Do you believe in Creationism or Evolutionism?

[1an]

Can you point to me which verse or passage you are referring to?

The Old Testament is about Eretz Yisrael and Their World.

The plague of Locusts in Exodus 10:5 that "covered the face of the whole earth" did not extend to the whole world. It was a local plague.

In Numbers 22:5,11 we read that when the Israelites settled in Canaan they "Covered the face of the earth." They were not in the whole world.

In Gen 4 the Bible says "Behold thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." Cain was driven out from the land where he was living.

When the devil tempted Jesus he took him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world. It was what they could see. Their world.

When the Israelites conquered Canaan we read in Deut 2:25 This day I will begin to put the dread and fear of you on the peoples who are under the whole heaven. The whole heaven was their immediate neighbours.
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[1an]

@1an

Also, Genesis 7 says,

“and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.” (Genesis 7:19).

So this would not be a true statement. If this only referred to the land of Israel, then the verse would say that all the high hills under the heaven were covered. But this says the WHOLE heaven. This is in reference to all of the skies. All the high hills under the the whole sky were covered. That is what this is saying.

Their hills and sky.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@1an

Also, whale and dinosaur fossils have been found up in mountains. This suggests the remains of a global flood. But you want death to exist before the fall and you align with the world's way of thinking that the Earth is old and death existed before the fall (Which would contradict Scripture - Romans 5:12).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Old Testament is about Eretz Yisrael and Their World.

The plague of Locusts in Exodus 10:5 that "covered the face of the whole earth" did not extend to the whole world. It was a local plague.

In Numbers 22:5,11 we read that when the Israelites settled in Canaan they "Covered the face of the earth." They were not in the whole world.

In Gen 4 the Bible says "Behold thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." Cain was driven out from the land where he was living.

When the devil tempted Jesus he took him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world. It was what they could see. Their world.

When the Israelites conquered Canaan we read in Deut 2:25 This day I will begin to put the dread and fear of you on the peoples who are under the whole heaven. The whole heaven was their immediate neighbours.
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“Face of the Earth” is not the same as “the face of the whole earth.”

As for Deuteronomy 2:25: This is true.

“This day will I begin to put the dread of thee and the fear of thee upon the nations that are under the whole heaven, who shall hear report of thee, and shall tremble, and be in anguish because of thee.” (Deuteronomy 2:25).

There is no indication that this must have been only the immediate surrounding area of the Israelites.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Their hills and sky.

No. It says the WHOLE heaven. If it was just their sky, it would say just the heavens. The WHOLE heavens (or whole of the skies) is referring to all skies everywhere.

 

[1an]

@1an

Also, whale and dinosaur fossils have been found up in mountains. This suggests the remains of a global flood. But you want death to exist before the fall and you align with the world's way of thinking that the Earth is old and death existed before the fall (Which would contradict Scripture - Romans 5:12).

I explained that earlier.

Sedimentary rocks like those I showed you in the picture are formed by the gradual accumulation of sediments on a river bed or on the sea floor in the form of sand or mud. As the sediments are buried, they are compacted by the weight of more and more material that is deposited on top.

The weight of the sediments on top squashes or compacts the sediments at the bottom. As the water is squeezed out the sediment becomes solid rock and the fossils of those dead animals, plants and fish caught up in the watery mire are contained within the rock for geologists to find much later. It takes millions of years for this to happen and that is one day in the creation account. There are five more 'days' more before everything is complete. More importantly, even frighteningly so, is that this process of rock formation takes place AFTER creation for the fossils to be encased within the rock, so driving back the “day” (yome) of creation by a further epoch.

 

[1an]

No. It says the WHOLE heaven. If it was just their sky, it would say just the heavens. The WHOLE heavens (or whole of the skies) is referring to all skies everywhere.

They cannot see the sky and hills in other countries.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I explained that earlier.

Sedimentary rocks like those I showed you in the picture are formed by the gradual accumulation of sediments on a river bed or on the sea floor in the form of sand or mud. As the sediments are buried, they are compacted by the weight of more and more material that is deposited on top.

