Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments?

[from scratch]

I have been clear on my position. So are you advocating lawlessness? Or not?

There certianly is a difference isn't there? I think it is unmistakeable that Frogster fully endorses the NC which isn't the law. Bet ya he loves Galatians 5 as much as I do. I also love Romans 8:2 which has already been quoted in this thread. If I got a thread mixed up here it is just incase - For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. What is the law of death? 7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, And what was written in stones? The what, Yeppers that's correct the law. Paul identifies it as the law in Rom 7:6-8 and James does the same in 2:10, 11.

 

[Lysimachus]

How can we keep spmething that was not permanent, was death and condemnation? Green = permanent, and it was not the 10.


7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? 9 For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. 10 Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

Frogster, you have a warped and twisted view of the Ministration of Death. The fact is, God's law can only kill you when you are in direct violation of it. The only way to be free from the condemnation of the law is through Christ, by faith, which frees you from the shackles of sin (transgression of the law). The law cannot save, it can only kill. How does it kill? When you break it!

That's why it is the ministration of death.

So how is it that the ministration of death has no condemning power over you?

When you have the letters written in the heart by the Spirit, where you keep them out of love.

The only way to be free from the law is to KEEP the law by the Spirit, by faith. The law can only be kept by faith, and not the works of the law. And living by faith does not mean disobedience to them. It is a faith that works by love and purifies the soul.

Many people erroneous think that obeying the 10 commandments, such as, rest on God's holy Sabbath (*cough* *cough*...oops, just opened a can of worms sunnies! ) means you're living "by works". This is a foolish perverted interpretation of obedience. Living by works has NOTHING to do with the physical keeping of laws or commandments. It has to do with the MOTIVE! In other words, it is a HEART issue. If you are trying to obey the commandments to earn your way to heaven, because you feel as though it is a ticket into heaven, you will NEVER earn salvation, as salvation does not come by works. It is by faith ALONE! And not by the works of the law.

However, your works will be the RESULT of your faith. Your MOTIVE for keeping them will be right! In other words, as a result of your love for God, and because you have been saved, you will naturally yearn from your heart to be obedient to God.

But to think that you can possibly make it to heaven without works is a deception. It is a deadly deception. And anyone who thinks thus is deceived. Very deceived.

Now get this: Salvation is by faith alone, and not the works of the law. Yet, James 2 makes it very clear that works will follow.

Therefore, if obedience to the law does not follow, what does that reveal? That your faith is dead!

2 Cor 3:3 irrefutably proves that the same laws are to be written not with ink, but by the ministration of the spirit in the tables of the heart.

If they do not transfer from the head to the heart, it means absolutely nothing. The letter kills---but if it is written on the heart by the Spirit (meaning, you want to keep them out of true love), it brings life!

That's what the popular evangelical world doesn't get.

And when they try and argue that they don't have to keep the 10 commandments, they are revealing that they have not truly been saved, and that the love of God is truly not dwelling in their heart. It reveals that they are rebellious in their heart and have not been transformed by the Spirit.

"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was." (James 1:22-24)

 

[Frogster]

Frogster, you have a warped and twisted view of the Ministration of Death. The fact is, God's law can only kill you when you are in direct violation of it. The only way to be free from the condemnation of the law is through Christ, by faith, which frees you from the shackles of sin (transgression of the law). The law cannot save, it can only kill. How does it kill? When you break it!

That's why it is the ministration of death.

So how is it that the ministration of death has no condemning power over you?

When you have the letters written in the heart by the Spirit, where you keep them out of love.

The only way to be free from the law is to KEEP the law by the Spirit, by faith. The law can only be kept by faith, and not the works of the law. And living by faith does not mean disobedience to them. It is a faith that works by love and purifies the soul.

Many people erroneous think that obeying the 10 commandments, such as, rest on God's holy Sabbath (*cough* *cough*...oops, just opened a can of worms sunnies! ) means you're living "by works". This is a foolish perverted interpretation of obedience. Living by works has NOTHING to do with the physical keeping of laws or commandments. It has to do with the MOTIVE! In other words, it is a HEART issue. If you are trying to obey the commandments to earn your way to heaven, because you feel as though it is a ticket into heaven, you will NEVER earn salvation, as salvation does not come by works. It is by faith ALONE! And not by the works of the law.

