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Do you believe in Creationism or Evolutionism?

Are you a Creationist as per the OP definition.. a literal 7 day week of creation. Gen 1?

  • yes

    Votes: 22 34.4%
  • yes but I think that the entire galaxy as well as Earth, Sun and moon were created in those 7 days

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes but I think the entire universe was created in in those 7 literal days

    Votes: 11 17.2%
  • yes - but the Bible is wrong

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • yes - but I mix evolution with it in some way

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • No - but since I believe the Bible I think of this as a kind of creationism

    Votes: 7 10.9%
  • No - creationism is wrong, the Bible is wrong, I believe evolution is the real truth

    Votes: 3 4.7%
  • other

    Votes: 20 31.3%

  • Total voters
    64

throughfiierytrial

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However, if sun wasn't created yet in first three days, how could there be evening and morning on first 3 days?

Interesting to know that "ancient Hebrew people reckoned that each day begins with the appearance of the stars at evening"; perhaps they work as slaves in the day time (in Egypt), and their own time begins in evening. However, using evening and morning still does not mean a 24-hour day. I note the hard-code word "day" in Deuteronomy but there back then, people could know the word "Day" has different menaing.

I still could not envisage God use "CGI" to create everything in supersonic speed, so to speak. I believe He took time to design the different kinds of trees, flowers and multitude of marine life, flying creatures or tiny creatures that crawl, and living things
God created light from darkness the first day...there was evening and morning...He called the light day and the dark night...the first day. The "lights" He created later were to produce their light and to govern and to serve as signs for marking time...days, seasons, years. God seems to in effect take ownership over darkness and light.
You may be reaching false conclusions about the heavenly lights and day and night..
 
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roman2819

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God created light from darkness the first day...there was evening and morning...He called the light day and the dark night...the first day. The "lights" He created later were to produce their light and to govern and to serve as signs for marking time...days, seasons, years. God seems to in effect take ownership over darkness and light.
You may be reaching false conclusions about the heavenly lights and day and night..

Which means that evening and morning does not mean a literal day then. I agree with @1an that day means stage or era , not literal 24- hour day.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Which means that evening and morning does not mean a literal day then. I agree with @1an that day means stage or era , not literal 24- hour day.
That is the conclusion you have reached, but that is not stated in the text. In fact, God defines day...sunlight and darkness need not be opposed to light and darkness.
The word day does not change meanings in the Scriptures,..to leave room for a definition of eras or ions..that has been proven a false argument by other biblical scholars. I can look it up in my interlinear..
 
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PrincetonGuy

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If one claims any word or account of the Bible is fable o labels them as possible legend or myth, one has no Truth...all of Scripture is called into question...is that where you want to stand?

Also,note that Psalms and Job and even as late as NT Hebrews and Peter site Genesis creation as authentic...you calling all this into question?

Some years ago as a young person reading the book of Genesis, I noticed that when I began reading chapter 12 I was reading a very different genre of literature than I had been reading in chapters 1-11. I had at the time several expositional commentaries on the English text of Genesis, but the most recent commentary that I had on the Hebrew text of Genesis was the two-volume (820 pages) commentary on Genesis by Franz Delitzsch published in the fifth and final German edition in 1887 and in the English edition in 1888. This very old work says nothing about the change in genres. Nonetheless, I knew what I knew and I pursued the matter by purchasing and reading much more recent commentaries on the Hebrew text of Genesis. Not surprising, these commentaries, in great detail, supported what I had personally observed in reading Genesis.

Most unfortunately, the vast majority of Christians who believe that the Bible is fully inerrant in all matters, including history and science, have only a minimal interest in the Bible and even less interest in studying the Bible. Consequently, they have no knowledge of the results biblical research during the past 200 years and they are living in a darkness that believes that the light is evil.


Anyone who has any knowledge of contemporary biblical exegesis in academic circles knows for themselves that the scholars who recognize the genre of literature in Genesis 1-11 also recognize that the references in the Bible to ancient Jewish traditions and the characters in those traditions do NOT indicate that Noah was a real historical person and that the flood was a real historical event. Let us take for example Matthew 24:35-39,

35. “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36. “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
37. “For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
38. “For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
39. and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.”

