Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments?

[tall73]

It is either completely removed from all christain requirements or it is not.
It is OK to kill or it is not. It is OK to commit adultery or it is not. It is OK to have other gods or it is not.
You can not have that "I am not saying you can do those things" and the 10 commandments are abolished. It is that simple.

It was not ok to kill BEFORE the ten commandments were given to Israel in stone.

The law given to Israel was one expression of lasting principles, given to a particular people, at a particular time, in the context of their land.

It is quite possible for a group NOT to be under that specific law code, yet still be under God's lasting moral principles.

To the degree that the specific law given to Israel spelled out moral commands more clearly than than they ever had been before, the law is still quite instructional. It also is instructional as an illustration of the plan of salvation, through the sacrificial system, etc.

But your idea that those who were not required to be under the mosaic law (which included the ten commandments in Deut.) must therefore reject being under moral direction is not true. It is a strawman.

Gentiles were not required to be circumcised or keep the law.

But they were under moral principles, many of which were spelled out in specific provisions of the law.

 

[Elder 111]

It is a SIGN with ISRAEL that God is the creator. That is what it has to do with Israel.



Exo 31:13 "You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, 'Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'"
Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.


It was a sign with them, between God and the people of Israel, that God was the creator. That is what it has to do with Israel, answered from the text.

Quoted above shows the reason for Sabbath observance, God as creator. In Rev. 14 there is again a call to worship God as creator and it has nothing to do with being an Israelite.
6And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Is this not a reference to the Sabbath? What else carries such a notation?

 

[from scratch]

Quoted above shows the reason for Sabbath observance, God as creator. In Rev. 14 there is again a call to worship God as creator and it has nothing to do with being an Israelite.
6And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Is this not a reference to the Sabbath? What else carries such a notation?

Nope! The blue doesn't mention the sabbath. I guess that either the angel nor John know the word sabbath.

 

[from scratch]

Quoted above shows the reason for Sabbath observance, God as creator. In Rev. 14 there is again a call to worship God as creator and it has nothing to do with being an Israelite.

Come again. What did the very first quoted verse say? And who is you in it?

 

[tall73]

Quoted above shows the reason for Sabbath observance, God as creator.

Indeed, God is Creator and the sabbath was given AS A SIGN TO ISRAEL throughout their generations to remember that.

 

[BondiHarry]

It was not ok to kill BEFORE the ten commandments were given to Israel in stone.

The law given to Israel was one expression of lasting principles, given to a particular people, at a particular time, in the context of their land.

It is quite possible for a group NOT to be under that specific law code, yet still be under God's lasting moral principles.

To the degree that the specific law given to Israel spelled out moral commands more clearly than than they ever had been before, the law is still quite instructional. It also is instructional as an illustration of the plan of salvation, through the sacrificial system, etc.

But your idea that those who were not required to be under the mosaic law (which included the ten commandments in Deut.) must therefore reject being under moral direction is not true. It is a strawman.

Gentiles were not required to be circumcised or keep the law.

But they were under moral principles, many of which were spelled out in specific provisions of the law.

Very well put.

 

[tall73]

In Rev. 14 there is again a call to worship God as creator and it has nothing to do with being an Israelite.

6And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Is this not a reference to the Sabbath? What else carries such a notation?

It is a reference to the CREATOR. I think it even says such.

The Creator is the one we worship:

Psa 146:1 Praise the LORD! Praise the LORD, O my soul!
Psa 146:2 I will praise the LORD as long as I live; I will sing praises to my God while I have my being.
Psa 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation.
Psa 146:4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.
Psa 146:5 Blessed is he whose help is the God of Jacob, whose hope is in the LORD his God,
Psa 146:6 who made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, who keeps faith forever;

Act 4:22 For the man on whom this sign of healing was performed was more than forty years old.
Act 4:23 When they were released, they went to their friends and reported what the chief priests and the elders had said to them.
Act 4:24 And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, "Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them,
Act 4:25 who through the mouth of our father David, your servant, said by the Holy Spirit, "'Why did the Gentiles rage, and the peoples plot in vain?
Act 4:26 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers were gathered together, against the Lord and against his Anointed'--
Act 4:27 for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
Act 4:28 to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.
Act 4:29 And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness,
Act 4:30 while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus."
Act 14:15 "Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men, of like nature with you, and we bring you good news, that you should turn from these vain things to a living God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them.


Rev 10:5 And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven
Rev 10:6 and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there would be no more delay,
We do worship the God who made all.

But the Sabbath was a sign with Israel.

Exo 31:16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'"


Let no one judge you on it. If you want to keep it, great. If not, great.

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

 

[Elder 111]

Indeed, God is Creator and the sabbath was given AS A SIGN TO ISRAEL throughout their generations to remember that.

WE are we to do.He did not ask us to remember the day of His resurrection.

 

[tall73]

WE are we to do.

I don't understand what you said here.

He did not ask us to remember the day of His resurrection.

You mean on Sunday?

Ok.


I don't consider Sunday to be any kind of substitute Sabbath. So that is fine. Rationales for Sunday observance varied in the early church literature. The church started meeting on that day and it stuck. I don't see any statement that we need to either.

 

[Elder 111]

I don't understand what you said here.


You mean on Sunday?

Ok.


I don't consider Sunday to be any kind of substitute Sabbath. So that is fine. Rationales for Sunday observance varied in the early church literature. The church started meeting on that day and it stuck. I don't see any statement that we need to either.

