Do you agree that Christians should obey all 613 commandments?

[tzadik]

Well when it comes to yokes, I believe it was the apostles discussing how the yoke of the law was too great for the Jews to carry in Acts 15, I think, and it was Jesus himself that called for people to come to him, for his yoke was easy and his burden light.

I’m glad you went to Acts 15. The apostles were absolutely not talking about the Holy Law of God in verse 10. It is clear from the beginning of the chapter that the subject at hand was the Pharisees, adding to God’s Word and requiring Gentiles to be circumcised before they were considered saved, or part of God’s people. This we know is obviously NOT according to God’s Law and the apostles make it clear throughout this passage that both Jews and Gentiles are saved ONLY by Grace through the cleansing of their hearts by faith. (verse 9 and 11) The heavy yoke spoken of here was the added burden that the Pharisees were adding and imposing on believers.

This is the same issue that Messiah dealt with in Matthew 23; “therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger.”
The Pharisees were guilty of imposing rules and regulations that were extra-biblical, therefore creating burdens and yokes that not even they themselves carried.
“But He said, "Woe to you lawyers as well! For you weigh men down with burdens hard to bear, while you yourselves will not even touch the burdens with one of your fingers.” Notice again this is strictly referring to man-made rules added to God’s Word and imposed on men. The sect of Pharisees in Acts 15 were also guilty of this (this time adding circumcision as a requirement for salvation).

If the apostles were calling God’s Holy Commandments an unbearable yoke they would be calling God a liar in Deuteronomy 30:11-14 who said: "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. "It is not in heaven, that you should say, `Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' "Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, `Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.” [[Paul quotes this very passage in Romans 10 equating God’s Law to Messiah]]

And how about John’s clear statement in 1 John 5:3 telling us that God’s commandments ARE NOT BURDENSOME. Not to mention Paul’s keeping of God’s Law in Acts 21:24 and James calling God’s Holy Law the Royal and Perfect Law of Liberty.
All of this clearly indicates that the subject at hand in Acts 15:10 was DEFINITELY not the Law of God
For His Law is perfect, holy, righteous, spiritual and good!

 

[Wally Cleaver]

The law is impossible and easy, all at the same time.

Impossible if you're not born again, because you're just a spirit living out the wims of your body. Easy if you're a spirit who has defeated the flesh, or "crucified the flesh daily" - 40 day fast.

Ah but who has the 'sack' for that?

Deut 23:1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the assembly of Jehovah.

 

[listed]

The law is impossible and easy, all at the same time.

Impossible if you're not born again, because you're just a spirit living out the wims of your body. Easy if you're a spirit who has defeated the flesh, or "crucified the flesh daily" - 40 day fast.

Ah but who has the 'sack' for that?

Deut 23:1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the assembly of Jehovah.

Hey how is the Beaver doing? Is he still pestering you? Couldn't resist.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by Wally Cleaver
The law is impossible and easy, all at the same time.

Impossible if you're not born again, because you're just a spirit living out the wims of your body. Easy if you're a spirit who has defeated the flesh, or "crucified the flesh daily" - 40 day fast.

Ah but who has the 'sack' for that?

Deut 23:1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the assembly of Jehovah.

Hey how is the Beaver doing? Is he still pestering you? Couldn't resist.

 

[Lulav]

All this talk of yokes, I've searched my bible and can't find anywhere that Jesus said that his fathers commandments were a yoke. can anyone help me find it?

 

[SolomonVII]

All this talk of yokes, I've searched my bible and can't find anywhere that Jesus said that his fathers commandments were a yoke. can anyone help me find it?

Context: the party of the Pharisees who had become believers stood up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and direct them to observe the Mosaic law.”

Acts 15:10

Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?

 

[tzadik]

Context: the party of the Pharisees who had become believers stood up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and direct them to observe the Mosaic law.”

Acts 15:10

Context: Acts 15:1
"Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, 'Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved'."

Perhaps you should re-read this.
God's Word is not a unbearable burden by His Own admission in Deuteronomy 30:11-14 and John reconfirms this in 1 John 5:3.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by SolomonVII Context: the party of the Pharisees who had become believers stood up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and direct them to observe the Mosaic law.”

