Do you believe Christmas is pagan?

Not David

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Exodus 20:8-10
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God:
(His Sabbath not mans)

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7:7
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Colossians 2:22
Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?


Matthew 7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Your own interpretation that no one thought about until the 1800s.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Do you judge that Jesus resurrecting from the dead and appearing to the Apostles on Sunday is enough to make that day holy?

The early Church apparently did.

I do not.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Your own interpretation that no one thought about until the 1800s.

Except Jesus Christ in the Garden of Eden

Genesis 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Not the first day of the week.

sanctify
verb


Definition of sanctify


transitive verb

1: to set apart to a sacred purpose or to religious use : CONSECRATE
2: to free from sin : PURIFY
3a: to impart or impute sacredness, inviolability, or respect to
b: to give moral or social sanction to
4: to make productive of holiness or piety

Please show me from scripture where GOD blessed and sanctified the first day.
 
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Not David

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Except Jesus Christ in the Garden of Eden

Genesis 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Not the first day of the week.

sanctify
verb


Definition of sanctify


transitive verb

1: to set apart to a sacred purpose or to religious use : CONSECRATE
2: to free from sin : PURIFY
3a: to impart or impute sacredness, inviolability, or respect to
b: to give moral or social sanction to
4: to make productive of holiness or piety

Please show me from scripture where GOD blessed and sanctified the first day.
Yep, you are still following your interpretations.
 
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Daisybell

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There are many Christians that think its pagan, and that Jesus wasn't born on the 25th of December. I always did find Christmas weird as a kid, but I am not a person who really is that knowledgeable about it.
Some say its not pagan and that Jesus was born in the 25. Some say it is and that Jesus was probably born before December even happened.
I've seen a snapshot of both sides of the argument so far. I am undecided, and I'll just choose to stick with the Bible and not celebrate since I don't know what Christmas really is.

I hope this helps you understand:
Booklet
IS CHRISTMAS CHRISTIAN?
video
IS CHRISTMAS CHRISTIAN?

The fact that Christmas is of pagan origin is not particularly controversial—as popular encyclopedias attest. Note what the Encyclopaedia Britannica says about it. "Its observance as the birthday of the Saviour is attended with secular customs often drawn from pagan sources; indeed, Christmas and Epiphany, which falls 12 days later on January 6, are transformed pagan celebrations of the winter solstice, so closely linked that their origins cannot be discussed separately.
"December 25 in Rome—This was the date of a pagan festival in Rome, chosen in 274ad by the Emperor Aurelian as the birthday of the unconquered sun (natalis solis invicti), which at the winter solstice begins again to show an increase of light. At some point before 336ad the church at Rome established the commemoration of the birthday of Christ, the sun of righteousness on the same date.




 
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Not David

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I hope this helps you understand:
Booklet
IS CHRISTMAS CHRISTIAN?
video
IS CHRISTMAS CHRISTIAN?

The fact that Christmas is of pagan origin is not particularly controversial—as popular encyclopedias attest. Note what the Encyclopaedia Britannica says about it. "Its observance as the birthday of the Saviour is attended with secular customs often drawn from pagan sources; indeed, Christmas and Epiphany, which falls 12 days later on January 6, are transformed pagan celebrations of the winter solstice, so closely linked that their origins cannot be discussed separately.
"December 25 in Rome—This was the date of a pagan festival in Rome, chosen in 274ad by the Emperor Aurelian as the birthday of the unconquered sun (natalis solis invicti), which at the winter solstice begins again to show an increase of light. At some point before 336ad the church at Rome established the commemoration of the birthday of Christ, the sun of righteousness on the same date.



The first mention of Christmas is in 204 by Hippolytus of Rome.
 
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~Anastasia~

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I do not.
That's too bad. As I said, the early Christians did, from the time of the Apostles. Writings refer to it as "the Lord's Day" (which St. John mentions), and they would particularly gather on the "first day of the week" (which was Sunday). Sometimes also mentioned as "the eighth day" in reference to the coming Kingdom. Christianity has held Sunday worship since the early times, as attested to writings of St. Iraneus, St. Justin Martyr, and others.

But that is off topic for this thread.
 
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AFrazier

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Mention of Christians coming together on Sunday goes all the way back to the beginning of the church.

Acts 20:7 – And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1 Corinthians 16:1-2 – Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Furthermore, it was common practice in the beginning to go to the temple every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday.

