Do you believe Donald Trump is a Christian?

[Hans Blaster]

By the way, pope Francis has said Trump is not a Christian. He who said "Who am I to judge?" has judged.

But as the inheritor of Peter, doesn't the pope have that power to declare Trump 'bound'?

 

[Kenny'sID]

I'm just trying to understand what you said. You said: "We should love, but God is aware that does not always happen...even with himself". So are you saying he wants to always love but can't always live up to that ideal, or that sometimes he just chooses to hate despite knowing that he should love? I'm not clear on what you're saying.

No, you are saying that, not me.

I actually already coverd that for you, and also told you, go with
it or not, so you can harass me all day long wih what you think is your little stumper, but again, makes no difference to me what you think or do, you have your explanation, twist it into what you like... meh

 

[Kenny'sID]

You seem like a smart guy, so I'm sure you can figure it out.

Ok, if youd rather not say.

 

[Kentonio]

No, you are saying that, not me.

I actually already coverd that for you, and also told you, go with
it or not, so you can harass me all day long wih what you think is your little stumper, but again, makes no difference to me what you think or do, you have your explanation, twist it into what you like... meh

Is asking you to clarify one of your own statements really such an onerous request? You said something, claimed it was very simple, and now seem adamant that you’re not going to explain this simple thing to me. I’m not trying to stump you over anything, I’m just asking what you meant.

 

[Petros2015]

There's that phrase many Christians use about 'being in the garage doesn't make you a car'.

 

[iluvatar5150]

What this issue comes down to is simply this--the President's most dedicated detractors are committed to saying the worst thing they can think of against him. So we get the usual "Fascist," "Racist" nonsense on a daily basis.

Most people recognize that such allegations are made mainly for the impact that such characterizations bring with them, not necessarily because they are true.

However, and at the same time, the attackers cannot admit that he's a Christian! That would counter all the other stuff that they're throwing at him. Obviously. So for that reason, they have to include the "He's not a Christian!" even if many of the accusers don't give a hoot one way or another about Christianity themselves.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Its just that Trump doesnt seem like a Christian in any way I can recognize.

More like he's making fake Christian grunts like that upside down Bible scene and using Christians to suit his purposes.

This. ^^^^

This is why I marked "no". He doesn't seem to meet any of the definitions of Christian I've seen anyone in the mainstream use. The closest he seems to get is that if he registered for CF and selected "non-denom" (as he now claims) and clicked whatever statement of faith you'se guys are required to acknowledge, then he would be an unquestionable Christian on this site. (This is a wise choice by the owners.) Since he isn't a CF poster what other criteria might we use:

1. Belief in "one triune god". This is a basic component of Trinitarian Christianity. Does Trump believe this. We've seen no expression of it from him. He may have some vague notion of a god of some kind, but what that might be is unknown.

2. "Accepts Jesus as his savior". Another common statement from Christian to indicate their alignment and belief. Again. we've seen no such expression from Trump of this either. He also seem to have at various points mocked or dismissed basic Christian practice such as communion and confession.

3. Participation in Christian worship or ritual. Many Christians consider this to be a key aspect of being a Christian (or at least one worthy of the name). Has he been initiated into his "new church"? (Doesn't seem so.) Does he go to services? (I think only a few times during his presidency and all at Xmas and [perhaps, I don't recall] Easter) Is he known to prey or ask for devine guidence? (No evidence of this. And, yes I know about the various times the preachers have come to the oval office and prayed over him.)

4. Permanent attachment. Some Christians have unbreakable ways to be labeled Christian forever. The notion of "once saved always saved" is used in some churches. (Trump has never claimed the type of saving event I've heard from so many Christians.) Some churches consider baptism (or perhaps confirmation?) to be a permanent attachment to the church) to grant permanent status in their church. He was baptized in the Presbyterian church (and confirmed, I think). Maybe the Presbyterians consider him by this to still be a member of their church. I know the RCC would still consider me to be a Catholic and they may even be counting me in at least one diocese on their census.

Short version. By the standards various kinds of christians apply, Trump does not seem to be a Christian. I am certainly not the arbiter of this, but good news for all of you out there: I (and many other non-Christians) don't pin him on you guys.

 

[dzheremi]

If he is a Christian (and I voted "I don't care", because I don't care; people can label themselves whatever they want to), then he ought to be held to at least the standards to which we hold ourselves, and since I'm not going around talking about assaulting women, or mocking disabled people, or doing many of the other things he has done which are not in keeping with what I am taught in my religion, I can say that his example does not follow the faith that he supposedly professes. The difference between Trump and me is that I know I need to go to confession and offer true repentance over my many sins, while Trump seems to think that he is God's gift to America and the world, and that things are right because he does them and he's president. How different this is than in our liturgies, where the chief celebrant proclaims himself to be the foremost of sinners!

 

[Norbert L]

At best, Trump is a Christian of convenience in order to get elected. I have seen nothing Christian in his history either past or present.

Given this Christian news article, the "nothing" strikes me as hyperbole.

6 Interesting Facts About Donald Trump's Christian Faith

Even though I voted yes by using the standards of CF where none of us can "Stating or implying that another Christian member, or group of members, are not Christian is not allowed." Basically I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, which I believe is an impartial answer.

In truth I am more concerned about looking at my proverbial mirror than his and the I don't know option is somewhat on the table too, but there again given that kind of statement, it can be skirting the line with that CF rule. As an example which I do not believe in, I could say, I don't know if JackRT is a Christian. Whether it's you, I or the other guy, that is something Jesus decides.

 

[MIDutch]

trump isn't even a decent human being, let alone a Christian one.

