Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (4)

[Children of God]

Jesus set us an example that we are to follow....He only had a full measure of God's Spirit which gave Him the ability to fight Satan and his temptations.......what God expects is that as we work at putting away sin.......and we demonstrate to him that desire....He gives a little more of His Spirit with each step we take toward developing His character.........we are to work at CHANGING our lives to live according to the pattern established by Christ..........if there is no law.........ther is no standard set for us to strive for.....we are just floundering around claiming to be "Saved" but aren't growing in Gods way of life....

 

[MamaZ]

Mr 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

 

[MamaZ]

We do not love the Lord our God by outside rules and regulations. We do not love the Lord because we are told to. In fact all who are not born again are at war with God even though they try to live according to the 10. For there is only one way to the Father and it is not the law. It is Christ Jesus our King. We love Him because He first loved us and has Set His Spirit within us. This is why we do not walk according to the rules written in stone but By His Spirit. For the Love of God has been shed abroad in our hearts by His Spirit. It is not a human attempt to love God nor our neighbor. It is a supernatural love born from the Spirit of God. Love does not act in way displeasing to the Father.

 

[Children of God]

The world has this so twisted up.........they teach that "Believing in the son" means to ONLY believe who He was and that He died..and thats it...........but believing in Him also means to Believe His message..............if I believe in someone I am going to follow Him..I am going to attempt to live my life as He did.

 

[MamaZ]

Mr 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

Paul tells us many things. Do you pray without ceasing? Do you put of the flesh and walk in the Spirit? Do you go to the elders when you are ill? Do you drink a little wine for your stomaches sake? If one walks in the Spirit they will nullify the deeds of the flesh. This has been repeatedly stated. Fornication is a selfish act. One to satisfy the desires of the flesh. Do you walk in the newness of Life as Paul states? Are you a bondslave to Christ? Or are you a bondslave to the law?

 

[Children of God]

So tell me....Jesus SHOWED you how much He loved you...He gave His life for You........How do you SHOW Him how much you love Him..........He is the God who delivered the system of God written in stone to Moses........He is the same GOD who delivers the system of God to Christians written on their hearts...........why is that so hard to see...............you show HIM your love by doing as He commands.......LOVE GOD...LOVE YOUR FELLOW MAN.....His ten commandments break down and show you just HOW TO SHOW YOUR LOVE.......this is not that hard unless you are blinded by the god of this world!!!!

 

[MamaZ]

The world has this so twisted up.........they teach that "Believing in the son" means to ONLY believe who He was and that He died..and thats it...........but believing in Him also means to Believe His message..............if I believe in someone I am going to follow Him..I am going to attempt to live my life as He did.

To believe in Christ means to believe into Christ. For one must be born again. If I walk in the Spirit I am led of the Spirit and it is Christ in me the hope of glory. Not my attempts by the flesh. For it is God who causes us to walk His Way by the power of His Spirit. Not by Might and not by will but by my Spirit says the Lord.

 

[Children of God]

Mama Z....what does walking in newness of life mean to you????

 

[Stryder06]

The ten commandments are seen in the book of Revelation. Someone may want to check into that and see what the significance is there

 

[MamaZ]

So tell me....Jesus SHOWED you how much He loved you...He gave His life for You........How do you SHOW Him how much you love Him..........He is the God who delivered the system of God written in stone to Moses........He is the same GOD who delivers the system of God to Christians written on their hearts...........why is that so hard to see...............you show HIM your love by doing as He commands.......LOVE GOD...LOVE YOUR FELLOW MAN.....His ten commandments break down and show you just HOW TO SHOW YOUR LOVE.......this is not that hard unless you are blinded by the god of this world!!!!

The 10 commandments do not break down and tell me how to love my neighbor. For I may not kill but do I truly love my neighbor just because I don't kill Him? Do I truly love my neighbor if I do not commit adultry with my neighbors husband? Not really. Love is an action word. Scripture shows us what love is. Do you dance before the Lord and lift up holy hands? I do because I rejoice in His presence.. He is my life. I am continually in His presence. For He dwells within me. It is Christ in me the hope of all Glory. What is your hope?

 

[MamaZ]

Mama Z....what does walking in newness of life mean to you????

That the old man has passed away and the new man has arisen in me. For I walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. Therefore nullifying the deeds of the flesh. I live in communion with Christ every minute of every day.

 

[Children of God]

The end time fulfillment of God’s promise to those who choose truth over the counterfeit here in Rev 12:17;

· 17Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

If the ten commandments seperate God's people in the end.......wouldn't it make sense that it seperates them BEFORE the end

 

[Children of God]

Nonsense........those are just placating words to give one feel emotionally attached to scripture........words are merely sounds...actions demonstrate that love................you can proclaim all of the sappy words sounding all spiritual....but if you not LIVING as Christ lived.....following His example....showing him love in the manner He commands..... John 14:15-24; 15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, ...if you aren't showing Jesus love....you WON'T receive anything from the Father

 

[MamaZ]

The end time fulfillment of God’s promise to those who choose truth over the counterfeit here in Rev 12:17;

· 17Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

If the ten commandments seperate God's people in the end.......wouldn't it make sense that it seperates them BEFORE the end

We live under the law of Christ and not the old law given to the Isrealites. Christ law is the law of Love. So if we hold on and obey the law of Christ by the Love that God has shed abroad in our hearts we have obeyed the commands. For love will do no harm to anyone and love wants to please the Father.