Acts 15:10

Context: Acts 15:1
"Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, 'Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved'."

Perhaps you should re-read this.
God's Word is not a unbearable burden by His Own admission in Deuteronomy 30:11-14 and John reconfirms this in 1 John 5:3.

Sounds like the same ones spoken of in Acts 20:29
http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus
The Pharisees

Matthew 23:4 "For they are binding burdens, weighty/barea <926> and ill-bearing.
And they are placing upon the shoulders of the men, to the yet finger of them, not are willing to move them".

Acts 20:29 "For I have perceived this. That shall be entering after the departure of me, wolves, weighty, into ye, no sparing of-the shepherded/flock"
[Matt 23:4/Philip 3:2]

.

 

[brinny]

Sounds like the same ones spoken of in Acts 20:29
Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
The Pharisees

Matthew 23:4 "For they are binding burdens, weighty/barea <926> and ill-bearing.
And they are placing upon the shoulders of the men, to the yet finger of them, not are willing to move them".

Acts 20:29 "For I have perceived this. That shall be entering after the departure of me, wolves, weighty, into ye, no sparing of-the shepherded/flock"
[Matt 23:4/Philip 3:2]

.

interesting...about the flock and how a false "shepherd' weighs down and burdens the flock, which is the complete antithesis to a true Shepherd, Who loves his flock so much, He gives His life for them. HE carries burdens for them, and feeds them and protects them from those who would burden and devour them (because they have no love or compassion for them).

 

[Lulav]

Context: the party of the Pharisees who had become believers stood up and said, &#8220;It is necessary to circumcise them and direct them to observe the Mosaic law.&#8221;

Acts 15:10

In Context they were speaking of salvation.


Now for those who want to be in covenant with him....................

Who does he keep Covenant with? A Covenant of LOVE, not burden, nor a yoke.

7:9 Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commands.


Hmm, now how long is 1000 generations?

If a generation is only say 20-25 years long then a thousand generations would be 20years X 1000= 20,000 years!

Now this covenant isn't that old, not nearly.

Now Jesus said

there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

What commandments would he be teaching his fellow Jews to keep? The torah, nothing else. That is what brings life, at least according to Jesus, now if you don't want to listen to him.............

Now when asked, to be sure what Commandments he was speaking of, he said this:

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear , O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31 And the second is like, namely this ,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
There is none other commandment greater than these.

Notice that he said there were no commandments greater than those two, but he did not say that was all there was.

John defined this in a way that we know that we are loving G-d.

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.1 John 5:2

He is saying that the only way you can do the second greatest commandment is to do the first greatest, and that is to love G-d and keep his commandments.

What is the love shown to G-d?

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Nor are they a yoke, or a burden.

Who are the ones that the Adversary, The Satan, hates?

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And who does Jesus call the Saints??

Here is the patience of the saints:
here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Rev 14:12

Seems that just believing in Jesus isn't enough.

 

[brinny]

Lulav, you are correct in that the bottom line is love. it encompasses all that God was speaking of from the gitgo, going all the way back to when Eve had ears to hear the serpent who defied and questioned God's Words to her (and Adam). Eve allowed another "love" to enter her heart, as God was pushed aside, and she contemplated what she desired more than loving God....it was to be "wise", to be "as God". She no longer loved God. Her new love was herself.

this was "sin', and it is the same as when an angel of the Almighty God sought to be "as God". There is nothing new under the sun. it was the same then, as it is now. Always has been and always will be (having no love for God in our hearts).

Love is the remedy. Only Jesus could plant that in our hearts. It is in loving God with all that is in us, that springs forth loving others as ourselves, and all else falling into place. For if we love God with all our hearts, our hearts and minds are transformed to be as our Savior's. in that, there is no condemnation, no need to "prove" we love God, for His Spirit will guide our thoughts, our words, and our deeds. His light will shine through us as a testimony to His life within us. This pouring out of His grace from us will be a testimony of itself. His Light will shine in the darkest of places, through us, and it is HE Who will accomplish all He sets out to do, through us, praise His name.

 

[Lulav]

Yes, you are correct, it has always been a choice of who do you love, who do you put first really. That is why the greatest commandment is the Shema.