However, your works will be the RESULT of your faith. Your MOTIVE for keeping them will be right! In other words, as a result of your love for God, and because you have been saved, you will naturally yearn from your heart to be obedient to God.

But to think that you can possibly make it to heaven without works is a deception. It is a deadly deception. And anyone who thinks thus is deceived. Very deceived.

Now get this: Salvation is by faith alone, and not the works of the law. Yet, James 2 makes it very clear that works will follow.

Therefore, if obedience to the law does not follow, what does that reveal? That your faith is dead!

2 Cor 3:3 irrefutably proves that the same laws are to be written not with ink, but by the ministration of the spirit in the tables of the heart.

If they do not transfer from the head to the heart, it means absolutely nothing. The letter kills---but if it is written on the heart by the Spirit (meaning, you want to keep them out of true love), it brings life!

That's what the popular evangelical world doesn't get.

And when they try and argue that they don't have to keep the 10 commandments, they are revealing that they have not truly been saved, and that the love of God is truly not dwelling in their heart. It reveals that they are rebellious in their heart and have not been transformed by the Spirit.

"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was." (James 1:22-24)

Incorrect, it was never able to give life, was it?

Gal 3:21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.


It worked death in Paul.

Romans 7:10 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me.

It was called a ministry of death, that is a clear objective scriptural truth.

2 Cor 3:7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,

What kills?

2 Cor 3:6 who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.



Please advise, only please, can you please shorten it up a bit, makes for a smoother conversation, thanks!

 

[sheina]

The only way to be free from the law is to KEEP the law by the Spirit, by faith. The law can only be kept by faith, and not the works of the law. And living by faith does not mean disobedience to them. It is a faith that works by love and purifies the soul.

This entire statement makes no sense whatsoever. How can you keep the law by faith and not by the works of the law? You are either walking in the Spirit or you are trying to accomplish that which Christ has ALREADY accomplished on the cross of Calvary.

The "works" which James speaks of are those which God, through the indwelling Holy Spirit, has ALREADY "worked in us":

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I have a couple of questions for you:

Do you believe that keeping the law will get you into heaven?

Do you believe that "faith and works" are the two oars by which the believer is propelled into glory?

From a tract titled Saved By Grace: (This is an SDA tract)

"Christ says to every man in this world what He said to the rich young ruler: `If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments,' Matthew 19:17. In other words, THE STANDARD FOR ADMISSION INTO HEAVEN IS A CHARACTER BUILT ACCORDING TO THE TEN SPECIFICATIONS, OR COMMANDMENTS, OF GOD'S LAW. ... He can lift you up to the place where the requirements of the law are met in you. ... THE MASTER BUILDER WILL STAND RIGHT WITH YOU AND IN YOU, AND SEE TO IT PERSONALLY THAT YOUR LIFE COMES UP TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF GOD'S LAW" (Charles T. Everson, Saved By Grace, pp. 45-46).

According to this tract, this is NOT the "grace" that saves...it is a "grace" that is foreign to the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

Aren't the "requirements of the law" met in Christ alone? It is impossible for anyone to meet the requirements of the law, except Christ.

 

[Frogster]

What I wonder about is the repercussions.

 

[Frogster]

What the law cannot do (this would include the entire 613 commandments..not just the 10):

1. It cannont justify:

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

2. It cannot redeem:

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

3. It cannot give an inheritance:

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

4. It cannot control sin in man (Romans 7:7-23):

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

5. It cannot free from sin and death (Romsns 8:2):

6. It cannot free a sinner from condemnation:

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit

7. It cannot bring righteousness (Romans 8:4).

8. It cannot impart the Holy Spirit:

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

9. It cannot free from the curse:

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

10. It cannot impart grace:

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

11. It cannot enable a man to obey:

Hebrews 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

12. It cannot make perfect:

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

One "proclaims" salvation by "walking in the Spirit", not "after the flesh". The OT law cannot "fix" the flesh to enable it to "obey the 10". By "walking in the Spirit", one allows the Spirit to produce the nine manifestations of the "fruit of the Spirit":

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

The Holy Spirit produces the fruit...not us. The New Testament declares that those OT ordinances of the law have been "nailed to the cross of Christ" (Colossians 2:14). The only purpose of the OT law was to reveal sin...like a schoolmaster. (Galatians 3:23-25) This doesn't mean we become "lawless"...we are now under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:1-2), which is a "higher law of love". This is only produced by the Holy Spirit of God, not by OUR obedience to the OT law, which is called the "law of sin and death".

