Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

[Archaeopteryx]

No.

Well, then what is the problem?

 

[SteveB28]

He said nothing about evolution "removing God". He simply said he told his grandchildren to ignore what they were taught. You agreed with this.

That's virtually a definition of encouraging ignorance!

 

[amariselle]

Well, then what is the problem?

The problem is the idea that Christians are somehow less intelligent and are encouraging their children to be less intelligent because they teach them about Jesus. (And I know you may not have said this, but others have).

 

[amariselle]

He said nothing about evolution "removing God". He simply said he told his grandchildren to ignore what they were taught. You agreed with this.

That's virtually a definition of encouraging ignorance!

I see a man who is telling his grandchildren it is okay not to believe something your teacher tells you. Which is only right.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The problem is the idea that Christians are somehow less intelligent and are encouraging their children to be less intelligent because they teach them about Jesus. (And I know you may not have said this, but others have).

I think the implication was that they are encouraging their children to be ignorant by teaching them to not learn about evolution. Being ignorant is not the same as lacking in intelligence. We are all ignorant to some degree about certain topics. The problem, as I understand it, is that some Christians are wilfully encouraging ignorance by instructing their children not to learn, and to thereby remain ignorant about one of the most fundamental theories of biology.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I see a man who is telling his grandchildren it is okay not to believe something your teacher tells you. Which is only right.

But what if the teacher is right and the grandparent is wrong?

 

[SteveB28]

I see a man who is telling his grandchildren it is okay not to believe something your teacher tells you. Which is only right.

No, nice try.

He goes further. He doesn't just tell them it's ok to not believe the teacher. He tells them NOT to believe what they are taught.

 

[amariselle]

I think the implication was that they are encouraging their children to be ignorant by teaching them to not learn about evolution. Being ignorant is not the same as lacking in intelligence. We are all ignorant to some degree about certain topics. The problem, as I understand it, is that some Christians are wilfully encouraging ignorance by instructing their children not to learn, and to thereby remain ignorant about one of the most fundamental theories of biology.

I have never encountered such Christians. My own parents did quite the opposite. They sent us to secular schools, they themselves also grew up attending secular schools. In fact, pretty much every single Christian I know or have met did as well.

And my own parents sat us down and explained to us that our faith was our choice, that we would never be forced to go to church or believe anything, and that we must decided for ourselves.

Christians do not indoctrinate their kids the way people are always assuming they do. It's pretty hard to keep your kids isolated the way such indoctrination would require, unless you live in some compound somewhere. Christians live in the same world as everyone else.

 

[amariselle]

No, nice try.

He goes further. He doesn't just tell them it's ok to not believe the teacher. He tells them NOT to believe what they are taught.

You can read into it what you like. Maybe you could ask him to clarify before you decide that you're absolutely sure that is what he does. I mean, you don't know him anymore than I do.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I have never encountered such Christians. My own parents did quite the opposite. They sent us to secular schools, they themselves also grew up attending secular schools. In fact, pretty much every single Christian I know or have met did as well.

And my own parents sat us down and explained to us that our faith was our choice, that we would never be forced to go to church or believe anything, and that we must decided for ourselves.

Christians do not indoctrinate their kids the way people are always assuming they do. It's pretty hard to keep your kids isolated the way such indoctrination would require, unless you live in some compound somewhere. Christians live in the same world as everyone else.

That's clearly quite different to what this grandparent is doing though. He is telling his grandchild not to believe something, simply because it contravenes his beliefs. So you have encountered such Christians; you've encountered one in this very thread. He hasn't succeeded in isolating his grandchild from the wider world, but he seems to be doing something to try to keep his grandchild entrenched in Creationism. He is trying to convince his grandchild to isolate him or herself, at least on this matter.

 

[amariselle]

That's clearly quite different to what this grandparent is doing though. He is telling his grandchild not to believe something, simply because it contravenes his beliefs. So you have encountered such Christians; you've encountered one in this very thread. He hasn't succeeded in isolating his grandchild from the wider world, but he seems to be doing something to try to keep his grandchild entrenched in Creationism. He is trying to convince his grandchild to isolate him or herself, at least on this matter.

