geology book. If you look at the 7 day creation story, it goes in the same order as the scientific theory of creation. "Let there be light" is the big bang, then it goes in order of the Earth forming and the waters receding to reveal land, then the plants and animals, and finally the human being.

The light is not the big bang. In Genesis 1:2 God is moving over the watery blob of the earth. Now the earth is in it's most fetal stage of creation but it already exist. Had God caused some sort of big bang this close to the earth the watery blob of the earth would have been vaporized by the immense heat. The sun and stars were not created until Day 4. This is a good thing because creating the sun before the earth would have destroyed the earth. In Genesis 1:3, God created the earth's core.

 

[rturner76]

The light is not the big bang. In Genesis 1:2 God is moving over the watery blob of the earth. Now the earth is in it's most fetal stage of creation but it already exist. Had God caused some sort of big bang this close to the earth the watery blob of the earth would have been vaporized by the immense heat. The sun and stars were not created until Day 4. This is a good thing because creating the sun before the earth would have destroyed the earth. In Genesis 1:3, God created the earth's core.

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No, the Bib Bang is what spit out the Earth. "Let there be light" BOOM! There was light, a million million stars sent through the cosmos.