Wooooow! great work!

 

[Frogster]

Watch out! Here come the Antinomians.

Actually, the law is the...

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

 

[Frogster]

One of my favorites!

yep..and why is that command not valid? Either we get cut, and follow all the laws, and all the festivals, or we dont.

 

[sheina]

yep..and why is that command not valid? Either we get cut, and follow all the laws, and all the festivals, or we dont.

Exactly!

 

[Frogster]

Exactly!

And no doubt, men breath a sigh of relief.

 

[Lysimachus]

Incorrect, it was never able to give life, was it?

Gal 3:21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.


It worked death in Paul.

It worked death only when it wasn't kept by the Spirit.

Romans 7:10 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me.

Why not read the rest of Romans 7:

7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].
7:12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

This proves that with we must serve the law of God, not the law of sin. The law that Paul is talking about brings death only when it is violated. This was before Paul's conversion. If we are in the Spirit, we will keep the 10 commandments.

Period.

It was called a ministry of death, that is a clear objective scriptural truth.

2 Cor 3:7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,

What kills?

That is right, it is the ministration of death. But your perverted interpretation of this needs to be cleaned out of your mind. At it smells like a stinking rag that hasn't been washed in a decade or two. Once again, the law destroys, and the law kills. It only brings death. But when the righteousness of Christ is in you, and you are free from sin, it has no power over you. Therefore, obedience to the commandments, ONLY when done by the Spirit, brings life. To interpret it ANY OTHER WAY is to contradict Paul in other places.

Paul says:

"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. FOR THIS [Notice that Paul is going to give some examples of what "loving one another" means], Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 13:8-10)

Scripture is clear brother. The 10 commandments are implicated. If your heart has been renewed and regenerated by the Spirit, you will keep them out of love. Only people who are "doers" of God's commandments will receive the Seal of God.

2 Cor 3:6 who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Yes, and that new and better covenant has to do with those same laws written in the heart. See Jeremiah 31:31-33; Hebrews 8:6-10; 10:16,17.

And you want to know what is intrinsically tied to this "Better Testament"?

I'll tell you:

The ORIGINAL 10 commandments in the Ark of the Covenant in heaven!

"And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail." (Revelation 11:19)

"And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened." (Revelation 15:5)

The Ten Commandments in the Old Testament were called the "testimony" and the "tables of the testimony" See Exodus 25:16; 25:21,22; 31:18; 32:15; 34:29.

Scriptures teach us that the Old Testament sanctuary was a "figure" of the "true"--the heavenly. See Hebrews 8:1,2; 9:24. The earthly sanctuary pointed forward to Christ's High Priestly Ministry of the New Covenant.

We are now living under a NEW MEDIATION, a NEW MINISTRY. The New Covenant, which is based on the ministration of Christ in the Heavenly Sanctuary. The earthly sanctuary and its earthly priestly services have been abolished at the cross in favor of Christ's High Priestly ministration in the Heavenly Sanctuary.

But the 10 Commandments are still the BASIS of that foundational law for which the ministration revolved to atone for! When someone broke the law, it required an animal sacrifice, or a burnt offering, or a meat offering...and physical circumcision. The Ten Commandments given to Moses were a copy of the true Testimony in heaven.

And Revelation 11:19; 15:5; and James 2:10-12 point irrefutably to this fact.

So Frogster, I got big news for you. Gigantic news for you! If you truly love God, and have truly saved, PROVE it and start being obedient (out of true love) to all 10 of God's commandments.

You are being judged, no longer by the earthly tables, but by the HEAVENLY ORIGINAL located in the Ark of God's Testament in the HEAVENLY sanctuary.

This is why we obtain Mercy. The 10 commandments are located BELOW the Mercy Seat! Only can we obtain mercy when we recognize that transgression against God's Original Testimony is sin. But if we don't recognize that breaking the Ten Commandments is sin, then it's impossible to be forgiven over sin we cannot even see as sin.

 

[Frogster]

It worked death only when it wasn't kept by the Spirit.