Acts 2:42-47 – And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. [...] And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart [...].

And none of this matters anyway.

Colossians 2:16 – Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days.

Romans 14:4-10 – Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? [...] One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. [...] For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

And in the end, laws concerning the Sabbath passed upon Christ's death. The Old Covenant was annulled, and then replaced. So we're no longer subject to the law of Moses.

Hebrews 10:9-10 – Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Acts 20:7 – And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

In the Bible the days are reckoned as "the evening and the morning were the first day" ect.. and he preached till midnight,, so this was after the Sabbath. Paul would not violate the sacredness of the Holy day by traveling as the verse says " ready to depart on the morrows"
The folks knew he was leaving and wanted to hear more from him before he left.

There is no mention that this was a Holy day.

Acts 24:14
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Paul does not contradict Paul or GOD.

GOD spoke these verses below
Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Exodus 31:13
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

Deuteronomy 8:3
And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Notice these verses
Matthew 7:13-14 King James Version (KJV)
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

You would do well for yourself to study the Sabbath yourself from the Bible.
Believe GOD not man that you might be saved.
Do you want to be sanctified?

Here is a Biblical Bible study to assist you in your search.

Written in Stone! | Bible Study Guides | Amazing Facts
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Acts 20:7 – And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

In the Bible the days are reckoned as "the evening and the morning were the first day" ect.. and he preached till midnight,, so this was after the Sabbath. Paul would not violate the sacredness of the Holy day by traveling as the verse says " ready to depart on the morrows"
The folks knew he was leaving and wanted to hear more from him before he left.

There is no mention that this was a Holy day.

Acts 24:14
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Paul does not contradict Paul or GOD.

GOD spoke these verses below
Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Exodus 31:13
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

Deuteronomy 8:3
And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Notice these verses
Matthew 7:13-14 King James Version (KJV)
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

You would do well for yourself to study the Sabbath yourself from the Bible.
Believe GOD not man that you might be saved.
Do you want to be sanctified?

Here is a Biblical Bible study to assist you in your search.

Written in Stone! | Bible Study Guides | Amazing Facts
 
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SolomonVII

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Christmas is not just a religious holy day. It is a cultural norm in Wester societies. It brings diverse people together in the spirit of joy and sharing and hope.

Yes, as the Roman Empire became Christian, the norms of Rome became Christianized. As Saturn and Odin and Isis all the gods of paganism were forgotten, the One True God of Israel became remembered in all the ways that people of former pagan lands went about their daily life.
Christianity did not change the seasons or the physical environment. The sun still rose in the east and still set in the west. Decembers were still dark and gloomy in the Northern hemisphere, and Junes were still warm and bright and filled with life that the Sun brings to chlorophyll based vegetative matter. Spring time was still the time of planting, and fall still the time of harvest, and woe to the farmers that forgot that along with the pagan gods that they once assumed to be the driving forces of nature. People still went about their lives being grateful for good crops in October and remembering hope in the dead of winter.

Christ is our hope. When the world is at its darkest, a child is born.

That is what Christmas means to Christians.

What is the point of going about smashing the norms that have allowed Christians to share our joy and our hope with the outside world since as long as there has been Christians? The fragmentation and tribalization of society by destroying the norms of the celebration of Christmas is as much on the head of these modern self-righteous Cromwellians as it is on any atheist who shares the same aims with this norm-busting Christian crowd.

Crawl back in your basements then and eat your turkey dinner alone in the dark from a can, if that is what suits you better than joining in on the fun. Please don't make us a part of your curmudgeonly bad mood though.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Look, I just don't know what to say to you. The afternoon preceding the last supper was the 14th day of the month. Here are the scriptures:

Mark 14:12 – And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Luke 22:7 – Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

The conclusions I've come to are not my opinion or interpretation. This is not my "view" on the subject. This is what it says in black and white.

On the first day of unleavened bread (Mark 14:12, Luke 22:7), which was the 14th day of the month (Exodus 12:18), when they killed the passover (Mark 14:12, Luke 22:7), which was killed on the 14th day of the month (Exodus 12:6), beginning at the ninth hour of the day (Pesachim 58a; cf Yoma 28b; Joseph BJ 6.420), the disciples came to Jesus inquiring where he wanted them to prepare so they could eat the passover (Mark 14:12, Luke 22:7). Jesus told them to go find a certain man and tell him that the Master would keep the passover in his guest chamber (Matthew 26:18, Mark 14:14), and to make ready the passover (Luke 22:8). They did as instructed and made ready the passover (Matthew 26:19, Mark 14:16, Luke 22:13). Later that night, Jesus was arrested.

