Do you agree that Christians should obey all 613 commandments?

[listed]

You can laugh all you want.
Paul was not a hypocrite.
Paul was not a man-pleaser.
Paul was not a chameleon.

To suggest that Paul was eating kosher around Jews and eating pork chops around the Gentiles...is calling Paul a fraud.
He would not be straightforward regarding the Truth of God, and according to his own admission could not be a bondservant of Messiah. (Galatians 1:10)

What does a Christian living like a Gentile mean?

 

[listed]

a child of God, covered by the blood of Christ, is righteous because of it, and has peace.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What does a Christian living like a Gentile mean?

Good question!

http://www.christianforums.com/t7642565-5/#post60077087
Are Gentiles Second Class?

.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
you mean "labors of love"? a child of God is compelled to respond in love and compassion to the suffering, the needy, the bereft, the rejected, kicked aside, and dejected and hopeless. We grieve at these conditions and our heart is heavy and thus compelled to respond. it is not anything that i consider "works" or keep track of. It just is. it is done without a second thought.

Is that what you mean?

Absolutely. But it's not just limited to "labors of love". His Spirit living within us, guides us according to the Truth of His Word. So of course love will definitely lead us into loving and caring for others.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 tells us that Genesis through Revelation trains us in righteousness, preparing and equipping us to do good works for God.

God Himself is moving through us, our hearts in all of this. It means that we are his vessel and He loves others through us. This is the transformation that he does within us. HE does a work within us, and his grace is poured out onto others. it is HE that loves others, not us, but his love within us compels us to love others by his power to complete what he started in us. We become as the father was in the prodigal son, and his grace supersedes our own characteristics. We become children of light, as He is the Father of lights, and His love is seen within us. His peace is ours. it is no longer a striving, but a "rest" in Him as we "labor in love".

 

[listed]

Psalm 106:3
"How blessed are those who keep justice, Who practice righteousness at all times!"

1 John 2:29
"If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him."

1 John 3:7, 10
"Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."

What do you think "practicing righteousness" refers to?

You accuse me of fighting against the law of God and you fight against the Blood of the Lamb that provides salvation and righteousness the law couldn't do. Why? What more proof do I need that you're trying to steal my soul from the clutches of God?

 

[listed]

it refers to Jesus' righteousness within us, for He is within us. His righteousness is ours. there is now no condemnation. For to condemn a child of God, one must go through Jesus first. therefore it is impossible to condemn a child of the Most High who is covered and indwelled by Jesus. That's why a child of God has peace, for now there is no condemnation, for he is in Christ.

Very fine post.

 

[tzadik]

First class effort at deception if you ask me. Doesn't matter if you're asking or not.

When you say under the Law as above it is clearly what is called the law/Torah/Pentateuch/law of Moses/Book of the Law in any religious/theological circle.

So I have to believe that “under the law” = “under the law of Moses” simply because you and all religious and theological circles agree on that?

Let’s talk about that for a second.
So when you see under the Law do you (and your theological circle) refer to Genesis through Deuteronomy?

And if so, does this mean to you that “that person” (A) is obeying everything from “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” and “to and for all the mighty power and for all the great terror which Moses performed in the sight of all Israel” ?
Or are they (B)living a life of obedience to ONLY the laws, rules and commandments stipulated from Genesis 1 through Deuteronomy 34? Or perhaps is it only referring to (C) the ten commandments (as your buddies Frogster and Scratch believe)?

So once that is answered, you would say anyone keeping either (A), (B) or (C) is not under grace, and in actually not saved?

 

[listed]

So you believe that once you are saved by faith...
you don't have to do any works?
or have to obey God's will? (I know you'll obviously say yes to this one)
I'm just trying to understand what you mean with....
once saved...we don't have to do anything..

Are you not calling works to be works of the law? What does the Scripture say about this? 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[listed]

Absolutely. But it's not just limited to "labors of love". His Spirit living within us, guides us according to the Truth of His Word. So of course love will definitely lead us into loving and caring for others.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 tells us that Genesis through Revelation trains us in righteousness, preparing and equipping us to do good works for God.

You will say anything hoping to trap anyone.

 

[tzadik]

You accuse me of fighting against the law of God and you fight against the Blood of the Lamb that provides salvation and righteousness the law couldn't do. Why? What more proof do I need that you're trying to steal my soul from the clutches of God?

Um...

Are you threatened by the verses I posted regarding practicing righteousness?

They are not the only verses that explicitly tell us that "faith" and "belief" MUST be followed by works, practice, fruits and a life of obedience.