Why not read the rest of Romans 7:

7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].
7:12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

This proves that with we must serve the law of God, not the law of sin. The law that Paul is talking about brings death only when it is violated. This was before Paul's conversion. If we are in the Spirit, we will keep the 10 commandments.

Period.



That is right, it is the ministration of death. But your perverted interpretation of this needs to be cleaned out of your mind. At it smells like a stinking rag that hasn't been washed in a decade or two. Once again, the law destroys, and the law kills. It only brings death. But when the righteousness of Christ is in you, and you are free from sin, it has no power over you. Therefore, obedience to the commandments, ONLY when done by the Spirit, brings life. To interpret it ANY OTHER WAY is to contradict Paul in other places.

Paul says:

"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. FOR THIS [Notice that Paul is going to give some examples of what "loving one another" means], Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 13:8-10)

Scripture is clear brother. The 10 commandments are implicated. If your heart has been renewed and regenerated by the Spirit, you will keep them out of love. Only people who are "doers" of God's commandments will receive the Seal of God.



Yes, and that new and better covenant has to do with those same laws written in the heart. See Jeremiah 31:31-33; Hebrews 8:6-10; 10:16,17.

And you want to know what is intrinsically tied to this "Better Testament"?

I'll tell you:

The ORIGINAL 10 commandments in the Ark of the Covenant in heaven!

"And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail." (Revelation 11:19)

"And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened." (Revelation 15:5)

The Ten Commandments in the Old Testament were called the "testimony" and the "tables of the testimony" See Exodus 25:16; 25:21,22; 31:18; 32:15; 34:29.

Scriptures teach us that the Old Testament sanctuary was a "figure" of the "true"--the heavenly. See Hebrews 8:1,2; 9:24. The earthly sanctuary pointed forward to Christ's High Priestly Ministry of the New Covenant.

We are now living under a NEW MEDIATION, a NEW MINISTRY. The New Covenant, which is based on the ministration of Christ in the Heavenly Sanctuary. The earthly sanctuary and its earthly priestly services have been abolished at the cross in favor of Christ's High Priestly ministration in the Heavenly Sanctuary.

But the 10 Commandments are still the BASIS of that foundational law for which the ministration revolved to atone for! When someone broke the law, it required an animal sacrifice, or a burnt offering, or a meat offering...and physical circumcision. The Ten Commandments given to Moses were a copy of the true Testimony in heaven.

And Revelation 11:19; 15:5; and James 2:10-12 point irrefutably to this fact.

So Frogster, I got big news for you. Gigantic news for you! If you truly love God, and have truly saved, PROVE it and start being obedient (out of true love) to all 10 of God's commandments.

You are being judged, no longer by the earthly tables, but by the HEAVENLY ORIGINAL located in the Ark of God's Testament in the HEAVENLY sanctuary.

This is why we obtain Mercy. The 10 commandments are located BELOW the Mercy Seat! Only can we obtain mercy when we recognize that transgression against God's Original Testimony is sin. But if we don't recognize that breaking the Ten Commandments is sin, then it's impossible to be forgiven over sin we cannot even see as sin.

With all due respect, I have told others too, I don't read all this. Not my style of debate...toodles..

 

[Lysimachus]

With all due respect, I have told others too, I don't read all this. Not my style of debate...toodles..

There is no way for me to shorten it, sorry. I can't make it any shorter if you are going to understand what I believe to be precious truth.

I am writing a book, and some of my posts in forums have been up to 20 pages. The posts above are some of the shortest posts I've ever made.

If we want to learn, we have to read. And read a lot. I just finished a 1000 page book. I think it's important.

My apologies though if you don't like longer posts. I shortened it extensively. I don't know what else to do to make you happy.

 

[Frogster]

There is no way for me to shorten it, sorry. I can't make it any shorter if you are going to understand what I believe to be precious truth.

I am writing a book, and some of my posts in forums have been up to 20 pages. The posts above are some of the shortest posts I've ever made.

If we want to learn, we have to read. And read a lot. I just finished a 1000 page book. I think it's important.

My apologies though if you don't like longer posts. I shortened it extensively. I don't know what else to do to make you happy.

ok, thanks again. Frog.

 

[Elder 111]

What about if there is no comparable job?...or no job openings at all?

