Do you agree that Christians should obey all 613 commandments?

[listed]

how inexplicably blind and deaf are we...Father forgive us...

"Stricken, Smitten, and Afflicted" by Fernando Ortega - YouTube

Stricken, Smitten, and Afflicted​

Stricken, smitten, and afflicted,
See Him dying on the tree!
'Tis the Christ by man rejected;
Yes, my soul, 'tis He, 'tis He!
'Tis the long-expected prophet,
David's Son, yet David's Lord;
By His Son, God now has spoken
Tis the true and faithful Word.​

Tell me, ye who hear him groaning,
Was there ever grief like his?
Friends thro' fear his cause disowning,
Foes insulting his distress;
Many hands were raised to wound him,
None would interpose to save;
But the deepest stroke that pierced him
Was the stroke that Justice gave.​

Ye who think of sin but lightly,
Nor suppose the evil great
Here may view its nature rightly,
Here its guilt may estimate.
Mark the sacrifice appointed,
See who bears the awful load;
'tis the Word, the Lord's Anointed,
Son of Man and Son of God.​

Here we have a firm foundation,
Here the refuge of the lost;
Christ's the Rock of our salvation,
His the name of which we boast.
Lamb of God, for sinners wounded,
Sacrifice to cancel guilt!
None shall ever be confounded

Who on him their hope have built.​

Very nice song loaded with more truth than losts of new Christian music.

 

[listed]

I agree with most of what you have written here.
I do have one question. Honest question

Why did Paul offer up purification sacrifices/offerings in the Temple after his Nazarite Vow in Acts 21?
He was obviously following the commandments in Numbers 6 regarding the vow.
Could it be that the offerings that are "non-related" to sin, such as the purification offerings, guilt offerings, food, drink and peace offerings were not replaced...until they were unable to be performed due to no Temple?

It was an effort to do nothing more than appease and quiet the Jewish believers. The non believers rose up because of the hatred of Paul causing the civil disturbance.

 

[dollarsbill]

We are under the Law of the Jews (of the OT) or we are not. Paul teaches "not"; Jesus teaches "not"

Paul certainly was not under the Law.

1 Corinthians 9:19-20 (NASB)
19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;

And he said that we are not either.

Galatians 5:18 (NASB)
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

 

[listed]

Paul certainly was not under the Law.

1 Corinthians 9:19-20 (NASB)
19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;

And he said that we are not either.

Galatians 5:18 (NASB)
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

 

[tzadik]

It was an effort to do nothing more than appease and quiet the Jewish believers. The non believers rose up because of the hatred of Paul causing the civil disturbance.

In other words, Paul was a fraud and hypocrite, and a man-pleaser.

Hmm...
Galatians 1:10 much?

 

[tzadik]

Paul certainly was not under the Law.

1 Corinthians 9:19-20 (NASB)
19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;

And he said that we are not either.

Galatians 5:18 (NASB)
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

No true believer is under the law.

Being "under the law" does NOT mean obeying, following and keeping God's Commandments as a believer.

 

[dollarsbill]

No true believer is under the law.

Being "under the law" does NOT mean obeying, following and keeping God's Commandments as a believer.

Then why are you preaching the Law to us?

 

[listed]

In other words, Paul was a fraud and hypocrite, and a man-pleaser.

Hmm...
Galatians 1:10 much?

Must be an attempt at humor.

 

[listed]

No true believer is under the law.

Being "under the law" does NOT mean obeying, following and keeping God's Commandments as a believer.

You sure back peddle awful hard. You should look up under in the dictionary.

Thinking about your first sentence you must be saying none of us are believers because you sure try and place us under the law. That or you waffle so hard no one including you knows what you are trying to convey.

 

[listed]

Then why are you preaching the Law to us?

Sure puzzles me too.

 

[tzadik]

You sure back peddle awful hard. You should look up under in the dictionary.

Thinking about your first sentence you must be saying none of us are believers because you sure try and place us under the law. That or you waffle so hard no one including you knows what you are trying to convey.

It might blow your mind, but ALL believers in the Scriptures were not "Under the Law", yet obeyed the Law of God, living a life according to the Will of God.

Until you know what "under the law" means, you will forever be reeling...
toiling...and fighting against the Law of God.

 

[tzadik]

Must be an attempt at humor.

You can laugh all you want.
Paul was not a hypocrite.
Paul was not a man-pleaser.
Paul was not a chameleon.

To suggest that Paul was eating kosher around Jews and eating pork chops around the Gentiles...is calling Paul a fraud.
He would not be straightforward regarding the Truth of God, and according to his own admission could not be a bondservant of Messiah. (Galatians 1:10)

 

[brinny]

It might blow your mind, but ALL believers in the Scriptures were not "Under the Law", yet obeyed the Law of God, living a life according to the Will of God.

Until you know what "under the law" means, you will forever be reeling...
toiling...and fighting against the Law of God.

a child of God, covered by the blood of Christ, is righteous because of it, and has peace.