 

[Stryder06]

We live under the law of Christ and not the old law given to the Isrealites. Christ law is the law of Love. So if we hold on and obey the law of Christ by the Love that God has shed abroad in our hearts we have obeyed the commands. For love will do no harm to anyone and love wants to please the Father.

You do realize that the command to love God and our brother's was given to Israel as well.

 

[Children of God]

Its all the same law.......you can place the truth right in front of some peoples eyes but the will remain stubborn and REFUSE to love Christ the why he desires........its right there in the scripture.........we are given a choice....choose life and love Christ by keeping his commandments......or choose death by living the way of the world....those are the ONLY two options we have.......so God pleads with us..CHOOSE LIFE

in Deuteronomy 30:15-20;

· 15"See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. 16If you obey the commandments of the LORD your God that I command you today, by loving the LORD your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 17But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. 19I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, 20loving the LORD your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them."

If you claim to LOVE Jesus.and do not do as He commands.....you are worshipping idols..false gods..........the god of this world...our Father can't make it clearer....choose life!!!!

 

[from scratch]

I fully agree with this. There's heaps that Jesus instructs and commands as well as the apostles. But there is more to consider in this:

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all they heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." - Matt. 22:37-40 KJV

What I would encourage anyone to do who is familiar with this passage and any other like it is to meditate on the sum of these with special time devoted to verse 40.

Sure all the law depends on those 2 commands. And that is all it says. IOW stealing isn't love and right on down the list.

 

[from scratch]

Originally Posted by Arthur57

Originally Posted by from scratch

I think so.Isn't that what Romans 3:23 says? I read all sinned. Who does that leave out?I think that this is misunderstood. Paul here talks about his self righteousness and note the value he placed on it. Surely Paul isn't calling a righteousness that would qualify one for heaven dung. What a bout his testimony found in Romans 7:&-25? Has Paul gone mad as Festus said?

​

At least you agree on one thing: Paul talks about his self righteousness.

That is the point!

His self righteousness was a perfect obedience to the 613 mitzvah of the whole Torah, he claimed his obedience was blameless. That is the point.
​

What then do you make of Paul's testimony in Rom 7"8-25?

l

Jesus took care of this in Mat 19 with the rich young man. It proves that no one is righteous by the law. Ps 14:3, 53:3, Isa 64:6 and Romans 3:23 all show this as well. There is another reerence I'll be adding to the collection as soon as it come back to me when I'm not being distracted with something else. (Quote).

I see you still didn't get the important point what the Scripture want to tell his readers.

The Scripture told us that self righteousness of Saul is a perfect obedience to the law, blameless. This is to refute the idea that no man can keep the law of God, in fact Saul did, and so many others. But self righteousness is not a righteousness at all before God, maybe before man, yes.

Yes I understand what you're trying to do. What value dod Paul place on that righteousness obtained by the law? And what does Jesus say about righteousness obtained the same way? 20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

So, if Saul can keep the 613 laws of the Torah and claimed himself blameless, how much more if he must keep only Ten Commandments, it's peanuts, right.

Please consult Romans 7:8-25.

The point is without Christ, law keeping is self righteousness, no one can be justified for this. But with faith in Christ, law keeping is not self righteousness, it is fulfilling Christ own command: If you love me, keep my commandments.

What then is thise self abtained righteousness that you said we need to stand before God with in version 3? Doesn't it come from the law? There are only 2 kinds of righteousness that I know of. One I just mentioned and the other is an outright gift coming only from God.

Saul didn't believe in Christ, but Paul the apostle does. So, his law keeping is not self righteousness. If you insist. Teehehe oh teehehe haw ehehe teehehe.

Now, with faith in Christ, he kept the law of God, His Ten Commandments, he admit he is under the law's jurisdiction and taught the same to his readers. Why should he nullify a law that he could keep perfectly by his own strength if faith is not necessary, moreover if faith make it perfect? If he could keep the whole 613 law, then 10 Cs is peanut.

I simply don't find that in the testimony of Paul. He was living like a Gentile in Anitoch when he got on to Peter for hypocracy. That certianly wouldn't be keeping the law.

Therefore, nullify and made void the law because of faith was not in Paul mind and appears in his teaching, on the contrary he established the law, an agreement of the continuation of the jurisdiction of the Ten Cs over Christians.