Early in the morning, the next day, Jesus was brought before Pontius Pilate, condemned, and then crucified sometime between the third and sixth hour of the day (Matthew 27:1-35, Mark 15:1-25, Luke 22:66-23:33, John 18:28-19:18).

The afternoon preceding the last supper was the 14th. Jesus was arrested that night. The day after the 14th is the 15th. Jesus was crucified on the 15th.

Disagree with the scriptures all you like. Disagree with history all you like. Ignore the rabbinical literature as you please. I can't control any of these things. But I've had enough of this argument. I've studied this topic for the better part of twenty years. I have the facts. I did the homework. YOU don't know what you're talking about.

Look, you can keep repeating your theory but it does NOT match scripture nor historical accounts. Josephus even disagrees with as I have shown, yet all you do is ignore everything presented to you. I guess you wasted 20 years. If Yeshua dies on the 15th as you say, and Yom HaBikkurim was on the 16th, He would have been in the tomb only over 1 night if that! Do you really expect anyone to buy into that? We know for a fact you are wrong because we have testimony on the correct chronology of the events from the eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus! You have no leg to stand on...you have sooooo many holes in your theory it looks like swiss cheese.
 
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AFrazier

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Look, you can keep repeating your theory but it does NOT match scripture nor historical accounts.
It is not a theory. That's what you don't seem to grasp. What I have shared IS the scripture, and IS the historical account. But since it doesn't seem to be sinking in for you, let me instead give you a version of what I've been saying made from direct scripture, with no paraphrasing on my part.

And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover (Mark 14:12; cf. Luke 22:7), his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover? (Mark 14:12; cf. Matthew 26:17, Luke 22:7-9) And he sendeth forth two of his disciples (Mark 14:13), Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat (Luke 22:8). Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house (Luke 22:11 cf. Mark 14:14), The Master saith unto thee (Matthew 26:18, Mark 14:14, Luke 22:11), My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples (Matthew 26:18). Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples (Luke 22:10-11; cf. Mark 14:14)? And he will show you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us (Mark 14:15; cf. Luke 22:12). And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover (Mark 14:16; cf. Luke 22:13, Matthew 26:19). And in the evening (Mark 14:17), when the hour was come (Luke 22:14), he cometh with the twelve (Mark 14:17), and sat down with the [...] apostles (Luke 22:14, Matthew 26:20). And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer (Luke 22:14). And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me (Matthew 26:21; Mark 14:18, Luke 22:21).

Concerning "And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover (Mark 14:12; cf. Luke 22:7)":

Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house [...] And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even. (Exodus 12:3, 6, 18).

Concerning the time of day:

Mishnah: The [afternoon] Tamid is slaughtered at eight and a half hours and is offered at nine and a half hours. On the eve of passover it is slaughtered at seven and a half hours and offered at eight and a half hours, whether it is a weekday or the sabbath. If the eve of passover fell, on sabbath eve [Friday], it is slaughtered at six and a half hours and offered at seven and a half hours, and the passover offering after it (Tal. Pesachim 58a; cf. Yoma 28b).

So these high priests, upon the coming of that feast which is called the Passover, when they slay their sacrifices, from the ninth hour till the eleventh, but so that a company not less than ten belong to every sacrifice, (for it is not lawful for them to feast singly by themselves), and many of us are twenty in a company [...] (Joseph BJ 6.423).

If Yeshua dies on the 15th as you say, and Yom HaBikkurim was on the 16th, He would have been in the tomb only over 1 night if that! Do you really expect anyone to buy into that? We know for a fact you are wrong because we have testimony on the correct chronology of the events from the eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus! You have no leg to stand on...you have sooooo many holes in your theory it looks like swiss cheese.
And this nonsense here is the other thing I've been saying. I show you scripture, and you argue with your theology. I give you facts, and you counter with your misguided reasoning.