The weight of the sediments on top squashes or compacts the sediments at the bottom. As the water is squeezed out the sediment becomes solid rock and the fossils of those dead animals, plants and fish caught up in the watery mire are contained within the rock for geologists to find much later. It takes millions of years for this to happen and that is one day in the creation account. There are five more 'days' more before everything is complete. More importantly, even frighteningly so, is that this process of rock formation takes place AFTER creation for the fossils to be encased within the rock, so driving back the “day” (yome) of creation by a further epoch.

Nope. This is evidence of a global flood and not evidence of an old Earth.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

They cannot see the sky and hills in other countries.

It doesn't matter. When God says the WHOLE heavens, He means it. You need a verse or passage or set of verses stating that the Torah was written in view for the region of God's people (Israel) alone. While some verses do appear to suggest such a thing, this was not always the case. If you believe otherwise, you need to create a more biblically sound argument for such a thing.

The problem is that you are inserting outside ideas into the text in order to make an old Earth true.
An evening and morning naturally would define a day for Genesis 1. But you don't like that truth so you are attempting to change it to fit your view of Science that you prefer to hear.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As I said, they cannot see the whole heaven. I am getting tired of this and wish you sweet dreams.

Right, they cannot see the whole of the sky or Heaven on the other side of the planet.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@1an

Noah's ark landed on Mt. Ararat (See: Genesis 8:4). This mountain is 16,854 feet above sea level. The highest recorded civilization today is 16,700 feet.

List of highest cities - Wikipedia

So the flood was not local but it was global. For even if you wanted to make it local, it doesn't work because Mt. Ararat is included in the narrative of God's people and it would have been included among the highest hills covered as mentioned in Genesis 7. For the flood waters to cover the height of Mt. Ararat would have been enough to cover the entire world.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Babylon was not destroyed, Egypt was not destroyed... Get real man.
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These civilizations came later (after the flood); But if you believe they existed earlier, what proof do you have? Do you have a time machine?

Well, I have the Bible and it doesn’t say these civilizations existed prior to the flood.

 

[1an]

These civilizations came later (after the flood); But if you believe they existed earlier, what proof do you have? Do you have a time machine?

Well, I have the Bible and it doesn’t say these civilizations existed prior to the flood.

The Babylonians have records of floods in other places, but they were never wiped out.
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[Bible Highlighter]

The Babylonians have records of floods in other places, but they were never wiped out.
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Your not getting it. The Babylonians and the Egyptians came after the global flood.

 

[1an]

Your not getting it. The Babylonians and the Egyptians came after the global flood.

Prove it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Prove it.

The Bible mentions how these civilizations came after the flood. There is no mention of these civilizations before the global flood. That is my proof. It's the Bible.

 

[1an]

The Bible mentions how these civilizations came after the flood. There is no mention of these civilizations before the global flood. That is my proof. It's the Bible.

Show me the scriptures please. Not that it tells us the age of the earth. Simply that these civilizations existed at that time proving there were already large populations when Israel was in its infancy.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Show me the scriptures please. Not that it tells us the age of the earth. Simply that these civilizations existed at that time proving there were already large populations when Israel was in its infancy.

Babylon began after the flood because the narrative of the Tower of Babel clearly happens post flood (Compare Genesis 7 with Genesis 11).

 

[1an]

If you want to know the age of the earth, we need to look at the whole world and not the birth of the Israel nation.

Babylon began after the flood because the narrative of the Tower of Babel clearly happens post flood (Compare Genesis 7 with Genesis 11).

That does not tell us the age of the earth.
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[1an]

The Bible is about one nation, Israel, but looking at Israels history is not going to tell us the age of the earth.

This is like looking at the history of America and going back to the Mayflower in 1620 instead of going back to the Native Americans who were living there at least 15,000 years ago". (Wicki)

And you say the earth is only 10,000 years old!
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