Do you agree that Christians should obey all 613 commandments?

[from scratch]

which ones did God, Himself, write?

Well it is said that Moses said God wrote something on stone. But is Moses creditable? There is nothing left but the words of Moses. Other people supposedly talked about them. But based on what? All we have is some man's writing. Why is Moses more creditable than Paul?

 

[from scratch]

Most times it was what the LORD told the Prophets to write I would think.
I am still trying to figure out all the laws here in my home state of Texas, and thatis a daughting task!...but..wat da heckz doo eye nosz

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
"write"
occurs 91 times in 82 verses in the KJV

KJV) Exodus 17:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this [for] a memorial in a book, and rehearse [it] in the ears of Joshua:
for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

KJV) Revelation 21:5 And He that sat upon the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new".
And He said unto me, "Write: for these words are true and faithful.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7554699-2/#post57325347
I feel like the bible doesnt apply to me because Im a fluke of nature

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU6eTVZUWJg

toon

 

[ghendricks63]

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. Matthew 7:12

The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Galatians 5:4

To anybody who wants to keep the letter of the law (the 613), I say you are welcome to them. I will keep the intent of the law by simply obeying the one.

 

[from scratch]

The law of the 10 commandments doesn't say anything about eating pork. The law of the 10 could be numbered differently resulting in more or less commandments but its still the law of the 10 and its different from the other laws pertaining to eating pork. At least 9 of the 10 commandments should be followed. Jesus never spoke against the 10 Cs.

At least the argument is getting weaker.

 

[from scratch]

isn't that a summary of the ten?

Nope!

first four show love toward God and the last six show love toward neighbor?[/quote]Now that is a summary. Why it is stated as a quesion, I don't understand.

 

[from scratch]

These are 9 of the 10 Commandments. Isn't this what Jesus teaches us?


You shall have no other gods before me.

You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

You shall not murder.

You shall not commit adultery.

You shall not steal.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

Nope! Jesus didn't teach the 10 Cs. Is the argument now only for 9 of 10? Why? Why are some folks so desperate to get people to say they keep any part of the law?

 

[from scratch]

although we are under grace, what law is this?:

Romans 7:12 ( NKJV ) 12Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

and what law is this?:

Romans 7:14 ( NKJV ) 14For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

which law is this, that paul delights in, even?:

Romans 7:22 ( NKJV ) 22For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.

what law is paul serving?:

Romans 7:25 ( NKJV ) 25I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

what law do we not make void?:

Romans 3:31 ( NKJV ) 31Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

while you're at it, explain how we "establish the law"!

will be looking forward to your answer.

Which one of those references indicate a Christians obligation to keep the law?

 

[JohnRabbit]

Well it is said that Moses said God wrote something on stone. But is Moses creditable? There is nothing left but the words of Moses. Other people supposedly talked about them. But based on what? All we have is some man's writing. Why is Moses more creditable than Paul?

ok, so again, out of the 613 commandments, which ones did God write?

 

[JohnRabbit]

Which one of those references indicate a Christians obligation to keep the law?

well since you jumped in, let's put christian obligation "on the shelf" for a minute.

although we are under grace, what law is this?:

Romans 7:12 ( NKJV ) 12Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

and what law is this?:

Romans 7:14 ( NKJV ) 14For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

which law is this, that paul delights in, even?:

Romans 7:22 ( NKJV ) 22For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.

what law is paul serving?:

Romans 7:25 ( NKJV ) 25I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

what law do we not make void?:

Romans 3:31 ( NKJV ) 31Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

while you're at it, explain how we "establish the law"!

all i want to know is what law is paul talking about.

i know you can answer this question

 

[from scratch]

ok, so again, out of the 613 commandments, which ones did God write?

All we have is Moses' word. So tell me.