What about faith and trust in God?
When is a christian one of doubt and fear?

 

[Elder 111]

Just make sure you never need the police, fire, doctor, ambulance, ect on the sabbath, you wouldn't want to be causing them to work on the Sabbath either would you?

Jesus dealt with that, didn't He?
Did He not heal and feed the hungry on the sabbath.
When will we see represent the true sabbath?
Do you see Jesus leaving the suffering and needy on the Sabbath?

 

[Elder 111]

With all due respect, judaism was a closed system, why do you seem to esteem sabby, over passover, if they had to keep sabby, they had to keep passover. Do we gentiles have to keep it all? How does one just pick what they want to out of the book of the law? 613 laws.

Josh 1:8 This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.

James 2:10.
10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.


Gal 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”


gal 5:3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law

When they got the law, they said "ALL THE LORD SAYS WE WILL DO".
Sooooo..how do we pick and choose?

Very interesting that you are still unable to vote Why?

 

[Elder 111]

No Christian keeps the 10 because none keep the Sabbaths even though some claim to keep them .




That isn't the 10 commandments . That is not even a part of the 10 commandments .




No . If you need to have something written on paper or stone to keep yourself from doing things , it means that that piece of paper or stone is your god .

Does that really make sense to you? Then the bible is my god. Should we burn it that it may not be?
We are much against the truth that we say ridiculous things and do not even realize.
No wonder that Rev. 14 refer our condition as Babylon, Confusion.
It also calls for God's people to come out of that confusion.

 

[Elder 111]

What the law cannot do (this would include the entire 613 commandments..not just the 10):

1. It cannont justify:

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

2. It cannot redeem:

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

3. It cannot give an inheritance:

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

4. It cannot control sin in man (Romans 7:7-23):

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

5. It cannot free from sin and death (Romsns 8:2):

6. It cannot free a sinner from condemnation:

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit

7. It cannot bring righteousness (Romans 8:4).

8. It cannot impart the Holy Spirit:

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

9. It cannot free from the curse:

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

10. It cannot impart grace:

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

11. It cannot enable a man to obey:

Hebrews 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

12. It cannot make perfect:

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

One "proclaims" salvation by "walking in the Spirit", not "after the flesh". The OT law cannot "fix" the flesh to enable it to "obey the 10". By "walking in the Spirit", one allows the Spirit to produce the nine manifestations of the "fruit of the Spirit":

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

The Holy Spirit produces the fruit...not us. The New Testament declares that those OT ordinances of the law have been "nailed to the cross of Christ" (Colossians 2:14). The only purpose of the OT law was to reveal sin...like a schoolmaster. (Galatians 3:23-25) This doesn't mean we become "lawless"...we are now under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:1-2), which is a "higher law of love". This is only produced by the Holy Spirit of God, not by OUR obedience to the OT law, which is called the "law of sin and death".

Do you thing that God was ignorant of those things when He gave the 10 Commandments? Is God short sighted?
Did He give something that is unnecessary?
How would sin be known without the law? Did not Paul make that point?
Is it not that I seek Grace because of sin, violation of the law?
Did not Christ die for our sins, breaking the law?
Do we not ask for forgiveness, breaking the law?
If the law could have been removed, why would Jesus die? After all it is the law that cause death which Christ took for me and you.
Do you know that God's people are those who keep His commandments?

 

[Elder 111]

Antinominianism is a false teaching....that is NOT what is taught when one believes that they are saved by grace alone through faith alone. Salvation does not teach lawlessness. It teaches that we are not under the "curse of the (OT) law, but we are under the law of Christ, which is a higher law. It's not just "Thou shalt not commit adultery"...it is now:

Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Therefore, it's not just the act of adultery that is the sin...it is the THOUGHT.

No, salvation does not teach a "do as you please because you are under grace" Gospel.

So how does the idea that the 10 commandments are abolished fit in with the idea that we are given a higher law?
How could the law "thou shall not commit adultery" be no longer in force but do not even think about it be?:o
Can not you and other see that the very thing you are against is the very thing that you affirm.
Why not admit as did others the commandments are still in force but we will not keep the Sabbath?
Do you realize that the very same 10 commandments says that we should not have no other God. How do you validate remove that? That was nailed to the cross too?