I meant that we are to remember God as creator. That is what the sabbath is about.
I read in the Catholic encyclopedia the Sabbath was kept and slowly the situation changed to both days being observed until Sabbath was eliminated, aided of course, with a decreed from Constantine .
The obligation of rest from work on Sunday remained somewhat indefinite for several centuries. A Council of Laodicea, held toward the end of the fourth century, was content to prescribe that on the Lord's Day the faithful were to abstain from work as far as possible. At the beginning of the sixth century St. Caesarius, as we have seen, and others showed an inclination to apply the law of the Jewish Sabbath to the observance of the Christian Sunday. The Council held at Orléans in 538 reprobated this tendency as Jewish and non-Christian. From the eight century the law began to be formulated as it exists at the present day, and the local councils forbade servile work, public buying and selling, pleading in the law courts, and the public and solemn taking of oaths. There is a large body of civil legislation on the Sunday rest side by side with the ecclesiastical. It begins with an Edict of Constantine, the first Christian emperor, who forbade judges to sit and townspeople to work on Sunday. He made an exception in favour of agriculture. The breaking of the law of Sunday rest was punished by the Anglo-Saxon legislation in England like other crimes and misdemeanours. After the Reformation, under Puritan influence, many laws were passed in England whose effect is still visible in the stringency of the English Sabbath. Still more is this the case in Scotland. There is no federal legislation in the United States on the observance of the Sunday, but nearly all the states of the Union have statutes tending to repress unnecessary labour and to restrain the liquor traffic. In other respects the legislation of the different states on this matter exhibits considerable variety. On the continent of Europe in recent years there have been several laws passed in direction of enforcing the observance of Sunday rest for the benefit of workmen.

 

[Elder 111]

One of the text given to show that Sunday was kept by Paul and others is Acts 20:7.
That text does not support such. It reflects a Sabbath meeting not a Sunday meeting.

 

[from scratch]

One of the text given to show that Sunday was kept by Paul and others is Acts 20:7.
That text does not support such. It reflects a Sabbath meeting not a Sunday meeting.

How so?

 

[from scratch]

WE are we to do.He did not ask us to remember the day of His resurrection.

Where does Jesus say to remember the sabbath?

 

[Elder 111]

Tall73
Note that God yes Jesus Himself said that the Sabbath was made for man. Not Israel but man. This will also support the fact that the Sabbath was from creation.
Mark 2
27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

 

[from scratch]

I meant that we are to remember God as creator. That is what the sabbath is about.
I read in the Catholic encyclopedia the Sabbath was kept and slowly the situation changed to both days being observed until Sabbath was eliminated, aided of course, with a decreed from Constantine .
The obligation of rest from work on Sunday remained somewhat indefinite for several centuries. A Council of Laodicea, held toward the end of the fourth century, was content to prescribe that on the Lord's Day the faithful were to abstain from work as far as possible. At the beginning of the sixth century St. Caesarius, as we have seen, and others showed an inclination to apply the law of the Jewish Sabbath to the observance of the Christian Sunday. The Council held at Orléans in 538 reprobated this tendency as Jewish and non-Christian. From the eight century the law began to be formulated as it exists at the present day, and the local councils forbade servile work, public buying and selling, pleading in the law courts, and the public and solemn taking of oaths. There is a large body of civil legislation on the Sunday rest side by side with the ecclesiastical. It begins with an Edict of Constantine, the first Christian emperor, who forbade judges to sit and townspeople to work on Sunday. He made an exception in favour of agriculture. The breaking of the law of Sunday rest was punished by the Anglo-Saxon legislation in England like other crimes and misdemeanours. After the Reformation, under Puritan influence, many laws were passed in England whose effect is still visible in the stringency of the English Sabbath. Still more is this the case in Scotland. There is no federal legislation in the United States on the observance of the Sunday, but nearly all the states of the Union have statutes tending to repress unnecessary labour and to restrain the liquor traffic. In other respects the legislation of the different states on this matter exhibits considerable variety. On the continent of Europe in recent years there have been several laws passed in direction of enforcing the observance of Sunday rest for the benefit of workmen.

So spearhead a movement for such about the sabbath. All of the things cited aboe were started by one single individual. Want to make history?

 

[11822]

Where does Jesus say to remember the sabbath?

He didn't say not to remember the sabbath either.

How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.




And if He didn't say to forget the sabbath...

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

 

[from scratch]

He didn't say not to remember the sabbath either.

How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

And if He didn't say to forget the sabbath...

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

So how does that make it a part of the NC?

What is the will of Jesus' Father? Consider I John 3:23.

 

[11822]

So how does that make it a part of the NC?

Whgat is the will of Jesus' Father? Consider I John 3:23.

Yes but Gods will is also to love God, neighbor and enemy. The 10 commandments are acts of love. Even the sabbath is an act of love, first an act of love for animals and workers whom we labor. Second an act of love for God and man. Consider Romans 14

 

[from scratch]

Yes but Gods will is also to love God, neighbor and enemy. The 10 commandments are acts of love. Even the sabbath is an act of love, first an act of love for animals and workers whom we labor. Second an act of love for God and man. Consider Romans 14

It has been pointed out in the forum that those two commandments are much broader than even the 10 Cs. While they in no way indicate an obligation to them.

 

[11822]

It has been pointed out in the forum that those two commandments are much broader than even the 10 Cs. While they in no way indicate an obligation to them.

We are obligated to love each other. The 10 commandments are not hateful laws, they are laws that when obeyed practice love. If we are commanded to love, then we are commanded to obey any law that is an act of love. The obligation to love is the same obligation for the 10 Cs. If we took the 10Cs and put them into one law that would bind them together, it would read: Thou shalt love God with all your heart, love your neighbor as yourself and love your enemy.