In this passage, Jesus may have been simply using the ancient Jewish saga regarding Noah and the ark as an illustration of the events that will be taking place at the time of his Second Coming. There is, of course, another possibility. Verse 36 expressly tells us that Jesus did NOT know the day or the hour of His Second Coming. Perhaps, at this point in his earthly ministry, He did not realize that the story of Noah and the Ark was an ancient Jewish saga rather than an historical account of an actual event. Three things, however, are certain:

1. The point that Jesus was making was NOT that Noah was a real person who survived a worldwide flood.

2. The point that Jesus was making was that the events that will be taking place at the time of His Second Coming will be just like the events taking place in the story immediately preceding the time of the flood.

3. The flood did NOT occur.

Luke 17:26-27 is nothing but a parallel account of the same teaching of Jesus.

The teaching of Peter in 1 Peter 3:18-22 may, and should be, interpreted using the same hermeneutics. Moreover, Let us not forget that Peter’s point in this passage is that “Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.”

The teaching of Peter in 2 Peter 2:4-11 may, and should be, interpreted using the same hermeneutics. And Let us not forget that Peter’s point in this passage is that “if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment, and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness…then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment.”

The teaching of the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews in Heb. 11:7 may, and should be, interpreted using the same hermeneutics. And Let us not forget that the author’s point in this passage is that all of the men and women in the chapter, “having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.”

(All quotations from Scripture are from the NASB, 1995)
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Some years ago as a young person reading the book of Genesis, I noticed that when I began reading chapter 12 I was reading a very different genre of literature than I had been reading in chapters 1-11. I had at the time several expositional commentaries on the English text of Genesis, but the most recent commentary that I had on the Hebrew text of Genesis was the two-volume (820 pages) commentary on Genesis by Franz Delitzsch published in the fifth and final German edition in 1887 and in the English edition in 1888. This very old work says nothing about the change in genres. Nonetheless, I knew what I knew and I pursued the matter by purchasing and reading much more recent commentaries on the Hebrew text of Genesis. Not surprising, these commentaries, in great detail, supported what I had personally observed in reading Genesis.

Most unfortunately, the vast majority of Christians who believe that the Bible is fully inerrant in all matters, including history and science, have only a minimal interest in the Bible and even less interest in studying the Bible. Consequently, they have no knowledge of the results biblical research during the past 200 years and they are living in a darkness that believes that the light is evil.


Anyone who has any knowledge of contemporary biblical exegesis in academic circles knows for themselves that the scholars who recognize the genre of literature in Genesis 1-11 also recognize that the references in the Bible to ancient Jewish traditions and the characters in those traditions do NOT indicate that Noah was a real historical person and that the flood was a real historical event. Let us take for example Matthew 24:35-39,

35. “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36. “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
37. “For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
38. “For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
39. and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.”

In this passage, Jesus may have been simply using the ancient Jewish saga regarding Noah and the ark as an illustration of the events that will be taking place at the time of his Second Coming. There is, of course, another possibility. Verse 36 expressly tells us that Jesus did NOT know the day or the hour of His Second Coming. Perhaps, at this point in his earthly ministry, He did not realize that the story of Noah and the Ark was an ancient Jewish saga rather than an historical account of an actual event. Three things, however, are certain:

1. The point that Jesus was making was NOT that Noah was a real person who survived a worldwide flood.

2. The point that Jesus was making was that the events that will be taking place at the time of His Second Coming will be just like the events taking place in the story immediately preceding the time of the flood.

3. The flood did NOT occur.

Luke 17:26-27 is nothing but a parallel account of the same teaching of Jesus.

The teaching of Peter in 1 Peter 3:18-22 may, and should be, interpreted using the same hermeneutics. Moreover, Let us not forget that Peter’s point in this passage is that “Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.”

The teaching of Peter in 2 Peter 2:4-11 may, and should be, interpreted using the same hermeneutics. And Let us not forget that Peter’s point in this passage is that “if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment, and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness…then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment.”

The teaching of the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews in Heb. 11:7 may, and should be, interpreted using the same hermeneutics. And Let us not forget that the author’s point in this passage is that all of the men and women in the chapter, “having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.”

