Do you agree that Christians should obey all 613 commandments?

[listed]

fruits as in fruits of the spirit?

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." ~Galatians 5:22-23

The bright green is both to show that the behaviour of the Christian isn't against the law as Paul says and also about the new spring growth both in nature and that of a born again soul called a Christian. Ah spring (hope) it springs eternal. If spring doesn't happen we're dead.

 

[Forge3]

What about the parable of the sheep and goats. The ones that got into heaven were those that simply showed loving kindness.

 

[listed]

Soul Hunter?

Rotherham) Ezekiel 13:18 "and say 'Thus saith My Lord Yahweh, Alas! for those who sew oracle, cases on all elbows and prepare wraps upon the head of every stature to hunt souls,-- the souls ye hunt are those of My people, whereas your own souls ye keep alive.
19 Thus have ye profaned Me unto My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, putting to death the souls that should not die, and keeping alive the souls that should not live,-- By your lying to My people I who hearken to lies

Soul Man Trailer - YouTube

Here is an interesting post on the 613 commandments:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7641369-6/#post60077386

Excellent except for the theology of the MJ quote. Soul hunter is exactly correct. That is what is taking place here. May they forever come up empty.

 

[tzadik]

Didn't you present Scripture showing that anyone who practices righteousness is righteous? Is this not salvation aquired and or maintained by the law which can't provide or maintain salvation?

What do you see when you read...
"Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."

Do you see that as "simply believing" and "God'll take care of the rest"...or now that you are saved, walk in God's ways, DOING the will of the Father?

Me and you can banter all day about whether or not we think Ezekiel 18 is applicable to us today, or if it really is "once saved, always saved", but at the end of the day Messiah makes it clear that we are to DO the will of the Father.

 

[listed]

Well seeing he described "Gentile" in Galatians 2:15, I would hope the "Christians" were not living like Gentiles.

Now that is applying living like a Gentile to be only paganism. Living like Gentiles is to say not living in accord with the covenant made with the COI. It has nothing to do with paganism in such a context. Read Acts 15. Thery weren't required to submit to the Law of Moses in part or whole which includes the ten commandments.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

As in Matthew 7:17-27

26. "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27. "The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell--and great was its fall."

Good verses!

Matt 7:26 And all the one hearing of Me the words, these, and no doing them shall be likened to a man, stupid/foolish, who-any builds of him the House upon the sand.
27 And descended the rains and the streams, and blow the winds, and they toward-strike that House and she falls
and was the fall of her great.
[Revelation 14:8]

Reve 14:8 And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great, the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations".
[Jeremiah 51:8/Matt 7:27/Luke 19:44]

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Excellent except for the theology of the MJ quote. Soul hunter is exactly correct. That is what is taking place here. May they forever come up empty.

They haven't nabbed mine yet

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

Matthew 23:15 Woe to ye Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
that ye are going about the Sea and the Dry to make one proselyte
and whenever he may be becoming, ye are making him a son of geennhV twofold-more of ye-selves

 

[listed]

Well seeing he described "Gentile" in Galatians 2:15, I would hope the "Christians" were not living like Gentiles.

Funny! This is exactly what the subverts of Acts 15 were trying to do - convert people to Judaism so they could possess salvation. I think you don't have the ability to understand. Could this be the cause -

12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. II Cor 3

 

[listed]

lol.

Justified. Justified. Justified. Justified. Justified. Justified. Justified. Justified.

So under the law to you means...
A. Obeying everything written in Genesis through Deuteronomy
B. Obeying the 10 commandments
C. Obeying all the laws, commandments and ordinances in Genesis through Deuteronomy.
D. Obeying all the laws, commandments and ordinances given at Mt. Sinai

Which one?

You forgot option E. None of the above.

 

[tzadik]

You forgot option E. None of the above.

lol.
That's the option I believe in. Didn't know we agreed.

Ok so tell me if it is none of the above, what does it mean to be "under the Law"?

Obedience to what?

 

[listed]

What do you see when you read...
"Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."

Do you see that as "simply believing" and "God'll take care of the rest"...or now that you are saved, walk in God's ways, DOING the will of the Father?

Me and you can banter all day about whether or not we think Ezekiel 18 is applicable to us today, or if it really is "once saved, always saved", but at the end of the day Messiah makes it clear that we are to DO the will of the Father.