The LoRD is ONE. There is only one, all else falls short.

But you said that:

Love is the remedy. Only Jesus could plant that in our hearts. It is in loving God with all that is in us, that springs forth loving others as ourselves, and all else falling into place. For if we love God with all our hearts, our hearts and minds are transformed to be as our Savior's

But we must show G-d that love the same way that Jesus did, in obedience. He taught us how to walk uprightly before the Father, do as he did. What did he say?

21 times the phrase 'Follow me' is found in the NT (depending on which version). Each time, Jesus is speaking about the way to walk before G-d. To emulate him.

The word translated as 'Follow' in Greek is ajkolouqevw a combination of words that mean

union and road.

to join on the road.

The Road is the way, Jesus said he was the Way, not himself, but what he did, that is the way to G-d. No one comes to the Father but through 'the way' the road. He saying 'Follow me' is telling us to join him on the right path, the right road, be in union with him, walking the same way before G-d.

 

[brinny]

Yes, you are correct, it has always been a choice of who do you love, who do you put first really. That is why the greatest commandment is the Shema.

The LoRD is ONE. There is only one, all else falls short.

But you said that:


But we must show G-d that love the same way that Jesus did, in obedience. He taught us how to walk uprightly before the Father, do as he did. What did he say?

21 times the phrase 'Follow me' is found in the NT (depending on which version). Each time, Jesus is speaking about the way to walk before G-d. To emulate him.

The word translated as 'Follow' in Greek is ajkolouqevw a combination of words that mean

union and road.

to join on the road.

The Road is the way, Jesus said he was the Way, not himself, but what he did, that is the way to G-d. No one comes to the Father but through 'the way' the road. He saying 'Follow me' is telling us to join him on the right path, the right road, be in union with him, walking the same way before G-d.

If we love God with all our hearts as His Holy Spirit abides within us, it is done. God KNOWS our hearts. Love is reconciled with our Father. It is accomplished, that which was planned since the fall. Jesus became the Bridge to our Father. There is no separation. We can run into His throne room joyfully like a small child runs to their loving father, as the father rejoices over this child, likewise as God, our Father does with us when He rejoices over us with singing.

Jesus HIMSELF is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, praise God. He is GOOD!

 

[JRSut1000]

Christianity becomes very 'relative' when we throw out the instructions of the Bible and just use the excuse 'He knows my heart' and 'its just about love'. I don't think we'd have as much moral and doctrinal differences if we just accepted that God's instructions for living are best right down to how we eat and how we relate to people and when we rest, etc.

 

[brinny]

Christianity becomes very 'relative' when we throw out the instructions of the Bible and just use the excuse 'He knows my heart' and 'its just about love'. I don't think we'd have as much moral and doctrinal differences if we just accepted that God's instructions for living are best right down to how we eat and how we relate to people and when we rest, etc.

Sounds like Proverbs.....

 

[Mark1976]

What? 613? Geesh. Most Christians have trouble with ten, nevermind 613.
No, it's impossible. Try, yes. But, we are saved by grace, not by keeping commandments, thank God.

 

[Lulav]

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.............

Jesus followed the words of his father, he spoke and taught the words of his father, these words are his Torah.

The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

How can we say we don't have to because he did? Are we above him, are we putting ourselves above him?

 

[brinny]

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls." ~Matthew 11:28-29

 

[brinny]

Lord of Eternity - Fernando Ortega (Live) - YouTube

Blessed is the man
Who walks in Your favor
Who loves all Your words
And hides them like treasure
In the darkest place
Of his desperate heart,
They are a light
A strong, sure light.

Sometimes I call out Your name
But I cannot find You.
I look for Your face,
But You are not there.
By my sorrows, Lord,
Lift me to You,
Lift me to Your side.

CHORUS
Lord of Eternity,
Father of mercy,
Look on my fainting soul.
Keeper of all the stars,
Friend of the poorest heart
Touch me and make me whole.:

If You are my defender,
Who is against me?
No one can trouble or harm me
If You are my strength .
All I ask, all I desire
Is to live in Your house all my days.

CHORUS​

 

[brinny]

....from the arms of death, from the deepest grave...

I Will Praise Him Still - Fernando Ortega - YouTube