(All quotations from Scripture are from the NASB, 1995)
Studying the Bible is key...I make it my life-long endeavor and also make the New Jerusalem my highest Goal.
Some of us approach Bible study with the firm belief that the Bible is the truth...the very Truth we can live under and conduct our lives by. In this approach we must always exercise our faith and accept the seemingly hard teachings when faced with contradictions presented by the teachings of the world. In this approach one must reflect on the many passages which shed light on a difficult area...God provides insight in this way...
II Timothy 2:7:
Reflect on what I am saying, for the Lord will give you insight into all this.

Along with this we must acknowledge and be aware that the Holy Spirit instructs us...so much wiser is He than even ancient books of commentary which boil down to the work of man and not so much of God..the result is entanglement in the realm of mere man...certainly a danger.

I John 2:27:
As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.
II Timothy 3:15-17:
and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
I Corinthians 1:18-21:
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Romans 15:4:
4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.

It is not at all that I'm not familiar with your approach nor the renderings of the studies of intellectuals...oddly enough their much learning becomes an obstacle...I found it so myself.
Now I pray you stay in the faith.
 
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roman2819

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Have you ever considered studying the Bible?

Since you asked, i will reply that I have taken Bible course covering every book and pass examinations. Not to mention the studies prior to that.

The book , Understanding Prayer, Faith and God's will, is based on the Scripture.

But to me, it is not how often you study the Bible, but how well you understand it. God is not looking for pious acts of regular bible reading. So often at church, I heard sermons saying "we must study God's Word often to grow in faith" which can cause Christians to feel guilty for not reading the Bible often enough. Yet when they read Scripture, they cannot not learn new stuff, upon which they feel unmotivated and more guilty -- until they feel indifferent, resigned that they cannot read the Bible well, cannot grow in faith, and is not a good enough Christian. The greatest irony is Christians who read the Bible piously or regularly, covering the same stuff over and over again to remind themselves of same old truths -- as if they have spiritual amnesia, as if they will forget to conduct themselves as Christians. I used to share apartment with some Christians who read Scriptures daily but filled with self-righteousness because Bible reading make them feel right with God.
 
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roman2819

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That is the conclusion you have reached, but that is not stated in the text. In fact, God defines day...sunlight and darkness need not be opposed to light and darkness.
The word day does not change meanings in the Scriptures,..to leave room for a definition of eras or ions..that has been proven a false argument by other biblical scholars. I can look it up in my interlinear..

Your effort to look up interlinear Bible is appreciated, but there is more than just studying words. The is culture and context that cannot be gathered from words. I believe certain words (eg Day) have more than one notation and the ancient Jews understand it ie they don't hard-code the word Day.

Psalm 90:4,2 Peter 3:8 NIV - A thousand years in your sight is like a day to God".

 
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throughfiierytrial

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Your effort to look up interlinear Bible is appreciated, but there is more than just studying words. The is culture and context that cannot be gathered from words. I believe certain words (eg Day) have more than one notation and the ancient Jews understand it ie they don't hard-code the word Day.

Psalm 90:4,2 Peter 3:8 NIV - A thousand years in your sight is like a day to God".
Proverbs 14:12
There is a way that appears to be right,
but in the end it leads to death.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Your effort to look up interlinear Bible is appreciated, but there is more than just studying words. The is culture and context that cannot be gathered from words. I believe certain words (eg Day) have more than one notation and the ancient Jews understand it ie they don't hard-code the word Day.

Psalm 90:4,2 Peter 3:8 NIV - A thousand years in your sight is like a day to God".
A thousand years in your sight...
The meaning of this is God is both patient and swift, so be alert.

Isaiah 55:7-9:
Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
 
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roman2819

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..... Perhaps, at this point in his earthly ministry, He (Jesus) did not realize that the story of Noah and the Ark was an ancient Jewish saga rather than an historical account of an actual event. Three things, however, are certain:
1. ...
2. ...
3. The flood did NOT occur.

I read what you said and redacted much of your words in order to bring your attention to the abovementioned to see if I interpret correctly on one point: Are ypu saying that the flood did not happen?

Are you also saying that "He (Jesus) did not realize that the story of Noah and the Ark was an ancient Jewish saga rather than an historical account of an actual event" ?So you think that Noah is a story and Jesus didn't realize it?
 
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roman2819

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Your God is too small. How long will it take Him to create the new Earth? How long did it take Him to create the fishes in the miracle of the loaves and fishes? The wine at His first miracle?

