Do you believe Christmas is pagan?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

No, I did not miss it. The meaning of the name didn't change just because the language and pronunciation changed. Joshua in the Old Testament is called Iesous in the Septuagint. Iesous is what the apostles called him in the gospels. If they intended him to be called Yeshua, they would have called him such. After all, you have no problem trying to impose the Hebrew pronunciation in your English. I'm sure they could have done the same thing if they felt it was necessary.

Yes, you DID miss it. You don't know do you.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The day leading up to the last supper ...

Mark 14:12 — And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Luke 22:7-8 — Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

According to you ...
So if the lambs are killed on the 14th, and the last supper was the evening following the day when they killed the passover, then the last supper was on the 14th. Jesus was crucified the next day. What part of this is eluding you? What is it, exactly, that you don't understand? What logic are you employing that has Jesus eating the last supper on the 14th, and being crucified on the 14th?

The 14th began after sunset of the 13th. The last supper was NOT on the 15th. Yeshua was already in the grave. You have no understanding at all regarding the dates in question, because if you did, you would not have such a ridiculous theory.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I say that confusion and division is of the devil, and it is.

Well you sure are confused and definitely promoting division!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Or are you trying to suggest with this ridiculous post that the last supper took place on the 14th, after sunset, and that was the beginning of the 14th, carrying over into the next day?

If that's what you're saying, then you need to read a history book. You have no clue what you're talking about. It was unlawful to kill the passover lamb at night. They killed the passover about the ninth hour of the day, on the afternoon of the 14th.

What we disagree on is WHEN the last supper occurred, WHAT the last supper was and WHEN Yeshua was killed. YOU say the last supper was at the beginning of the 15th and He died during the day on the 15th...and raised when? I am saying the last supper (it was a Pesakh Seudah HaMephsekhet) was at the beginning of the 14th, He died when the lambs were killed during the day on the 14th and was buried before sunset on the 14th. He rested in the tomb on the 15th and rose on the 16th. Pesakh is the 14th and the 1st of unleavened is on the 15th.

"In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at dusk is the LORD's Passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD; seven days ye shall eat unleavened bread. In the first day ye shall have a holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work." Nothing of the sacrifice can be left by sunrise on the 15th. One had to be careful not to break any bones from the offering, and none of the meat could be left over by morning. On the 16th, the counting of the omer began as well as the presentation of the wave sheaf offering...Yom HaBikkurim, the day Yeshua resurrected. Your timeline is just plain wrong.

 

[AFrazier]

@Yeshua HaDerekh

• Are you saying, then, that Peter and John did not prepare the passover?

Matthew 26:19 – And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.

Mark 14:16 – And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

Luke 22:13 – And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

• Are you saying that the lambs are killed on the 13th?

Mark 14:12 – And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Luke 22:7 – Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

• Are you saying that Jesus instructed Peter and John to break the law by preparing the passover outside of its proper time?

Luke 22:8 – And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

• Are you saying that Jesus misspoke when he stated that he would keep the passover at the place they were going for the last supper?

Matthew 26:18 – And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.

Mark 14:14 – And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

--------------------

I feel like I'm trapped in a Who's on First skit with you. You have to be either dense or willfully ignorant to not see that Jesus ate the passover at the last supper, that the afternoon leading up to the last supper was the 14th day, and that by default, the crucifixion was on the 15th. The ONLY thing in defiance of these facts is a theological interpretation insisting that Jesus had to die on the day the lambs died. But theology doesn't dictate chronology. The facts are clear as day.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

@Yeshua HaDerekh

• Are you saying, then, that Peter and John did not prepare the passover?

Matthew 26:19 – And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.

Mark 14:16 – And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

Luke 22:13 – And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

• Are you saying that the lambs are killed on the 13th?

Mark 14:12 – And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Luke 22:7 – Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

• Are you saying that Jesus instructed Peter and John to break the law by preparing the passover outside of its proper time?

Luke 22:8 – And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

• Are you saying that Jesus misspoke when he stated that he would keep the passover at the place they were going for the last supper?

Matthew 26:18 – And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.