 

[tzadik]

Are you not calling works to be works of the law? What does the Scripture say about this? 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

works of the law AGAIN...=trying to earn salvation by keeping the commandments.

So no.

 

[brinny]

Um...

Are you threatened by the verses I posted regarding practicing righteousness?

They are not the only verses that explicitly tell us that "faith" and "belief" MUST be followed by works, practice, fruits and a life of obedience.

fruits as in fruits of the spirit?

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." ~Galatians 5:22-23

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You accuse me of fighting against the law of God and you fight against the Blood of the Lamb that provides salvation and righteousness the law couldn't do. Why? What more proof do I need that you're trying to steal my soul from the clutches of God?

Soul Hunter?

Rotherham) Ezekiel 13:18 "and say 'Thus saith My Lord Yahweh, Alas! for those who sew oracle, cases on all elbows and prepare wraps upon the head of every stature to hunt souls,-- the souls ye hunt are those of My people, whereas your own souls ye keep alive.
19 Thus have ye profaned Me unto My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, putting to death the souls that should not die, and keeping alive the souls that should not live,-- By your lying to My people I who hearken to lies

Soul Man Trailer - YouTube

Here is an interesting post on the 613 commandments:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7641369-6/#post60077386

Originally Posted by anisavta I've always known we can't observe all 613 mitzvot. Common sense tells me that. But it is interesting to read each of the 613 and prayerfully see which ones do apply.
And if we'd stop a moment to let the dust settle on this subject we'd see that many are, as Yeshua said, summed up in loving HaShem and each other. If we do that we'll find we are observing more of the mitzvot than we realize.

 

[listed]

So I have to believe that “under the law” = “under the law of Moses” simply because you and all religious and theological circles agree on that?

Let’s talk about that for a second.
So when you see under the Law do you (and your theological circle) refer to Genesis through Deuteronomy?

And if so, does this mean to you that “that person” (A) is obeying everything from “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” and “to and for all the mighty power and for all the great terror which Moses performed in the sight of all Israel” ?
Or are they (B)living a life of obedience to ONLY the laws, rules and commandments stipulated from Genesis 1 through Deuteronomy 34? Or perhaps is it only referring to (C) the ten commandments (as your buddies Frogster and Scratch believe)?

So once that is answered, you would say anyone keeping either (A), (B) or (C) is not under grace, and in actually not saved?

This is the way it is presented in the Scripture and not just religious/theological circles. Sorry.

Why don't you offer the choice of accepting the NC Blood of the Lamb?

What does the Scripture say? 4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Gal 5

Isn't it you that has made a big deal out of Mat 4:4? So why do you refuse the above verse I quoted? Is it because it successfully refutes your theology?

 

[tzadik]

What does a Christian living like a Gentile mean?

Well seeing he described "Gentile" in Galatians 2:15, I would hope the "Christians" were not living like Gentiles.

 

[listed]

Um...

Are you threatened by the verses I posted regarding practicing righteousness?

They are not the only verses that explicitly tell us that "faith" and "belief" MUST be followed by works, practice, fruits and a life of obedience.

Threatened? My that is good humor.

 

[tzadik]

This is the way it is presented in the Scripture and not just religious/theological circles. Sorry.

Why don't you offer the choice of accepting the NC Blood of the Lamb?

What does the Scripture say? 4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Gal 5

Isn't it you that has made a big deal out of Mat 4:4? So why do you refuse the above verse I quoted? Is it because it successfully refutes your theology?

lol.

Justified. Justified. Justified. Justified. Justified. Justified. Justified. Justified.

So under the law to you means...
A. Obeying everything written in Genesis through Deuteronomy
B. Obeying the 10 commandments
C. Obeying all the laws, commandments and ordinances in Genesis through Deuteronomy.
D. Obeying all the laws, commandments and ordinances given at Mt. Sinai

Which one?

 

[listed]

works of the law AGAIN...=trying to earn salvation by keeping the commandments.

So no.

Didn't you present Scripture showing that anyone who practices righteousness is righteous? Is this not salvation aquired and or maintained by the law which can't provide or maintain salvation?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by tzadik Um...

Are you threatened by the verses I posted regarding practicing righteousness?

They are not the only verses that explicitly tell us that "faith" and "belief" MUST be followed by works, practice, fruits and a life of obedience.

Threatened? My that is good humor.

we need humor here sometimes

 

[tzadik]

fruits as in fruits of the spirit?

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." ~Galatians 5:22-23

As in Matthew 7:17-27

17. "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18. "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19. "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20. "So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21. "Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22. "Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23. "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; Depart from Me, You who practice lawlessness.'
24. "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25. "And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
26. "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27. "The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell--and great was its fall."