 

[from scratch]

well since you jumped in, let's put christian obligation "on the shelf" for a minute.

although we are under grace, what law is this?:

Romans 7:12 ( NKJV ) 12Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

and what law is this?:

Romans 7:14 ( NKJV ) 14For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

which law is this, that paul delights in, even?:

Romans 7:22 ( NKJV ) 22For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.

what law is paul serving?:

Romans 7:25 ( NKJV ) 25I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

what law do we not make void?:

Romans 3:31 ( NKJV ) 31Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

while you're at it, explain how we "establish the law"!

Please tell me what is meant by establish. Then I can answer you.

all i want to know is what law is paul talking about.

Really? Make me a believer, please.

i know you can answer this question

You bet I can. When you define something solid to chat about.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Nope! Jesus didn't teach the 10 Cs. Is the argument now only for 9 of 10? Why? Why are some folks so desperate to get people to say they keep any part of the law?

so, what is He doing in matt 19:16-20?

we read this in the bible, the words of the Christ, and we are to believe you that Christ didn't teach the commandments? you guys are amazing!

remember, His answer was in conjunction with salvation!

and what about in matt 5, where He is not only teaching about the ten, but He expounds on the spiritual intent of the law?

why are you so desperate to kick God's law to the curb?

 

[JohnRabbit]

[/COLOR]Please tell me what is meant by establish. Then I can answer you.Really? Make me a believer, please.You bet I can. When you define something solid to chat about.

why do i have to define words before you can answer any question i pose to you?

i don't get it.

why can't you just answer the questions, they're pretty straightforward.

i have to go pay some bills , but would like to continue this.

got paid today, you know?

 

[ghendricks63]

why do i have to define words before you can answer any question i pose to you?

i don't get it.

why can't you just answer the questions, they're pretty straightforward.

i have to go pay some bills , but would like to continue this.

got paid today, you know?

I'll take a stab at it.

Moses declared that God gave him the 10 commandments. Moses also declared that the 613 laws were from God. Seems to me if you accept Moses word at one you have to accept them at the other.

But this really has no bearing on the discussion as to whether we are still bound to obey the law or not now does it?

 

[Isolation]

Well the Pharisees kept the laws blamelessy
but they were condemned

 

[11822]

Nope! Jesus didn't teach the 10 Cs. Is the argument now only for 9 of 10? Why? Why are some folks so desperate to get people to say they keep any part of the law?

Disobeying 9 of the 10 Cs results in walking according to the flesh. It seems ridiculous to say that the law is summed up by loving your neighbor and then say we're free from the law, because this also means i am free to not love my neighbor.

 

[11822]

Well the Pharisees kept the laws blamelessy
but they were condemned

The pharisees were hypocrites who desired blood more than mercy. The prophets foretold Jesus coming but they didn't keep that blamelessly. They only thought they kept the law blamelessly. They rejected the one who fulfills the law, they were not blameless. Jesus called them hypocrites, He commanded His followers to do as the pharisees say but not as they do, because they themselves don't do as they say.

 

[11822]

Notice that Jesus tells His followers to do as the Pharisees say but not according to their works? Hes telling them to obey the law.


Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mt 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mt 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mt 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Mt 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
Mt 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
Mt 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Mt 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mt 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mt 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

 

[ghendricks63]

Disobeying 9 of the 10 Cs results in walking according to the flesh. It seems ridiculous to say that the law is summed up by loving your neighbor and then say we're free from the law, because this also means i am free to not love my neighbor.

This statement makes no logical sense and your implication that to embrace the intent of the law (love) over the letter of the law (the written code) is to reject both is disengenuous. What seems rediculous to you is precisely what we are taught under the new covenant.

 

[ghendricks63]

Notice that Jesus tells His followers to do as the Pharisees say but not according to their works? Hes telling them to obey the law.


Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mt 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mt 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mt 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Mt 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
Mt 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
Mt 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Mt 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mt 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mt 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

No you misunderstand the meaning of this passage. Jesus is not stating that we are to forever keep the law...he is stating that they were under the law of Moses. This of course was true since His sacrifice ushering in the new covenant which did away with the law (Paul refers to it being nailed to the cross along with our sin) had not yet come to pass. Furthermore the law was only given to reveal sin (again...Paul) not to save for it is completely powerless to save anyone.