Mark 14:14 – And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

--------------------

I feel like I'm trapped in a Who's on First skit with you. You have to be either dense or willfully ignorant to not see that Jesus ate the passover at the last supper, that the afternoon leading up to the last supper was the 14th day, and that by default, the crucifixion was on the 15th. The ONLY thing in defiance of these facts is a theological interpretation insisting that Jesus had to die on the day the lambs died. But theology doesn't dictate chronology. The facts are clear as day.

I already put my chronology here so I am not sure why you are asking questions I have already answered. The Passover is killed on the 14th. I have already explained to you that He could NOT have been killed on the 15th. Under your understanding the lamb is killed on the first of unleavened. That is the 15th. The correct chronology is quite clear from the scriptures below.

It was just before the Passover Festival. Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father...The evening meal was in progress, and the devil had already prompted Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus. So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.” But no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him. Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the festival, or to give something to the poor.

Then the Jewish leaders took Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness they did not enter the palace, because they wanted to be able to eat the Passover. So Pilate came out to them and asked, “What charges are you bringing against this man?”

When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge’s seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic) is Gabbatha). It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon. Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath (the 15th). Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

You obviously didn't read my post. Here it is again with the pertinent parts highlighted.

II. The shepherds did stay in the fields in December.

"Equally so was the belief that He (the birth of Messiah) was to be revealed from Migdal Eder, the 'tower of the flock.' This Migdal Eder was not the watch-tower for the ordinary flocks which pastured on the barren sheep ground beyond Bethlehem, but lay close to the town, on the road to Jerusalem. A passage in the Mishnah leads to the conclusion that the flocks, which pastured there, were destined for the temple-sacrifices, and, accordingly, that the shepherds, who watched over them, were not ordinary shepherds. The latter were under the ban of Rabbinism on account of their necessary isolation from religious ordinances, and their manner of life which rendered strict legal observance unlikely, if not impossible. The same Mishnic passage also leads us to infer that these flocks lay out all the year round, since they are spoken of as in the fields thirty days before the Passover--that is in the month of February when in Palestine the average rainfall is nearly greatest." Edersheim.

Sorry it is another counterfeit of the truth by Satan

December 25th is a pagan holiday christianized

…built a splendid temple of the sun in Rome... and set the sun's birthday
celebration (naturalis solis invicti) on December 25…
("The Shocking Pagan Origin of Christmas!", n. d., p. 5)[2]

they... believed a lie... (and now) had pleasure
in unrighteousness. (II Thess. 2:11-12)

...(the Roman Emperor) Aurelian strengthened the position of the Sun
god Sol Invictus as the main divinity of the Roman pantheon. His
intention was to give to all the peoples of the Empire, civilian or
soldiers, easterners or westerners, a single god they could believe in
without betraying their own gods.
("Aurelian", n. d., p. 8)[1]

In 313 Constantine issued the "Edict of Milan," which commanded
official toleration of Christianity and other religions… Constantine's
program was one of toleration only, and he continued to support both
Christianity and paganism.
("Conversion of Constantine: Constantine Becomes a
Christian", n. d., p. 1)[3]

In the time of Constantine the cult of Deus Sol Invictus was still at its
height, and the portrait of the sun-god was on the coins of
Constantine....
("The Shocking Pagan Origin of Christmas!", n. d., p. 5)[4]

We see, by looking at an actual coin of the approximate period (above), the
image of Constantine (left) and a crowned, pagan god - holding a globe in
his hand (on the right) - was still to be etched onto his coinage. The former
worship would still continue on; as one form or another.
This solitary god’s name was Deus Sol Invictus… which means “the god”
(Deus) of the “sun” (Sol) who was “unconquered” (Invictus) - the
unconquered sun god. This sun god’s viceroy, Tammuz (or Nimrod), of
course, could also be considered “unconquered” because, as we know, he
was first considered a martyred moral. The sun-god brought him back to
life. So, thanks to this sun-god, Tammuz was never conquered by death -
not completely! He was a god, now: the one who actually did the
conquering over death! And, the time of his birthday would be celebrated
on December 25th… 9-or-so months after the time of his conception; at
Easter! We have the following admission, regarding Christmas:


December 25 was referred to in documents as Christmas Day in A.D.
324 for the first time. Under the Roman emperor Justinian [A.D. 527-
565] it was recognized as an official holiday. An old Roman festival
played a major part in the choice of this particular day.
("The Shocking Pagan Origin of Christmas!", n. d., p. 2)[5]


And,


December 25 in ancient Rome was the 'Dies Natali Invictus,' 'the
birthday of the unconquered (sun)?'… the last day of the Saturnalia...
("The Shocking Pagan Origin of Christmas!", n. d., p. 2)[6]

The Babylonian Connection to Christmas

 

[AFrazier]

I already put my chronology here so I am not sure why you are asking questions I have already answered. The Passover is killed on the 14th. I have already explained to you that He could NOT have been killed on the 15th. Under your understanding the lamb is killed on the first of unleavened. That is the 15th. The correct chronology is quite clear from the scriptures below.

It was just before the Passover Festival. Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father...The evening meal was in progress, and the devil had already prompted Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus. So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.” But no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him. Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the festival, or to give something to the poor.

Then the Jewish leaders took Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness they did not enter the palace, because they wanted to be able to eat the Passover. So Pilate came out to them and asked, “What charges are you bringing against this man?”

When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge’s seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic) is Gabbatha). It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon. Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath (the 15th). Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.

First, you need a better translation. The next day was not to be a special Sabbath, but a special day. The actual text reads, "for great was the day of that Sabbath." Feel free to check the Greek for yourself. And the day of that Sabbath was to be a great day because it was the 16th; first fruits and the waving of the sheaf.

Second, the paska referred to in John was the Chagigah, killed and eaten on the 15th. Reference to it is in Deuteronomy 16:2: "Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the passover unto the Lord thy God, of the flock and the herd, in the place which the Lord shall choose to place his name there," differentiated in this case by the reference to sacrificing animals from the herd. Only goats and sheep were to be sacrificed on the 14th. Cattle and other herd animals were not viable sacrifices, except as Chagigah.

And it is worth saying that the priests would have only been unclean until even according to Leviticus 22:1-9. It is only the Chagigah that they would have been unable to eat, because they are forbidden to bring the offering if they are unclean, and ritual cleansing concerning festive offerings, or Chagigah, required the purification to begin after sunrise of the following day (Chagigah 43a-b).

Third, I am asking questions because you are contradicting yourself. The disciples came to Jesus on the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, and asked him where he wanted them to prepare the passover. Jesus told them to go find a certain man, tell him that Jesus would keep the passover at his house in the guest chamber, and that they should go and prepare the passover so they could eat. They then went and prepared the passover.

YOU are saying that Jesus was killed on the 14th, when the lambs are slain. The SCRIPTURES are saying that Jesus was alive and well on the day when the lambs were slain. YOU say that the lambs are killed on the 14th, and the SCRIPTURES are saying that on that very same day you claim is the 14th, the last supper had not yet occurred.

Are the lambs slain on the 14th or not? Because it was the day the lambs were slain that preceded the last supper. And if the day the lambs were slain is the 14th, and the disciples prepared the last supper that same evening following that afternoon, then the last supper followed the afternoon of the 14th day. You have to choose between your interpretation and theology and the scriptures. They DO NOT agree with you. The passover lambs were not killed on the afternoon of the 13th. They were killed on the afternoon of the 14th.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

First, you need a better translation. The next day was not to be a special Sabbath, but a special day. The actual text reads, "for great was the day of that Sabbath." Feel free to check the Greek for yourself. And the day of that Sabbath was to be a great day because it was the 16th; first fruits and the waving of the sheaf.

Second, the paska referred to in John was the Chagigah, killed and eaten on the 15th. Reference to it is in Deuteronomy 16:2: "Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the passover unto the Lord thy God, of the flock and the herd, in the place which the Lord shall choose to place his name there," differentiated in this case by the reference to sacrificing animals from the herd. Only goats and sheep were to be sacrificed on the 14th. Cattle and other herd animals were not viable sacrifices, except as Chagigah.

And it is worth saying that the priests would have only been unclean until even according to Leviticus 22:1-9. It is only the Chagigah that they would have been unable to eat, because they are forbidden to bring the offering if they are unclean, and ritual cleansing concerning festive offerings, or Chagigah, required the purification to begin after sunrise of the following day (Chagigah 43a-b).