Even though God can complete the creation in 6 x 24 hours, but He won't Humans are finite, we live one generation - usually less than 90 years - we think short term in days or years. But God is timeless, why would He quickly cause multitude of living things to materialize at "supersonic" speed (figuratively speaking)?

Think of people who like to assemble models of figures, tanks, ships or planes - they enjoy the nitty gritty process process of putting it together and painting it, instead of buying already finished models. Likewise, God took interests and pleasure in designing the ecology system, tiny creatures that crawl and work the earth, marine life and land animal - instead of using CGI (computer graphics) to just cause things to just materialize in mild blink of an eye.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Even though God can complete the creation in 6 x 24 hours, but He won't Humans are finite, we live one generation - usually less than 90 years - we think short term in days or years. But God is timeless, why would He quickly cause multitude of living things to materialize at "supersonic" speed (figuratively speaking)?

Think of people who like to assemble models of figures, tanks, ships or planes - they enjoy the nitty gritty process process of putting it together and painting it, instead of buying already finished models. Likewise, God took interests and pleasure in designing the ecology system, tiny creatures that crawl and work the earth, marine life and land animal - instead of using CGI (computer graphics) to just cause things to just materialize in mild blink of an eye.
Again, only your mere human thoughts...the Scripture records God's account to man.

Isaiah 55:7-9:
Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Can't stress these points enough.
 
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roman2819

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Again, only your mere human thoughts...the Scripture records God's account to man.

Isaiah 55:7-9:
Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Can't stress these points enough.

Isaiah hoped that God would rescue Judah from the invading Babylonians. But God answered ".. my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” God was telling Isaiah that His way to cure Judah of idolatry is to let Judah fall to Babylonians -- instead of sending miracle.again to repel the invaders, which would be what Isaiah and the Jews wanted human way. But GOD had to let them learn the painful way to dish their sinful.way .

Quoting words out of context is a common way to misunderstand Scripture.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Studying the Bible is key...I make it my life-long endeavor and also make the New Jerusalem my highest Goal.

Some of us approach Bible study with the firm belief that the Bible is the truth...the very Truth we can live under and conduct our lives by. In this approach we must always exercise our faith and accept the seemingly hard teachings when faced with contradictions presented by the teachings of the world.

Luke 1:1. Since many have undertaken to set down an orderly account of the events that have been fulfilled among us,
2. just as they were handed on to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word,
3. I too decided, after investigating everything carefully from the very first, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
4. so that you may know the truth concerning the things about which you have been instructed. (NRSV)

Luke’s approach to the Scriptures was the exact opposite of yours. Instead of blindly and groundlessly beginning with the assumption that the Scriptures are inerrant in all maters, including history and science, he began with the raw data and investigated the truthfulness and accuracy of the data. Then, “after investigating everything carefully from the very first,” he wrote “an orderly account” based upon his own investigation, making no mention or suggestion of divine inspiration of what he had read or had written himself. This is the model, from Scripture itself, which I follow in my study of the Bible.

Believing in epic tales, sagas, myths, and legends is not exercising ones faith—it is being foolishly irrational. Believing the truth that God has chosen to share with us through the natural sciences, i.e., that is the life sciences and the physical sciences, is as much exercising our faith as is believing the truth that God has chosen to share with us through the Scriptures. However, young earth creationist organizations have radicalized millions of evangelical Christians and drilled into their heads the fundamentally evil belief that the truth that God has chosen to share with us through the natural sciences is “worldly knowledge” that contradicts the “plain meaning” of Scripture. Ironically, they take this teaching from the epistles of Paul, including even his Epistle to the Romans, and yet Paul uses in Romans 7:7-25 a figure of speech known as ‘speech–in-character’ that was well understood by the Greek Ante-Nicene Church Fathers but baffles today many professors of the Pauline epistles, not to mention the large majority of lay evangelical Christians. The result has been that the large majority of lay evangelical Christians today believe that Paul was describing in vv. 14-25 his experience as a mature Christian—because that is the “plain meaning” of the text— and that we, as Christians, are in bondage to sin as was Paul.

Another example of where the “plain meaning” of Scripture has caused severe and irreparable damage to the Church and to millions of Christian families is found in Matt. 19:9,

9. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another commits adultery.” (NRV)

However, the disciples were shocked by His answer and so horrified by it that they replied, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”

It is obvious from their reaction that the disciples understood Jesus to be teaching something very different from the “plain meaning” of the verse—and what they understood Jesus to be teaching has been brought into the light through cultural, historical, and textual studies of the teaching of Jesus on divorce and remarriage.