Exactly and those who don't comply with I John 3:23 will enjoy extreme warmth.

 

[tzadik]

Now that is applying living like a Gentile to be only paganism. Living like Gentiles is to say not living in accord with the covenant made with the COI. It has nothing to do with paganism in such a context. Read Acts 15. Thery weren't required to submit to the Law of Moses in part or whole which includes the ten commandments.

So you are going to take it upon yourself to define what sin Paul is referring to? Nice.

The 4 requirements given to the Gentile believers were for them to abandon all connections to their idolatrous past. Adherence to the four stipulations would guarantee that.

They didn't need to talk about any further commandments why? Because they were already hearing God's Torah taught in the synagogues every Sabbath (verse 21)

 

[tzadik]

Exactly and those who don't comply with I John 3:23 will enjoy extreme warmth.

What's interesting is that both verses 22 and 24 both say commandments/plural whereas verse 23 says command/singular.
This is mirrored in the original language as well.

22. and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
23. This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
24. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

So you see buddy, even 1 John 3, just like 1 John 2 tells us to keep God's commandments! (plural)

 

[listed]

So you are going to take it upon yourself to define what sin Paul is referring to? Nice.

The 4 requirements given to the Gentile believers were for them to abandon all connections to their idolatrous past. Adherence to the four stipulations would guarantee that.

They didn't need to talk about any further commandments why? Because they were already hearing God's Torah taught in the synagogues every Sabbath (verse 21)

Abandoning their idolatrous past has nothing to do with being required to conform to the law as Acts 15 proves. This includes a kosher kitchen and the sabbath.

 

[listed]

What's interesting is that both verses 22 and 24 both say commandments/plural whereas verse 23 says command/singular.
This is mirrored in the original language as well.

22. and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
23. This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
24. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

So you see buddy, even 1 John 3, just like 1 John 2 tells us to keep God's commandments! (plural)

I used to have problems with the pronouns, too. There is a reason for the change from plural to singular. But you either really don't understand or refuse to understand. Didn't you see a post by me talking about the vail over the eyes? It is II Cor 3:13-17.

 

[tzadik]

Abandoning their idolatrous past has nothing to do with being required to conform to the law as Acts 15 proves. This includes a kosher kitchen and the sabbath.

It also includes adultery, stealing, murder, homosexuality, sorcery, witchcraft, hating your neighbor, dishonoring your parents, etc.

Your argument is mute.
The reason they gave them these stipulations was so that they would be able to congregate with believers and continue learning about God's ways.
Before they could congregate with the saints, they needed to abandon their idolatrous past. This is why the stipulations were given.

Notice how the "for" connects verse 21 to the rest of the ruling...
because after all they'll hear about walking in God's ways every Sabbath in the synagogues.

 

[tzadik]

I used to have problems with the pronouns, too. There is a reason for the change from plural to singular. But you either really don't understand or refuse to understand. Didn't you see a post by me talking about the vail over the eyes? It is II Cor 3:13-17.

lol pronouns? pronouns have nothing to do with this.
The burden is on you to prove that All of God's commandments have suddenly been conglomerated in just one simple "command" to believe and love your neighbor.

That doesn't even agree with what Messiah said in Matthew 22:40.
How in the world can you teach a new-born believer..."ALL you have to do is believe and love your neighbor." Nothing else.

Doing the will of God...no matter how much you don't like it..is not LIMITED to "believing in the name of Messiah and loving your neighbor."

 

[dollarsbill]

works of the law AGAIN...=trying to earn salvation by keeping the commandments.

So no.

Are you seriously denying that you have been trying to put Christians 'under the Law of Moses'?

 

[tzadik]

Are you seriously denying that you have been trying to put Christians 'under the Law of Moses'?

Absolutely!
under the law does NOT = keeping of God's commandments. I might've said that about a vagillion times already.

If you were to ask me Do you encourage Christians to obey God's Instructions? I would answer ABSOLUTELY!

 

[dollarsbill]

Absolutely!
under the law does NOT = keeping of God's commandments. I might've said that about a vagillion times already.

If you were to ask me Do you encourage Christians to obey God's Instructions? I would answer ABSOLUTELY!

Very interesting. If we don't have to keep the Law of Moses then AGAIN, why are you trying to force it on Christians who live buy the New Covenant in Jesus' Blood? You deny trying to put us 'under the Law' but that's exactly what you are trying to do.