The disciples on the road to Emmaus have no bearing on this conversation. I do not deny that Jesus died on a Friday, or that he rose on a Sunday. He was in the grave during the three days of Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. The scriptures attest to a Friday crucifixion (Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, Matthew 27:62), and a Sunday resurrection (Mark 16:9), and corroborate the span of three days (Luke 24:13-21). Three days and nights, whether full or partial, are being expressed synecdochically, and I don't rightly care if the reality of this fits within your theological bubble.

So stop responding to me if you can't accept the scriptures. My conclusions aren't going to change, because what I'm saying is verbatim from the scriptures themselves. Why you can't see that is beyond me.
 
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AFrazier

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Look, you can keep repeating your theory but it does NOT match scripture nor historical accounts. Josephus even disagrees with as I have shown, yet all you do is ignore everything presented to you. I guess you wasted 20 years. If Yeshua dies on the 15th as you say, and Yom HaBikkurim was on the 16th, He would have been in the tomb only over 1 night if that! Do you really expect anyone to buy into that? We know for a fact you are wrong because we have testimony on the correct chronology of the events from the eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus! You have no leg to stand on...you have sooooo many holes in your theory it looks like swiss cheese.
Okay, two questions:

1) In what way are you suggested Josephus disagrees with me? What have you shown me that I am not recalling?

2) Apart from your general theological disagreement, what issue do you have with Jesus being crucified on the 15th? Given your comment about the disciples on the road to Emmaus, I'm getting the impression that you think I believe Jesus was crucified on Saturday.
If you are of the opinion that the 14th fell on Friday in the year in question, then maybe I understand where some of your resistance is coming from. That would mean that you think Friday was the 14th, and because I'm insisting that he died on the 15th, that necessarily means I'm pushing his death forward to Saturday.
Is that what you think I'm doing?

If it is, let me clarify by saying that Jesus was crucified on Friday the 15th, 34 CE, which was April 23rd. A Sabbatical year began in Tishri of 33 CE. As was the practice of the day, intercalary months were not added during a Sabbatical year, so to keep the seasons in line, they often added the intercalary month in the year preceding the Sabbatical year. So instead of Nisan 1 in 33 CE being March 20th, and the passover being Friday, April 3rd, Adar Sheni was added in anticipation of an early (March 10th) Nisan 1 in 34 CE, which would have been too early, and it would not have been correctable in 34 CE. They therefore pushed Nisan 1 in 33 CE to April 19th, and the passover to Sunday, May 3rd. The shift causes Nisan 1 in 34 CE to fall on April 8th, with the passover on Thursday, April 22nd, and the crucifixion on Friday, April 23rd, which is the 15th of Nisan.

This shift, consequently, also nullifies 33 CE as a viable year, leaving only 34 CE, and the 15th of Nisan, as a usable candidate for the correct year and date of the crucifixion.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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It is not a theory. That's what you don't seem to grasp. What I have shared IS the scripture, and IS the historical account. But since it doesn't seem to be sinking in for you, let me instead give you a version of what I've been saying made from direct scripture, with no paraphrasing on my part.

And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover (Mark 14:12; cf. Luke 22:7), his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover? (Mark 14:12; cf. Matthew 26:17, Luke 22:7-9) And he sendeth forth two of his disciples (Mark 14:13), Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat (Luke 22:8). Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house (Luke 22:11 cf. Mark 14:14), The Master saith unto thee (Matthew 26:18, Mark 14:14, Luke 22:11), My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples (Matthew 26:18). Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples (Luke 22:10-11; cf. Mark 14:14)? And he will show you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us (Mark 14:15; cf. Luke 22:12). And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover (Mark 14:16; cf. Luke 22:13, Matthew 26:19). And in the evening (Mark 14:17), when the hour was come (Luke 22:14), he cometh with the twelve (Mark 14:17), and sat down with the [...] apostles (Luke 22:14, Matthew 26:20). And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer (Luke 22:14). And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me (Matthew 26:21; Mark 14:18, Luke 22:21).

Concerning "And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover (Mark 14:12; cf. Luke 22:7)":

Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house [...] And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even. (Exodus 12:3, 6, 18).

Concerning the time of day:

Mishnah: The [afternoon] Tamid is slaughtered at eight and a half hours and is offered at nine and a half hours. On the eve of passover it is slaughtered at seven and a half hours and offered at eight and a half hours, whether it is a weekday or the sabbath. If the eve of passover fell, on sabbath eve [Friday], it is slaughtered at six and a half hours and offered at seven and a half hours, and the passover offering after it (Tal. Pesachim 58a; cf. Yoma 28b).