I think that word establish says a lot. In no way does it infer oblagation to the law considering the total context of Paul. One can't live like a Gentile and keep the law. Paul says very clearly if one observes any of the law they are obligated to do all the law - Gal 3:10. Paul further states one can have either the law or Jesus but not both Gal5:4. John says truth and grace came by Jesus - John 1:17 and not by the law. The law doesn't provide grace.

What Jesus said in Matthew 19 was a rebuke to the young man that although he kept the whole Ten Cs, but not acceptable, for it was without love, purely self righteousness. Here, Christ didn't give the slightest indication that keeping the Ten Cs is a bad thing.

Jesus neither rebuked nor condemned the rich young man.

What all the text you quoted Ps 14:3, 53:3, Isa 64:6 and Romans 3:23, shows only the fact that nothing from our own is good enough before God, because we are carnal, carnally minded is enmity against God, and that is the nature of man, for all men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

But that isn't what you said in the previous thread and twice. You were quoted both times so it won't do any good to go back and edit.

The only thing that can make something precious before God, that He can accept, if what you did come from faith, because whatever is not of faith is sin.

And the keeping of the law isn't of faith. One can say they're keeping the law by faith all they want, it is still following rote law believing in vain that it will do what the Bible says it can't do. It doesn't get by Jesus's words I quoted above.

Thus, keeping the law of the Ten Cs which Paul did, is obedience of faith, is love that bore deeds of obedience to the law, which fulfill the holy righteous demands of the law. This, Christians should follow, and not denying it.

Please read Paul's testimony in Romans 7:8-25. He didn't keep the law. He violated it per his own testimony. It is impossible to live like a Gentile and keep the law.

All of you could think was based on a misconception and misinterpretation of the teaching of Paul.

 

[from scratch]

Originally posted by MamaZ.

Originally Posted by Arthur57

Romans 2:13 - For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

Romans 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Galatians 2:16 - knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Which one is true?

Both are true!

One is saying that self righteousness brought no justification, on the contrary only shows the sin in us, for men is carnal but the law is spiritual (Rom. 7:14). Carnal mind is enmity against God and not subject to the law of God (Rom. 8:7), so, self righteousness is based on self effort, based on the flesh; it could never fulfill the righteous demands of the law, which is the unselfish love spirit. The only way men might be justified before God, is by faith in Jesus Christ.

The other one plainly says, law doers are those who keep the law, they will be justified and not the hearers of the law, which are so many including those who reject His law, who is against His law. How the way they would be justified is not clarified here, but only a mere confirmation that the law doers will be justified. To find out how they might be justified is by looking at other place of the Scripture.

Because this will be talking OOT, about justification, I will say shortly, that initial justification in the path of Christian walk is when he came first to Christ for salvation and accept Him as his personal Savior and Redeemer. Christ imputed his righteousness towards this man, and the sins of this man was shifted to Him, this man now stand before God as he is righteous, in fact he wasn’t, he has none of righteousness whatsoever in him, he is a sinner, forgiven and justified for his faith. But life goes on, reborn as a baby in Christian faith, now he must walk as a Christian, withholding his faith to the end, and a walk in Christian life by faith is a walk after the Spirit, where the Spirit shed the love of God in his heart, and by this love he is able to fulfill the law demands through obedience “If you love me, keep My commandments” Jesus said. The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in him (Romans 8:4), the law of God successfully written in his heart and put in his mind, “I desire to do your will, my God; your law is within my heart.” Psalm 40:8.

The end of his Christian walk is in Christ, the end of his walking in the law of God is Christ, “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” Romans 10:4.

By faith he kept walking in the law of God, fulfilling it demands, and be justified, he is a doer of the law.

Initial justification by faith to a sinner (law breaker); final justification by faith to a law doer. You could have the 1st without the last, but you wouldn’t have the last without the 1st. and having only the 1st is having none at all.

And only the law doers have the right to enter the gate of heaven and eat the fruit of life, no one else.

​

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. (Quote).

This verse doesn't contradict my view as I had presented above.

Verse 19 tell us, those who are under the law are those who break the law. Who are the law breakers? Carnal men. And since our nature is carnal, we are all law breakers, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Verse 20 tell us, as a presented above and repeat here shortly, self righteousness could not be justified. Except the righteousness of faith, obedience to the law based on faith, on love to Christ.

What Paul intent to say here in v. 19,20 is as what I had presented here. He was not promoting that the law is evil (The law is holy, good and just), or promoting to annul the law (v. 31 he established the law), but was teaching his readers that SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS could not be justified.

Does this include Christans? No because their righteousness is imputed as illustrated in Roman 4:1-9. So who does the law apply to? I Tim 1:9-10 - 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

 

[11822]

To believe in Christ means to believe into Christ. For one must be born again. If I walk in the Spirit I am led of the Spirit and it is Christ in me the hope of glory. Not my attempts by the flesh. For it is God who causes us to walk His Way by the power of His Spirit. Not by Might and not by will but by my Spirit says the Lord.

If we believe in Him we do what He commands us to do. We are commanded to be doers of the word not just hearers of it.