Numerous additional examples of Scriptures in which the “plain meaning” has been the wrong meaning could be cited here.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Isaiah hoped that God would rescue Judah from the invading Babylonians. But God answered ".. my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” God was telling Isaiah that His way to cure Judah of idolatry is to let Judah fall to Babylonians -- instead of sending miracle.again to repel the invaders, which would be what Isaiah and the Jews wanted human way. But GOD had to let them learn the painful way to dish their sinful.way .

Quoting words out of context is a common way to misunderstand Scripture.

Perhaps I should have used the following passages as well to give you a clear picture of my intent...

Psalm 131:1
My heart is not proud, Lord,
my eyes are not haughty;
I do not concern myself with great matters
or things too wonderful for me.

Psalm 139:1-6
You have searched me, Lord,
and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.
4 Before a word is on my tongue
you, Lord, know it completely.
5 You hem me in behind and before,
and you lay your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.

One is not quoting out of context by quoting an universal truth about God and man as is brought to light in the Isaiah 55 passages I used. Also the account of Job highlights this situation between God and man.You astonish me in your reply...seems naive...I take it you are simply trying to refute me though.

Here is a passage on the swiftness of God's creation:
Psalm 33:9:
9 For he spoke, and it came to be;
he commanded, and it stood firm.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Luke 1:1. Since many have undertaken to set down an orderly account of the events that have been fulfilled among us,
2. just as they were handed on to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word,
3. I too decided, after investigating everything carefully from the very first, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
4. so that you may know the truth concerning the things about which you have been instructed. (NRSV)

Luke’s approach to the Scriptures was the exact opposite of yours. Instead of blindly and groundlessly beginning with the assumption that the Scriptures are inerrant in all maters, including history and science, he began with the raw data and investigated the truthfulness and accuracy of the data. Then, “after investigating everything carefully from the very first,” he wrote “an orderly account” based upon his own investigation, making no mention or suggestion of divine inspiration of what he had read or had written himself. This is the model, from Scripture itself, which I follow in my study of the Bible.

Believing in epic tales, sagas, myths, and legends is not exercising ones faith—it is being foolishly irrational. Believing the truth that God has chosen to share with us through the natural sciences, i.e., that is the life sciences and the physical sciences, is as much exercising our faith as is believing the truth that God has chosen to share with us through the Scriptures. However, young earth creationist organizations have radicalized millions of evangelical Christians and drilled into their heads the fundamentally evil belief that the truth that God has chosen to share with us through the natural sciences is “worldly knowledge” that contradicts the “plain meaning” of Scripture. Ironically, they take this teaching from the epistles of Paul, including even his Epistle to the Romans, and yet Paul uses in Romans 7:7-25 a figure of speech known as ‘speech–in-character’ that was well understood by the Greek Ante-Nicene Church Fathers but baffles today many professors of the Pauline epistles, not to mention the large majority of lay evangelical Christians. The result has been that the large majority of lay evangelical Christians today believe that Paul was describing in vv. 14-25 his experience as a mature Christian—because that is the “plain meaning” of the text— and that we, as Christians, are in bondage to sin as was Paul.

Another example of where the “plain meaning” of Scripture has caused severe and irreparable damage to the Church and to millions of Christian families is found in Matt. 19:9,

9. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another commits adultery.” (NRV)

However, the disciples were shocked by His answer and so horrified by it that they replied, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”

It is obvious from their reaction that the disciples understood Jesus to be teaching something very different from the “plain meaning” of the verse—and what they understood Jesus to be teaching has been brought into the light through cultural, historical, and textual studies of the teaching of Jesus on divorce and remarriage.

Numerous additional examples of Scriptures in which the “plain meaning” has been the wrong meaning could be cited here.
We so utterly disagree that it may take quite some time to lay the proper ground work to have a meaningful discussion...short on that type of time right now and as I am replying with the use of a broken arm I will post-pone the reply. See my reply above to give some insight.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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We so utterly disagree that it may take quite some time to lay the proper ground work to have a meaningful discussion...short on that type of time right now and as I am replying with the use of a broken arm I will post-pone the reply. See my reply above to give some insight.
May God abundantly bless you in the knowledge of His truth—and heal your broken arm.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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May God abundantly bless you in the knowledge of His truth—and heal your broken arm.
Thank you for your well wishes. I also pray God keep you in the faith and that you do not stray from the revealed truth of His greatness.
Blessings in Him
 
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PrincetonGuy

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I read what you said and redacted much of your words in order to bring your attention to the abovementioned to see if I interpret correctly on one point: Are ypu saying that the flood did not happen?