Third, I am asking questions because you are contradicting yourself. The disciples came to Jesus on the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, and asked him where he wanted them to prepare the passover. Jesus told them to go find a certain man, tell him that Jesus would keep the passover at his house in the guest chamber, and that they should go and prepare the passover so they could eat. They then went and prepared the passover.

YOU are saying that Jesus was killed on the 14th, when the lambs are slain. The SCRIPTURES are saying that Jesus was alive and well on the day when the lambs were slain. YOU say that the lambs are killed on the 14th, and the SCRIPTURES are saying that on that very same day you claim is the 14th, the last supper had not yet occurred.

Are the lambs slain on the 14th or not? Because it was the day the lambs were slain that preceded the last supper. And if the day the lambs were slain is the 14th, and the disciples prepared the last supper that same evening following that afternoon, then the last supper followed the afternoon of the 14th day. You have to choose between your interpretation and theology and the scriptures. They DO NOT agree with you. The passover lambs were not killed on the afternoon of the 13th. They were killed on the afternoon of the 14th.

The 15th was the weekly Sabbath as well as the 1st of unleavened. Sunday was the 16th. I have read the Greek, that is how I know you are wrong. I posted a generic translation. No I am saying the lambs were killed on the 14th, unleavened was the 15th and Yom HaBikkurim was the 16th...these are Scriptural and historical FACTS. The "last supper" was on the evening of the 13th/14th...NOT on the 14th/15th. It was a Seudah HaMephsekhet (literally the last meal or supper before the fast of the firstborn from sunrise to sunset of the 14th). The lambs are NOT killed on the 15th, the first of unleavened. They are killed on Pesakh, the 14th. Also, IF it were unleavened, the Passover would already be over so why would Yeshua ask to go and prepare the Passover meal? Now on the "first day of the Feast of the Unleavened Bread" the disciples came to Jesus, saying to Him, ‘Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover?'" This could not be the first day of Unleavened Bread because no customary work is to be done on it. If it were, the disciples would not use it to prepare for the Passover. The word "protos" is the key here. Even Luke 23:17 says it was the 14th that Yeshua died on! It could NOT have been on the 15th.

 

[AFrazier]

The 15th was the weekly Sabbath as well as the 1st of unleavened. Sunday was the 16th. I have read the Greek, that is how I know you are wrong. I posted a generic translation. No I am saying the lambs were killed on the 14th, unleavened was the 15th and Yom HaBikkurim was the 16th...these are Scriptural and historical FACTS. The "last supper" was on the evening of the 13th/14th...NOT on the 14th/15th. It was a Seudah HaMephsekhet (literally the last meal or supper before the fast of the firstborn from sunrise to sunset of the 14th). The lambs are NOT killed on the 15th, the first of unleavened. They are killed on Pesakh, the 14th. Also, IF it were unleavened, the Passover would already be over so why would Yeshua ask to go and prepare the Passover meal? Now on the "first day of the Feast of the Unleavened Bread" the disciples came to Jesus, saying to Him, ‘Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover?'" This could not be the first day of Unleavened Bread because no customary work is to be done on it. If it were, the disciples would not use it to prepare for the Passover. The word "protos" is the key here. Even Luke 23:17 says it was the 14th that Yeshua died on! It could NOT have been on the 15th.

Look, I just don't know what to say to you. The afternoon preceding the last supper was the 14th day of the month. Here are the scriptures:

Mark 14:12 – And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Luke 22:7 – Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

The conclusions I've come to are not my opinion or interpretation. This is not my "view" on the subject. This is what it says in black and white.

On the first day of unleavened bread (Mark 14:12, Luke 22:7), which was the 14th day of the month (Exodus 12:18), when they killed the passover (Mark 14:12, Luke 22:7), which was killed on the 14th day of the month (Exodus 12:6), beginning at the ninth hour of the day (Pesachim 58a; cf Yoma 28b; Joseph BJ 6.423), the disciples came to Jesus inquiring where he wanted them to prepare so they could eat the passover (Mark 14:12, Luke 22:7). Jesus told them to go find a certain man and tell him that the Master would keep the passover in his guest chamber (Matthew 26:18, Mark 14:14), and to make ready the passover (Luke 22:8). They did as instructed and made ready the passover (Matthew 26:19, Mark 14:16, Luke 22:13). Later that night, Jesus was arrested.

