Do you agree that Christians should obey all 613 commandments?

[brinny]

Glad - Be Ye Glad - YouTube

BE YE GLAD

Words and Music by M.K.Blanchard
© Gotz Music/Benson
(860) 673-5100

In these days of confused situations.
In these nights of a restless remorse,
When the heart and the soul of the nation,
lay wounded and cold as a corpse.
From the grave of the innocent Adam,
comes a song bringing joy to the sad.
Oh your cry has been heard and the ransom,
has been paid up in full, Be Ye Glad.

(Chorus)

Oh, Be Ye Glad, Be Ye Glad,
Every debt that you ever had
Has been paid up in full by the grace of the Lord,
Be Ye Glad, Be Ye Glad, Be Ye Glad.

From the dungeon a rumor is stirring.
You have heard it again and again.
But this time the cell keys are turning,
and outside there are faces of friends.
And though your body lay weary from wasting,
and your eyes show the sorrow they've had.
Oh the love that your heart is now tasting
has opened the gate, Be Ye Glad.

(Chorus)

So be like lights on the rim of the water,
giving hope in a storm sea of night.
Be a refuge amidst the slaughter,
for these fugitives in their flight.
For you are timeless and part of a puzzle.
You are winsome and young as a lad.
And there is no disease or no struggle,
that can pull you from God, Be Ye Glad.

(Chorus)​

 

[brinny]

sing to JESUS - YouTube

Sing To Jesus

Come and see
Look on this mystery
Lord of the universe
Nailed to a tree

Christ our God
Spilling His holy blood
Bowing in anguish
His sacred head

Sing to Jesus
Lord of our shame
Lord of our sinful hearts
He is our great Redeemer
Sing to Jesus
Honor His name
Sing of His faithfulness
Pouring His life out unto death

Come, you weary
And He will give you rest
Come you who mourn
Lay on His breast

He who died
Risen in paradise
Giver of mercy
Giver of life

Sing to Jesus
His is the throne
Now and forever
He is the king of heaven
Sing to Jesus
We are His own
Now and forever
Sing for the love our God has shown

Sing to Jesus
Lord of our shame
Lord of our sinful hearts
He is our great Redeemer
Sing to Jesus
Honor His name
Sing to Jesus
His is the throne
Now and forever
He is the king of heaven
Sing to Jesus
We are His own
Now and forever
Sing for the love our God has shown​

 

[sk8Joyful]

....from the arms of death, from the deepest grave...

I Will Praise Him Still

And JESUS gave us LIFE in His GOOD WILL...

When dark trials come, & from the abuse, my heart is stilled,
Yet
by His GOOD GRACE I will SING... His Name, & I PRAISE JESUS still

 

[listed]

Yes, you are correct, it has always been a choice of who do you love, who do you put first really. That is why the greatest commandment is the Shema.

The LoRD is ONE. There is only one, all else falls short.

But you said that:


But we must show G-d that love the same way that Jesus did, in obedience. He taught us how to walk uprightly before the Father, do as he did. What did he say?

21 times the phrase 'Follow me' is found in the NT (depending on which version). Each time, Jesus is speaking about the way to walk before G-d. To emulate him.

The word translated as 'Follow' in Greek is ajkolouqevw a combination of words that mean

union and road.

to join on the road.

The Road is the way, Jesus said he was the Way, not himself, but what he did, that is the way to G-d. No one comes to the Father but through 'the way' the road. He saying 'Follow me' is telling us to join him on the right path, the right road, be in union with him, walking the same way before G-d.

Jesus said you ain't getting except you go through Him. And if you try anything else you're a theif and a robber and won't be getting in. IOW it isn't the law or adherence to the law.

 

[listed]

What? 613? Geesh. Most Christians have trouble with ten, nevermind 613.
No, it's impossible. Try, yes. But, we are saved by grace, not by keeping commandments, thank God.

Forget the 10. I don't know to many that can keep 2.

 

[bugkiller]

Forget the 10. I don't know to many that can keep 2.

Forget the 2. Who is keeping the 1?

bugkiller

 

[listed]

Forget the 2. Who is keeping the 1?

bugkiller

OK I can't beat that, you rascal.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by listed Forget the 10. I don't know to many that can keep 2.