 

[tzadik]

a child of God, covered by the blood of Christ, is righteous because of it, and has peace.

Psalm 106:3
"How blessed are those who keep justice, Who practice righteousness at all times!"

1 John 2:29
"If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him."

1 John 3:7, 10
"Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."

What do you think "practicing righteousness" refers to?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by tzadik It might blow your mind, but ALL believers in the Scriptures were not "Under the Law", yet obeyed the Law of God, living a life according to the Will of God.

Until you know what "under the law" means, you will forever be reeling...
toiling...and fighting against the Law of God.

Why not make a thread on it?

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
"under" AND "law"
occurs in 16 verses in the KJV

Last time used:

KJV) Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

John 5:45 "No be ye supposing that I shall be accusing of ye toward the Father,
is the one accusing of ye, Moses into whom ye have hoped"
[Luke 16:31/Reve 12:10]

Luke 16:31 Saying yet to him "if Moses and the Prophets not they are hearing, neither if ever anyone out of dead-ones may be rising, they shall be being persuaded".

.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
a child of God, covered by the blood of Christ, is righteous because of it, and has peace.

Psalm 106:3
"How blessed are those who keep justice, Who practice righteousness at all times!"

1 John 2:29
"If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him."

1 John 3:7, 10
"Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."

What do you think "practicing righteousness" refers to?

it refers to Jesus' righteousness within us, for He is within us. His righteousness is ours. there is now no condemnation. For to condemn a child of God, one must go through Jesus first. therefore it is impossible to condemn a child of the Most High who is covered and indwelled by Jesus. That's why a child of God has peace, for now there is no condemnation, for he is in Christ.

 

[tzadik]

it refers to Jesus' righteousness within us, for He is within us. His righteousness is ours. there is now no condemnation. For to condemn a child of God, one must go through Jesus first. therefore it is impossible to condemn a child of the Most High who is covered and indwelled by Jesus. That's why a child of God has peace, for now there is no condemnation, for he is in Christ.

So you believe that once you are saved by faith...
you don't have to do any works?
or have to obey God's will? (I know you'll obviously say yes to this one)
I'm just trying to understand what you mean with....
once saved...we don't have to do anything..

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
it refers to Jesus' righteousness within us, for He is within us. His righteousness is ours. there is now no condemnation. For to condemn a child of God, one must go through Jesus first. therefore it is impossible to condemn a child of the Most High who is covered and indwelled by Jesus. That's why a child of God has peace, for now there is no condemnation, for he is in Christ.

So you believe that once you are saved by faith...
you don't have to do any works?
or have to obey God's will? (I know you'll obviously say yes to this one)
I'm just trying to understand what you mean with....
once saved...we don't have to do anything..

you mean "labors of love"? a child of God is compelled to respond in love and compassion to the suffering, the needy, the bereft, the rejected, kicked aside, and dejected and hopeless. We grieve at these conditions and our heart is heavy and thus compelled to respond. it is not anything that i consider "works" or keep track of. It just is. it is done without a second thought.

Is that what you mean?

 

[tzadik]

you mean "labors of love"? a child of God is compelled to respond in love and compassion to the suffering, the needy, the bereft, the rejected, kicked aside, and dejected and hopeless. We grieve at these conditions and our heart is heavy and thus compelled to respond. it is not anything that i consider "works" or keep track of. It just is. it is done without a second thought.

Is that what you mean?

Absolutely. But it's not just limited to "labors of love". His Spirit living within us, guides us according to the Truth of His Word. So of course love will definitely lead us into loving and caring for others.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 tells us that Genesis through Revelation trains us in righteousness, preparing and equipping us to do good works for God.

 

[listed]

It might blow your mind, but ALL believers in the Scriptures were not "Under the Law", yet obeyed the Law of God, living a life according to the Will of God.

Until you know what "under the law" means, you will forever be reeling...
toiling...and fighting against the Law of God.

First class effort at deception if you ask me. Doesn't matter if you're asking or not.

When you say under the Law as above it is clearly what is called the law/Torah/Pentateuch/law of Moses/Book of the Law in any religious/theological circle. This isn't the law of inclusive law of God as indicated in Jeremiah. You're not accusing me of following that law but the what is found in the Book of the Law which contain the law issued at Mt Sinai. Any reader paying attention will see that you're using terms interchangably really saying 2 different things to trap the fool and ignorant or unknowledgable Christian about their relationship with God.

Essentialy you imply I'm an unrepentant ungodly sinner promoting sin. This isn't derived from a single post BTW. This is forbidden here at CF. You have no valid argument to support your position or you wouldn't resort to this political type mud slinging. I do appreaciate your response though. It greatly aides my arguemnet.

Yes I understand the war that is being waged. I believe and am firmly rooted in the truth and my relationship with God. You will never decieve me. I will chat with you here till you leave though. I didn't extend and invitation to do that either.