Early in the morning, the next day, Jesus was brought before Pontius Pilate, condemned, and then crucified sometime between the third and sixth hour of the day (Matthew 27:1-35, Mark 15:1-25, Luke 22:66-23:33, John 18:28-19:18).

The afternoon preceding the last supper was the 14th. Jesus was arrested that night. The day after the 14th is the 15th. Jesus was crucified on the 15th.

Disagree with the scriptures all you like. Disagree with history all you like. Ignore the rabbinical literature as you please. I can't control any of these things. But I've had enough of this argument. I've studied this topic for the better part of twenty years. I have the facts. I did the homework. YOU don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Not David]

Sorry it is another counterfeit of the truth by Satan

December 25th is a pagan holiday christianized

…built a splendid temple of the sun in Rome... and set the sun's birthday
celebration (naturalis solis invicti) on December 25…
("The Shocking Pagan Origin of Christmas!", n. d., p. 5)[2]

they... believed a lie... (and now) had pleasure
in unrighteousness. (II Thess. 2:11-12)

...(the Roman Emperor) Aurelian strengthened the position of the Sun
god Sol Invictus as the main divinity of the Roman pantheon. His
intention was to give to all the peoples of the Empire, civilian or
soldiers, easterners or westerners, a single god they could believe in
without betraying their own gods.
("Aurelian", n. d., p. 8)[1]

In 313 Constantine issued the "Edict of Milan," which commanded
official toleration of Christianity and other religions… Constantine's
program was one of toleration only, and he continued to support both
Christianity and paganism.
("Conversion of Constantine: Constantine Becomes a
Christian", n. d., p. 1)[3]

In the time of Constantine the cult of Deus Sol Invictus was still at its
height, and the portrait of the sun-god was on the coins of
Constantine....
("The Shocking Pagan Origin of Christmas!", n. d., p. 5)[4]

We see, by looking at an actual coin of the approximate period (above), the
image of Constantine (left) and a crowned, pagan god - holding a globe in
his hand (on the right) - was still to be etched onto his coinage. The former
worship would still continue on; as one form or another.
This solitary god’s name was Deus Sol Invictus… which means “the god”
(Deus) of the “sun” (Sol) who was “unconquered” (Invictus) - the
unconquered sun god. This sun god’s viceroy, Tammuz (or Nimrod), of
course, could also be considered “unconquered” because, as we know, he
was first considered a martyred moral. The sun-god brought him back to
life. So, thanks to this sun-god, Tammuz was never conquered by death -
not completely! He was a god, now: the one who actually did the
conquering over death! And, the time of his birthday would be celebrated
on December 25th… 9-or-so months after the time of his conception; at
Easter! We have the following admission, regarding Christmas:


December 25 was referred to in documents as Christmas Day in A.D.
324 for the first time. Under the Roman emperor Justinian [A.D. 527-
565] it was recognized as an official holiday. An old Roman festival
played a major part in the choice of this particular day.
("The Shocking Pagan Origin of Christmas!", n. d., p. 2)[5]


And,


December 25 in ancient Rome was the 'Dies Natali Invictus,' 'the
birthday of the unconquered (sun)?'… the last day of the Saturnalia...
("The Shocking Pagan Origin of Christmas!", n. d., p. 2)[6]

The Babylonian Connection to Christmas

More Anti-Catholic Propaganda regarding Constantine!
Where did you get that, from Jack Chick?

 

[Original Happy Camper]

More Anti-Catholic Propaganda regarding Constantine!
Where did you get that, from Jack Chick?

History

 

[Original Happy Camper]

More Anti-Catholic Propaganda regarding Constantine!
Where did you get that, from Jack Chick?