 

[iluvatar5150]

This. ^^^^

This is why I marked "no". He doesn't seem to meet any of the definitions of Christian I've seen anyone in the mainstream use. The closest he seems to get is that if he registered for CF and selected "non-denom" (as he now claims) and clicked whatever statement of faith you'se guys are required to acknowledge, then he would be an unquestionable Christian on this site. (This is a wise choice by the owners.) Since he isn't a CF poster what other criteria might we use:

1. Belief in "one triune god". This is a basic component of Trinitarian Christianity. Does Trump believe this. We've seen no expression of it from him. He may have some vague notion of a god of some kind, but what that might be is unknown.

2. "Accepts Jesus as his savior". Another common statement from Christian to indicate their alignment and belief. Again. we've seen no such expression from Trump of this either. He also seem to have at various points mocked or dismissed basic Christian practice such as communion and confession.

3. Participation in Christian worship or ritual. Many Christians consider this to be a key aspect of being a Christian (or at least one worthy of the name). Has he been initiated into his "new church"? (Doesn't seem so.) Does he go to services? (I think only a few times during his presidency and all at Xmas and [perhaps, I don't recall] Easter) Is he known to prey or ask for devine guidence? (No evidence of this. And, yes I know about the various times the preachers have come to the oval office and prayed over him.)

4. Permanent attachment. Some Christians have unbreakable ways to be labeled Christian forever. The notion of "once saved always saved" is used in some churches. (Trump has never claimed the type of saving event I've heard from so many Christians.) Some churches consider baptism (or perhaps confirmation?) to be a permanent attachment to the church) to grant permanent status in their church. He was baptized in the Presbyterian church (and confirmed, I think). Maybe the Presbyterians consider him by this to still be a member of their church. I know the RCC would still consider me to be a Catholic and they may even be counting me in at least one diocese on their census.

Short version. By the standards various kinds of christians apply, Trump does not seem to be a Christian. I am certainly not the arbiter of this, but good news for all of you out there: I (and many other non-Christians) don't pin him on you guys.

How bonkers is it that the atheists, seekers, and "others" in this thread are, on average, doing a better job than the self-described Christians of articulating the criteria for being a Christian?

 

[dzheremi]

How bonkers is it that the atheists, seekers, and "others" in this thread are, on average, doing a better job than the self-described Christians of articulating the criteria for being a Christian?

That's not bonkers at all. Just consider all the different varieties of Christianity we have represented here at CF, basically all of which make wildly varying claims about the means by which you can conceivably tell who is a Christian and who isn't (or who is a 'true' Christian and who isn't, or whatever). People looking in from the outside are free to just see a mass of people who accept Jesus Christ as their guide in life in some vague fashion (vague enough to fit everyone from Orthodox to non-denominational and everywhere in between).

 

[iluvatar5150]

That's not bonkers at all. Just consider all the different varieties of Christianity we have represented here at CF, basically all of which make wildly varying claims about the means by which you can conceivably tell who is a Christian and who isn't (or who is a 'true' Christian and who isn't, or whatever). People looking in from the outside are free to just see a mass of people who accept Jesus Christ as their guide in life in some vague fashion (vague enough to fit everyone from Orthodox to non-denominational and everywhere in between).

That bolded bit should be a basic criteria for those of us within the faith as well. Obviously, a lot of other details will vary, but that some folks happily ignore that basic tenet suggests that they're prioritizing politics over doctrine.

 

[dzheremi]

That bolded bit should be a basic criteria for those of us within the faith as well. Obviously, a lot of other details will vary, but that some folks happily ignore that basic tenet suggests that they're prioritizing politics over doctrine.

I don't mean to seem contrarian for the sake of proving my point, but no it shouldn't be. CF has a statement of faith already, and that statement of faith is the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed of 381 (with allowances made for the Roman Catholic/western filioque clause, as this has been a part of western Christianity since the late 6th century, at least), not some vague association with Jesus.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I don't mean to seem contrarian for the sake of proving my point, but no it shouldn't be. CF has a statement of faith already, and that statement of faith is the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed of 381 (with allowances made for the Roman Catholic/western filioque clause, as this has been a part of western Christianity since the late 6th century, at least), not some vague association with Jesus.

If I understand you correctly, what you're arguing is more restrictive than what I'm arguing, i.e. that the self-described Christians here ought to have a higher standard than some vague guidance inspired by Jesus.

If that's your argument, then great - that just bolsters my earlier point even more, that the non-Christians are applying a lower-than-appropriate standard for "Christian" and are still doing a better job than many of the self-described Christians.

 

[Hank77]

(Remember what God said about how he will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse them)

I don't agree with your interpretation of who Israel/the Israel of God is.

 

[dzheremi]

If I understand you correctly, what you're arguing is more restrictive than what I'm arguing, i.e. that the self-described Christians here ought to have a higher standard than some vague guidance inspired by Jesus.

If that's your argument, then great - that just bolsters my earlier point even more, that the non-Christians are applying a lower-than-appropriate standard for "Christian" and are still doing a better job than many of the self-described Christians.

That's not what your post said. There's nothing about non-believers having a lower-than-appropriate standard in that post (#91). But okay. Now that you've included that bit, I guess you're correct about that, though it doesn't really mean much to say that 'many self-described Christians' can't do a better job, since anyone can be a self-described anything when they're setting their own standard for what that means. That's why we have the Nicene Creed in the first place.

 

[Triumvirate]

How bonkers is it that the atheists, seekers, and "others" in this thread are, on average, doing a better job than the self-described Christians of articulating the criteria for being a Christian?

It's not bonkers, it's standard.

Happy to keep showing people how it's done.

 

[cow451]

This statement is likely true because it seems Trump may be actually a Christian, just as Obama is indeed likely to be a Muslim.

And both are terrible at it an gave it a bad name....

 

[FireDragon76]

And?

You can't speak for all Christians.

I was raised Christian. I was never taught that God hates anyone.