Originally Posted by bugkiller Forget the 2. Who is keeping the 1?

bugkiller

OK I can't beat that, you rascal.

Not these guys

Redneck Ten Commandments - YouTube

 

[brinny]

"Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;" ~II Corinthians 1:3

Lord of the poorest heart....our Comforter, our Redeemer, our Friend;

Fernando Ortega - 'Sing To Jesus' in memory of Derek Cox - YouTube

 

[from scratch]

The OP made this page, it is a copy of the list of commandments, statues and Instructions. What do you find redundant?

None. Why?

Who do you think gave these Commandments, Statues and Instructions? Which,( or if all, state 'ALL'), of these shrivels your spirit?

Again none. Why?

We'll just start with the top ten and go on from there.

I would like to focus on the 4th if you don't mind.

He certainly wasn't speaking of the Torah there. One is under burden because one sins.

No one is under condemnation and judgement because they sin. The burden is making sure that you don't sin. Living under the guidance of the Holy Spirit is much easier. The Holy Spirit doesn't lead one back to or by the law. Gal 5:18.

So am I understanding you correctly Brinny? You believe that G-d Holy word is nothing but "soul-killing nonsense" and "shackles and chains".

Now I don't think that is a very fair question.

 

[from scratch]

Whatever happened to all scripture being God breathed and inerrant? The 613 commandments fall under that, so if you are an inerrantist, you have to believe he gave those commands. Otherwise you're cherry picking.

Who gave them? God the Father or God the Son (Jesus)?

 

[from scratch]

So you don't believe that G-d commanded any of this?

I think your approach about a relationship with God is kinda tilted. I'm sure you prolly feel the same about me. So we're even there.

Which of these in your sight is redundant?

None. So what is the problem?

So you only take the NT as the true word of G-d and nothing from Moses or any of the other prophets, or Kings?

So it seems that you throw out the prophets along with the NT.

Is the NT the written record of the NC? If so why doesn't the NC overrule the OC? It seems you want both and Gal 5:4 says you can't. Jesus said you will only have access to the Father through Him and not the law. JN 10 and 14. There is absolutely no access by the law. It severs one from God.

Yet, it wasn't Jesus that spoke of that, It was King David. And this same King was the one who wrote many songs proclaiming how good G-ds Torah was and is. And it is the Prophet Isaiah who spoke of G-d wiping away the tears. This is repeated in Revelation but spoken through Isaiah first.

I am not sure why you have posted this. Are you equating this as others have wrongly done that G-ds instructions are a burden?

Was Jesus offering them what they already had or something different?

Yet you said that was not a command of G-d?above (To love Him ~ Deuteronomy 6:05) That is the Shema, that is what Jesus was speaking of. It is found in /Deuteronomy, which you claim was written by man, thus not to be followed.

I haven't read where Brinny said such a thing. Why is it that any similarities between the testaments (covenants) makes them both the same? Doesn't that deny the NC and the work of Jesus on the cross? What about what Jesus did or does in heaven? That violates the law making Jesus a sinner. I have Hebrews 7:12 in mind here. That verse plainly says the law changed. The law is a single undivisible unit. James and Paul both say this. Jesus and the pharisees treat the law this way as well.

I find it interesting that Jesus didn't respond with one of the commandments written with the finger of God on stone as the most important. So obviously the 10 Cs are very over emphasized here in GT.

Oh, and the second part, to Love your neighbor as yourself? That comes from another part of Torah, Leviticus, (19:18) There was no clarification. In fact Jesus was just repeating something another Rabbi had taught before, his name was Hillel.

To do justly and love mercy and walk humbly before G-d is to love him by keeping his commandment and love and show mercy to your neighbor as yourself.

Yes and we have a dispute what God's commandment(s) to the Christian is/are.

 

[from scratch]

Again, Brinny, I was asking him if he followed those rules handed down in Acts 15.

If Jesus work is finished as many believe it is then how is it that he is serving in heaven right now or don't you believe that?

Everything that has been prophesied in the Bible has not come to pass, therefore the Torah cannot pass either.

To what did Jesus say It was finished?

Oh yes it has according to Jesus. Jesus clarified this very thing in LK 24:44 - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

And is Hebrews 7:12 an outright lie or is there some manuscript evidence such is a pollution?