THE COLCHESTER ARCHAEOLOGICAL TRUST ONLINE
25th December: the Roman festival of sun god Sol Invictus


Today (25th December) is the day in the later Roman empire when people celebrated the winter solstice and the birthday of the sun god Sol Invictus: the day was called ‘dies natalis Invicti’. Sol Invictus (the ‘unconquered sun’ or ‘unconquerable sun’) drove a racing-chariot (quadriga) drawn by four horses. The Romans interpreted the sun as Sol racing his quadrigaacross the sky from sunrise to sunset… Sol was associated with Luna, the goddess of the moon, who drove a chariot (biga) drawn by two horses. Chariot-races for both quadrigae and bigae were presented in Roman circuses. The Circus Maximus in Rome included a temple of Sol (dedicated to Sol Invictus) and a temple of Luna: the temple of Sol included a statue of Sol driving his quadriga and four horses. Roman circuses around the Roman empire featured statues of Sol and Luna in their central barriers. The central barrier (spina) of the Circus Maximus also featured an Egyptian obelisk which represented a shaft of sunlight and was dedicated to Sol.

 

[Not David]

THE COLCHESTER ARCHAEOLOGICAL TRUST ONLINE
25th December: the Roman festival of sun god Sol Invictus


Today (25th December) is the day in the later Roman empire when people celebrated the winter solstice and the birthday of the sun god Sol Invictus: the day was called ‘dies natalis Invicti’. Sol Invictus (the ‘unconquered sun’ or ‘unconquerable sun’) drove a racing-chariot (quadriga) drawn by four horses. The Romans interpreted the sun as Sol racing his quadrigaacross the sky from sunrise to sunset… Sol was associated with Luna, the goddess of the moon, who drove a chariot (biga) drawn by two horses. Chariot-races for both quadrigae and bigae were presented in Roman circuses. The Circus Maximus in Rome included a temple of Sol (dedicated to Sol Invictus) and a temple of Luna: the temple of Sol included a statue of Sol driving his quadriga and four horses. Roman circuses around the Roman empire featured statues of Sol and Luna in their central barriers. The central barrier (spina) of the Circus Maximus also featured an Egyptian obelisk which represented a shaft of sunlight and was dedicated to Sol.

The first reference to Christmas been celebrated in December the 25th comes from Hyppolytus of Rome, in his Commentary on the book of Daniel (c. A.D. 204):

For the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, but from Adam, five thousand and five hundred years. He suffered in the thirty-third year, March 25th, Friday, the eighteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, while Rufus and Roubellion were Consuls.

The Chronography of 354 is the earliest mention of any pagan god being celebrated on December 25.
(All of this comes from Catholic Answers).

 

[Not David]

History

That the Christians worshipped on Sunday is historical.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

That the Christians worshipped on Sunday is historical.

Exodus 20:8-10
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God:
(His Sabbath not mans)

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7:7
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Colossians 2:22
Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?


Matthew 7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

(All of this comes from Catholic Answers).

(all below come from Catholic publications or priests)

In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, (Written by Peter Geiermann, C. SS. R. with the aim of clearly presenting Catholic doctrine to non-Catholics)we read:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!
—Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.

In Catholic Christian Instructed,
Q. Has the [Catholic] church power to make any alterations in the commandments of God?
A. ...Instead of the seventh day, and other festivals appointed by the old law, the church has prescribed the Sundays and holy days to be set apart for God’s worship; and these we are now obliged to keep in consequence of God’s commandment, instead of the ancient Sabbath.
—The Catholic Christian Instructed in the Sacraments, Sacrifices, Ceremonies, and Observances of the Church By Way of Question and Answer, RT Rev. Dr. Challoner, p. 204.

James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), in a signed letter.

"Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day -Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes . Did Christ change the day'? I answer no!

"Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons"

 

[~Anastasia~]

It wasn't in the fourth century (though it may have been discussed in council then). We have been meeting on the first day of the week since the very beginning of the Church, because that's the day Christ visited the Apostles after His resurrection, and again the folllwing week ...

Saturday is still the Sabbath. But Sunday is the Lord's Day.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

But Sunday is the Lord's Day.

Bible text to support this please.
Is Sunday a day made Holy by GOD?

 

[~Anastasia~]

Bible text to support this please.
Is Sunday a day made Holy by GOD?

Do you judge that Jesus resurrecting from the dead and appearing to the Apostles on Sunday is enough to make that day holy?

The early Church apparently did.