Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments?

[from scratch]

What is that?

I think it would be the opposite of cheap grace. An ah so what all we gotta do is offer a sacrifice and every thing will be fine- no problem. I personally see no difference. Whether it is grace or law in that regard.

 

[from scratch]

That does not negate the original reason.
If you parent told you to look before crossing the road one day and the 4 days later tell you run when crossing the road, does that mean that you are not to look before crossing?

Who said it did.? I read the original reason (if you will) found in Exodus to be a cause and not a reason for the requirement. If one says that the second isn't valid, I must ask if Moses is reliable. If Moses isn't reliable in Deuteronomy why would he be creditable in Exodus? One is trusting Moses either way. After all we wouldn't know unless someone (Moses in this case) told us or we could produce the tablets. So what is the basis?

 

[from scratch]

Christians must be convince of that otherwise they will need to keep the Sabbath. I am sure the Jews likewise were convince, so much so that they killed the same Messiah that they were looking for.

The Jews were hindered even by Jesus Who said And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. Aparently there are still those who refuse to hear the Gospel which gives liberty - Galatians 5.

 

[from scratch]

Why do you ignore the following: It has nothing to do with Israel. They were to obey God as we are to also.
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Do we dishonor God by keeping the commandments? Is it a sin? What is the problem with it?

Very interesting that one would say that Ex 20:8-11 has nothing to do with Israel. Who was present at their giving? I read that only Israel was called to the occasion.

 

[from scratch]

I agree....it is also cheap grace.

I wonder why Elder 111 doesn't understand that?

 

[from scratch]

Do you realized that it is Paul that made the statement?
Are you then saying that Paul advertised cheap law?

What difference does it make who said it? I'm not saying that Paul advertised cheap grace as a way around the law either.

 

[from scratch]

Yes we are called to keep the 10 commandments, and why not, they help to guard our lives.

Where is the Christian called to keep the 10 Cs? I need a verse desperately.

 

[Elder 111]

Who said it did.? I read the original reason (if you will) found in Exodus to be a cause and not a reason for the requirement. If one says that the second isn't valid, I must ask if Moses is reliable. If Moses isn't reliable in Deuteronomy why would he be creditable in Exodus? One is trusting Moses either way. After all we wouldn't know unless someone (Moses in this case) told us or we could produce the tablets. So what is the basis?

The bias is that you are ignoring the original reason, the true reason. The second is just to say that God had deliver them and they are, as they agreed, expect to obey Him.

 

[Elder 111]

The Jews were hindered even by Jesus Who said And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. Aparently there are still those who refuse to hear the Gospel which gives liberty - Galatians 5.

Liberty to so what? Not disregard the 10 commandments?

 

[Elder 111]

Very interesting that one would say that Ex 20:8-11 has nothing to do with Israel. Who was present at their giving? I read that only Israel was called to the occasion.

I read that it is because God is the creator. That is creator of all of us not Israel alone.

 

[Elder 111]

What difference does it make who said it? I'm not saying that Paul advertised cheap grace as a way around the law either.

What are you saying? It matters who said it. Is it not the same Paul that you look to as inspired by God?

 

[from scratch]

The bias is that you are ignoring the original reason, the true reason. The second is just to say that God had deliver them and they are, as they agreed, expect to obey Him.

No, I don't think so. The reality is I don't agree with you. I said the Ex account is related more to cause and the Deut account is related to requirement.

 

[from scratch]

Liberty to so what? Not disregard the 10 commandments?

Well it isn't to sin as insisted. Read Galatians 5 it is about the law of liberty and not the law of Moses which includes the 10 Cs. Here - For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. Gal 5:13

But ye have not so learned Christ;

21If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27Neither give place to the devil.
28Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. Eph 4:20-32.

 

[from scratch]

I read that it is because God is the creator. That is creator of all of us not Israel alone.

Nice side step. Who was addressed in Ex 20? I read only Israel. I need the verse that says everybody. It isn't found in the 4th. God isn't addressing the stranger or their behavioir outside the gates of an Israelite.

 

[from scratch]

What are you saying? It matters who said it. Is it not the same Paul that you look to as inspired by God?

I don't look to Paul for anything. I look at and read the Bible. I believe it to be inspired as recorded in II Tim 3:16. Peter says Paul's writings are Scripture in II Peter 3:16.

You can say Paul isn't inspiried if you wish. That disbelief isn't my problem. I have shown what I believe without using Paul's writing more than once. Someone said they could prove the position of the pro law camp using Paul only. I still await such.

 

[Hentenza]

You must understand what Paul meant. Faith was always a part of salvation, it was not a new introduction in the new testament. Hebrews 11 makes that clear.

Actually faith was always the only requirement for salvation. Neither following the law (which only one manage to do) or making the sacrifices atoned for sin. Good works flow naturally from saving faith.

Take a moment and consider. We as christians can not stand before a Holy God and lie and steal.

That is a false dichotomy because one can not love God or their neighbor and lie and steal. The 2 commandments of Jesus are a lot broader (and tougher) han the 10 commandments given to the Jews.

These are thing required in the 10 commandments. It is not then reasonable to say that there are no for us to observed.

The 10 commandments were given to the Jewish people not to the gentiles. The tablets of stone are not a requirement for a Christian.

The mistake has been that we have been told that it is works. How can refusing, by the grace of God, to sleep with your neighbor be of works.

The false dichotomy continues. How can you love your neighbor and sleep with his wife? Or how can you love your wife and sleep with the neighbor? Both of these we do not do because we are saved by the grace of God through faith in the Son.

 

[Hentenza]

Sure you can, you've never killed anyone for example.

Are you sure?

Actually there is much more to the commandment than just physically murdering someone.

 

[tall73]

I do not ignore the text but your interpretation of the text.
For instance James mentions 2 tenants of the ten commandments and you refer it to the "whole law" and not the 10. Does not compute.

Please state how Jesus is not addressing the whole law in Matthew 5 when He refers to oaths, eye for eye, etc.

Explain how Jesus is not looking at the whole law when He quotes the two greatest commandments. They are not from the ten but from Deuteronomy and Leviticus.

You clearly are ignoring the texts.

And as for James, he refers to more than just the 10.

Jas 2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.

you shall love your neighbor as yourself...where is that from?

Lev 19:18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.


It is from Leviticus. That is not the ten.


James continues:


Jas 2:9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

James says partiality is committing sin, and the one who does so is convicted BY THE LAW.

What part of the law is it referring to?

Deu 16:19 You shall not pervert justice. You shall not show partiality, and you shall not accept a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and subverts the cause of the righteous.

It is from Deuteronomy, not the ten.

So then when he goes on to quote from the ten, and then says anyone who breaks one point in the law breaks them all, what is he talking about?

He already used the example of partiality (which was his main point in the section anyway) as an example of law breaking!

It is the whole law he is referring to.

 

[tall73]

1Ti 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.
1Ti 5:18 For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages."


Paul again references commands not in the ten

 

[tall73]

The sabbath command clearly states that it is because God is the creator, what does that have to do with Israel?

It is a SIGN with ISRAEL that God is the creator. That is what it has to do with Israel.



Exo 31:13 "You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, 'Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'"
Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.


It was a sign with them, between God and the people of Israel, that God was the creator. That is what it has to do with Israel, answered from the text.