 

[from scratch]

Then you don't listen to anything Jesus said?

Me wonders who does since both sides of the debate question the other on this? I personally think there is much denial on the part of some.

 

[listed]

Who gave them? God the Father or God the Son (Jesus)?

Very good question.

 

[listed]

Me wonders who does since both sides of the debate question the other on this? I personally think there is much denial on the part of some.

For sure.

 

[SummaScriptura]

I think I can empathasize with why there is so much confusion on this. The Bible is a complex collection of books, and quite large. It can take years, even decades for people to develop a well-integrated picture of the whole thing.

For the record, I think God is gracious to all his creatures and is not gooing to knock someone off the map because they overlooked some verse in the Book of Ezra.

That being said, here is the synthesis that works for me...

1. All of the Bible is God-breathed. The traditions of the elders of Israel, outside of the Bible are not. Jesus disobeyed the traditions of the elders of Israel, not the Scriptures, which He upheld.

2. All of the Bible, including the N.T. is to be considered "torah" or "intruction", not just Moses.

3. Certain laws of the Bible change over time. Adam: "eat fruits and veggies!" Noah: "you can eat all animals,now!" Moses: "you can only eat select animals now". Peter: "arise and kill and eat all animals now".

4. Jesus is the "prophet like Moses" prophesied to come in Deuteronomy 18, so Jesus' words of instruction supercede Moses' words of instruction (torah).

5. Saul was convicted for not staying current with God's instruction, therefore "kicking against the goads", or resisting change and moving forward.

6. All that the New Testament teaches, the words of the Apostles, are the intructions of Christ to and thru His Church, so the New Testament supercedes the older Testament.

 

[Wally Cleaver]

Here's a couple good ones to clear up confusion for me:

1) I'll stay with your number 1 plus my ()

1. All of the Bible is God-breathed (I'm not ruling out a small omission or addition here or there). The traditions of the elders of Israel, outside of the Bible are not. Jesus disobeyed the traditions of the elders of Israel, not the Scriptures, which He upheld.

2) British Israelism - British Crown descends from David and the coronation stone is Jacobs pillar - pillow. (2 Samuel 7 13-16, Gen ch 49, Elizabeth2Gorippleeffect @ youtube) 12 tribes in Kingdom of Isreal, 10 in the House of Israel, 2 House of Judah.

3) Paul agrees with Jesus and the Law, as many read it. Meh, if someone wants to risk eating pork, there is no criminal penalty due.

4) God repeatably said his law was forever, and punished Israel often for forsaking it.

 

[SummaScriptura]

Here's a couple good ones to clear up confusion for me:

1) I'll stay with your number 1 plus my ()



2) British Israelism - British Crown descends from David and the coronation stone is Jacobs pillar - pillow. (2 Samuel 7 13-16, Gen ch 49, Elizabeth2Gorippleeffect @ youtube) 12 tribes in Kingdom of Isreal, 10 in the House of Israel, 2 House of Judah.

3) Paul agrees with Jesus and the Law, as many read it. Meh, if someone wants to risk eating pork, there is no criminal penalty due.

4) God repeatably said his law was forever, and punished Israel often for forsaking it.

I have to disagree with 2 & 3.

Regarding 4, yes, God said it was forever, in other words, "don't be monkeying with my laws, you guys!" But now, Jesus the prophet like Moses has changed things. He too, like Moses had this ability and since he is the latter and the last his changes are final.

 

[Wally Cleaver]

I have to disagree with 2 & 3.

Regarding 4, yes, God said it was forever, in other words, "don't be monkeying with my laws, you guys!" But now, Jesus the prophet like Moses has changed things. He too, like Moses had this ability and since he is the latter and the last his changes are final.

Can you quote where Jesus said he was changing the law? Perhaps he did change the sacrificial temple portion and the priesthood (Leviticus) , but the national law of mainly Deuteronomy, no. But he didn't even say that that I can recall...

For Moses received the vision of a the temple concerning the tabernacle, etc yada yada, where he saw the real, so changing to to the real sacrifice and temple, o.k, change acceptable.

But he received Deuteronomy in writing and not a vision of the real, for how could the laws of a nation written by God be changed to Roman (Greek whatev). (democracy etc) or other?

Don't make me break out the verses where God says the throne will last forever.