So these high priests, upon the coming of that feast which is called the Passover, when they slay their sacrifices, from the ninth hour till the eleventh, but so that a company not less than ten belong to every sacrifice, (for it is not lawful for them to feast singly by themselves), and many of us are twenty in a company [...] (Joseph BJ 6.423).


And this nonsense here is the other thing I've been saying. I show you scripture, and you argue with your theology. I give you facts, and you counter with your misguided reasoning.

The disciples on the road to Emmaus have no bearing on this conversation. I do not deny that Jesus died on a Friday, or that he rose on a Sunday. He was in the grave during the three days of Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. The scriptures attest to a Friday crucifixion (Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, Matthew 27:62), and a Sunday resurrection (Mark 16:9), and corroborate the span of three days (Luke 24:13-21). Three days and nights, whether full or partial, are being expressed synecdochically, and I don't rightly care if the reality of this fits within your theological bubble.

So stop responding to me if you can't accept the scriptures. My conclusions aren't going to change, because what I'm saying is verbatim from the scriptures themselves. Why you can't see that is beyond me.

You must be blind! Friday was the 14th, Saturday the 15th and Sunday the 16th. That is the true chronology. Your problem is you do not understand WHY your theory is impossible. IF Yeshua died on Friday the 15th, then He would have to raise on the 16th...Yom HaBikkurim. NONE of your theory fulfills prophecy or Scripture. Do you understand now that your theory is impossible? Probably not...you will keep repeating the same wrong interpretations.

"But on the second day of unleavened bread, which is the sixteenth day of the month, they first partake of the fruits of the earth, for before that day they do not touch them” (Antiquities of the Jews 3.10.15)

"But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep"
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Okay, two questions:

1) In what way are you suggested Josephus disagrees with me? What have you shown me that I am not recalling?

2) Apart from your general theological disagreement, what issue do you have with Jesus being crucified on the 15th? Given your comment about the disciples on the road to Emmaus, I'm getting the impression that you think I believe Jesus was crucified on Saturday.
If you are of the opinion that the 14th fell on Friday in the year in question, then maybe I understand where some of your resistance is coming from. That would mean that you think Friday was the 14th, and because I'm insisting that he died on the 15th, that necessarily means I'm pushing his death forward to Saturday.
Is that what you think I'm doing?

I have already explained it to you and gave you the citation. The 16th is Yom HaBikkurim. You have Him being killed on the 15th! Impossible! He died on the 14th. You will NEVER change my mind...because you can't...1 + 1 = 2 period.
 
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AFrazier

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You must be blind! Friday was the 14th, Saturday the 15th and Sunday the 16th. That is the true chronology. Your problem is you do not understand WHY your theory is impossible. IF Yeshua died on Friday the 15th, then He would have to raise on the 16th...Yom HaBikkurim. NONE of your theory fulfills prophecy or Scripture. Do you understand now that your theory is impossible? Probably not...you will keep repeating the same wrong interpretations.

"But on the second day of unleavened bread, which is the sixteenth day of the month, they first partake of the fruits of the earth, for before that day they do not touch them” (Antiquities of the Jews 3.10.15)

"But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep"
Since I only quoted direct scripture, which scripture did you misunderstand? lol

As I have said repeatedly, you're trying to base chronology on theology, but your theology is inconsistent with the actual chain of events.

Here are the scriptures again:

And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover (Mark 14:12; cf. Luke 22:7), his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover? (Mark 14:12; cf. Matthew 26:17, Luke 22:7-9) And he sendeth forth two of his disciples (Mark 14:13), Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat (Luke 22:8). Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house (Luke 22:11 cf. Mark 14:14), The Master saith unto thee (Matthew 26:18, Mark 14:14, Luke 22:11), My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples (Matthew 26:18). Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples (Luke 22:10-11; cf. Mark 14:14)? And he will show you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us (Mark 14:15; cf. Luke 22:12). And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover (Mark 14:16; cf. Luke 22:13, Matthew 26:19). And in the evening (Mark 14:17), when the hour was come (Luke 22:14), he cometh with the twelve (Mark 14:17), and sat down with the [...] apostles (Luke 22:14, Matthew 26:20). And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer (Luke 22:14). And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me (Matthew 26:21; Mark 14:18, Luke 22:21).
 
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