The absurdity of an historical interpretation the flood story in of Genesis was written of at least as the first half of the third century, and proof of the ridiculousness of such an interpretation rapidly grew as more and more kinds of animals were discovered. Through the 19th century, the fossil record revealed that vast numbers of huge animal once roamed the earth but had become extinct. During the 20th century and now even in the early part of the 21st century, fossils of more kinds of animals have been discovered—all of which had to have been represented aboard the ark for us to have the genetic diversity that has become extinct and the genetic diversity that he still have on the earth.

Young earth creationist organizations are all too aware of these incontrovertible facts, but young earth creationism is a multibillion dollar enterprise and young earth propaganda brings in big—really big!—bucks.

In his booklet, The Genesis Flood, Fact or Fiction?, Tas Walker agrees with John Woodmorappe’s teaching that the word “kind” in Genesis (Hebrew, מִין) refers to what we now call a genus, as in “the cat kind, the horse kind, and the cow kind.” But, of course, this is nothing but young earth creationist mumbo jumbo because, for example, the “cat kind” is not a genus, but a family (Felidae) comprised of 14 genera. Furthermore, Woodmorappe and Walker claim that all modern animals in the cat kind “descended” from one “parent kind.” But—what do they mean by the word, “descended”? They mean a biological process known by everyone else as “evolution”!

About 10.8 million years ago, the cat family began to split off into 8 Lineages consisting of 2 subfamilies, 14 genera, and 41 species. (Kitchener et al. 2017. (A revised taxonomy of the Felidae). The final report of the Cat Classification Task Force of the IUCN / SSC Cat Specialist Group.) The relationship of these groups to each other and the relative time of their splitting off has been learned and very well documented by comparing DNA sequences of all 41 species of cats. The actual time of the splitting off is learned from fossil records which young earth creationist believe to be radically misinterpreted.

Leopards (Panthera pardus) and ocelots (Leopardus pardalis) are phenotypically similar to each other, but genotypically dissimilar to each other. This is called convergent evolution and is due to the two genetically very different species having adapted to similar environments. Leopards belong to the Panthera Lineage that includes the leopards and six other species, but ocelots belong to the Leopardus lineage that includes the ocelots and seven other species. Both of these lineages descended (evolved) from the same Felid ancestor rather than one of them from the other. Therefore, it would have been absolutely necessary for one pair of cats (cats are ‘unclean animals—Leviticus 11)) from both lineages to have been aboard the ark. Moreover, as has been proven from DNA sequences, all seven of the species in the Panthera Lineage descended (evolved) independently from each other, and therefore, it would have been absolutely necessary for a pair of cats from all seven of the species in the Panthera Lineage to have been aboard the ark. Furthermore, the same would have been true of the other seven lineages and all of their species—for a total of not just 2, but 82 cats!

All 41 species of cats are carnivores, and none of them hibernate. All 41 species of cats spray their very caustic urine all over everything that they wish to claim as their own. A male lion in captivity requires 8 pounds of food per day—that is 2,920 pounds of food that a male lion on board the ark would have needed to eat during its stay on board the ark—and its mate would have required 2,190 pounds of food. The total food requirement for the 82 cats would have been approximately 90,000 pounds of meat—90,000 pounds of meat that would have to have been fed to the cats by Noah and his family. And we are still talking about just the cats! And we have not yet gotten to their excrement!

We have today several hundred thousands of genetically discreet populations of animals that would necessarily have been aboard the ark 4,368 years ago, and during that time, thousands of genetically discreet populations of animals have become extinct, but would necessarily have been aboard the ark. DNA sequences do not lie, but Tas Walker makes a habit of it!

The purpose of the research was not to prove the theory of evolution or disprove the Bible; the purpose of the research was to get accurate data that will assist biologists in the protection of the biodiversity of the cat family and the other populations of wild animals—the very purpose of the ark!
 
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