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Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (4)
- Thread starter Elder 111
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So I guess it isn't following the law that counts in the end.
Yea its only Gods will that we abstain from fornication, that doesn't count at all in the end. Only doers will be saved not hearers of the NC doctrine, but that doesn't count in the end either. Jesus says strait and narrow is the way and few find it and not everyone who calls Him lord lord will enter heaven, but none of this matters in the end.
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Mr 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
Does abstaining from fornication count in the end?
1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
Does abstaining from fornication count in the end?
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If one violates the law are they still a doer of the law? Nope. Then how can they be justified by the law? They can't as is noted by confession in prior posts. But we need righteousness to see God. So is that righteousness of or from the law? Nope. If it isn't from the law how can obedience to the law maintain it? Gal 3:1-3. It can't and thus there is no value in the law after conversion or the salvation event in one's life. How does this occur? Acts 16:31, Romans 10:9-10. The law has nothing to do with becoming redeemed other than showing the need.
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1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
Mr 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
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Im not sure i understand how your question relates to my post about those that do the will of God belonging to Christ and abstaining from fornication being the will of God. Could you please expound?
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Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
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I don't know how you read Romans 7:8-25, but this is what I read.
Paul was telling us that through the law do not covet he came to know what sin is, and this knowledge brought him to a realization that he was under condemnation to death for his sins.
Naturally, men are self centered, and live with their carnal mind. This carnal mind is enmity against God for it is not subject to the law of God (Romans 8:7), therefore, however he wants to do good, but evil what he did. He has no power of his own to perform what good is that he wants to do (Romans 8:18), which conforms to the demands of the law, because previously he said that the law is spiritual, holy, just and good, but he is carnal (Romans 7:12-14). This self centered attitude is the sin in him, because this is against the unselfish love of God, which is the principle of His law, the Ten Cs. This self centered heart is the carnal mind, which is enmity against God for it is not subject to the law of God.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (KJV)
This carnal mind is the law of sin in him, although from his inward man, Paul delights in the law of God, but he has no power to perform it, what he did, is what he dont want to do, which is evil. He cried: Who will safe him from the death? Thanks to Jesus Christ.
25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
The converted Paul now could serve the law of God with the mind of Christ, the Holy Spirit that shed the love of God in his heart, his mind now is made subject to the law of God.
In short, an unbeliever is ruled by his carnal mind, which is the nature of man. This mind is not subject to the law of God, is enmity against God. Although he knew the law of God, and may have the desire to obey it, but he has no power to perform what he desire, on the contrary, all what he did were only deeds of the flesh, which is evil. The only way to be saved from this slavery is through Jesus Christ. Being a new man, he could now perform what the law demands for his mind is no longer the carnal mind, but the mind of Christ, his heart is shed by the love of God through the Holy Spirit, now the law of God is being written in his heart and put in his mind, he can serve the law of God and fulfills it demands.
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The main teaching of Paul in his epistles is that he is against those who seek righteousness through obedience to the law (self righteousness), for he knew that without Christ, carnally minded people could do nothing good to satisfy the law demands, they all come under condemnation.
Only by faith and empowered by the Holy Spirit, a man could perform what the law demands, which is righteousness by faith.
Many converted Gentiles were influenced by converted Jews that Christians must still keep the ceremonial law, feast days, circumcision, etc. They still can not accept righteousness by faith. This what Paul try to rebuke, which brought so many misunderstanding and misinterpretation. Never was in his mind that the Ten Cs is a law no longer obligatory for Christian, he still believe he is under the jurisdiction of the law, which I have presented here in various post and thread. Grace is not a license to sin, faith doesn't nullify the law, and the doers of the law will be justified. There are enough evidence about this.
Taking it differently is making contradiction, and when I propose this seemingly contradiction, no one of those who are against the Ten Cs could present a defense and clarifying those text to make it comes in harmony.
Only those who believe they are under the jurisdiction of the law could read and present Paul teaching correctly.
Only by faith and empowered by the Holy Spirit, a man could perform what the law demands, which is righteousness by faith.
Many converted Gentiles were influenced by converted Jews that Christians must still keep the ceremonial law, feast days, circumcision, etc. They still can not accept righteousness by faith. This what Paul try to rebuke, which brought so many misunderstanding and misinterpretation. Never was in his mind that the Ten Cs is a law no longer obligatory for Christian, he still believe he is under the jurisdiction of the law, which I have presented here in various post and thread. Grace is not a license to sin, faith doesn't nullify the law, and the doers of the law will be justified. There are enough evidence about this.
Taking it differently is making contradiction, and when I propose this seemingly contradiction, no one of those who are against the Ten Cs could present a defense and clarifying those text to make it comes in harmony.
Only those who believe they are under the jurisdiction of the law could read and present Paul teaching correctly.
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And this was written after the distruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. So where is the ark of the covenant that was on the earth? Is it still here or did it get transported to heaven?
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What is the purpose then of being obedient to a superceded covenant that has no jurisdiction? Now I also ask what do spirituall minded people do? Do they do the works of the law in the flesh. For what? To satisfy a social demand? It avails nothing. It proves nothing. If you were to meet eiither of my neighbors in public except on Saturday - one having no use for religious connection and the other a devout SDA - you wouldn't know the difference between the two. They both act the same on the outside.
For what purpose do the law pushers push the law? Is it not for righeousness. You have indicated this is so in 2 previous posts. If one violates the law according to it they can't be righteous. Therefore obedience to the law is for righteousness and self righteousness. Otherwise one isn't righteous because of violation of the law. Jesus said one can't enter heaven with this righteousness. IOW righteousness of the law is worthless in relation to eternal life.[/quote]
Only by faith and empowered by the Holy Spirit, a man could perform what the law demands, which is righteousness by faith.[/quote]The challenge remains open for thenaming of such an individual. Paul was given as an example of this and yet he testifies as a Christian he doesn't qualify for this honor and that even with braggin rights.
Not with out proof texts can such a thing be established. That means ignoring other Scriptures to the contrary. Those teaching and influencing the Gentiles to do so were not under the authority of the Apostles as they claimed. The Apostles said they didn't have the authority to do such. Further more they were called destroyers (the meaning of subverting). They then were given no such command to keep the law of Moses. Paul openly taught that one doesn't need to submit to that law as argued in Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians and Timothy.
Propose it yet again and I shall take a crack at it.
Teehehee haw teehehee.
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What is fornication? I think it is sin. Maybe I don't think right. But I have both asked and stated that the Holy Spirit won't led one to sin and doesn't lead one to the law either. Galatians 5 is totally ignored and dismissed. Incidence isn't obedience. Love does no evil (wrong). One can't love and fornicate at the same time. If one is led of the Spirit they don't perform the lust of the flesh. Lust of the flesh is the natural state of man and has nothing to do with the law. The Christian isn't a natural state of man. That is why we have the war Paul talks about in Romans 7.
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Abstaining from fornication won't result in admission to heaven or grant eternal life.
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