That is not how I understood it. Perhaps I'll PM him and ask him about it. (Politely of course).

 

[Robert Palase]

You have my pity.

He has my admiration.

At your advanced age, you spend your time on a religious website dedicating your time to driving a wedge between Christians and their faith.

He does what he can for the benefit of others.

I believe you will be quite horrified on judgement day. You scoff at this now but just remember we warned you. You are without excuse.

It is obviously fear that keeps you believing that's for sure.

I pray you live long enough to see the evil in what you do and seek forgiveness from our Lord and Savior.

He has been around long enough to see the damage religions have done and will continue to do, he knows that ignorance and religions go hand in hand, where there's one there's the other.

 

[Jimmy D]

When one is on a Christian website attacking Christianity, it is certainly relevant to remind them that there IS a God who WILL judge us for our sins.

I don't think anyone is attacking Christianity (with the obvious exception of Cons.. I mean Robert Palase). I think what is under attack is the fundamentalist view of the Bible, which to the majority of people (Christians included) is clearly misguided.

Would you not even consider the possibility that a different interpretation and attitude the Bible might be correct? I would think that the majority of Christians can accept that certain passages of the bible are allegorical and it's nothing new....


Even St Augustine argued for a non-literal interpretation...

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/737...christian-knows-something-about-the-earth-the

“Usually, even a non-christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience.


Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show (observe) a vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn.

The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but the people outside the household of the faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticised and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books and matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learned from experience in the light of reason.”

 

[Oafman]

Would you not even consider the possibility that a different interpretation and attitude the Bible might be correct?

I think this is the point of fundamentalism. To never be prepared to accept or even consider other points of view.

 

[joshua 1 9]

claiming that the Bible is not a compilation of human works

You must not have read my post right before you posted this. I wish that God were a Genie in a Bottle and that he would serve me and do whatever I want Him to do. That is what the Atheists seem to think God is all about. But when you leave their virtual world and join the real world God is just the opposite of that. He is the one that is running the show and we are the ones that have to follow Him and serve His will. Jesus told us to pray "THY Kingdom come, THY will be done" If an atheist were going to pray they would pray just the opposite: "MY Kingdom come MY will be done". They wish and they want a God to serve them and their will, but that is just not the way it all works.

 

[SteveB28]

You must not have read my post right before you posted this. I wish that God were a Genie in a Bottle and that he would serve me and do whatever I want Him to do. That is what the Atheists seem to think God is all about. But when you leave their virtual world and join the real world God is just the opposite of that. He is the one that is running the show and we are the ones that have to follow Him and serve His will. Jesus told us to pray "THY Kingdom come, THY will be done" If an atheist were going to pray they would pray just the opposite: "MY Kingdom come MY will be done". They wish and they want a God to serve them and their will, but that is just not the way it all works.

You have this uncanny knack of composing responses that have absolutely nothing to do with the question posed to you. It's almost artistic!

What does any of that blurb have to do with the question of the authorship of the Bible?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Evolution claims we are descended from an ancestor common to both apes and ourselves.

The Lemur from Madagascar is considered to be our common ancestor if the retrovirus evidence is to be believed. When they talk about: Of mice and men, this is what they are referring to. So God decided one day to build a man. So He began with a mouse. Not the most noble, but the least. This was the beginning, when God decided to redeem His Creation. Our beginning was over 200 million years ago in Pangaea. In a world where carnivorous began to devour one another. "The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out, or you will be consumed by each other." (Gal 5:14,15)

 

[Oafman]

The Lemur from Madagascar is considered to be our common ancestor

Common with what? What is the other species which you think diverged from the lemur at the same time that our lineage did?

 

[joshua 1 9]

What does any of that blurb have to do with the question of the authorship of the Bible?

My post has to do with knowing the God that gives us the Bible. The whole purpose of the Bible is so that we can know God.

 

[joshua 1 9]

What is the other species which you think diverged

It does not matter what I think, what matters is what evolutionary science thinks and believes. We have to go where the evidence takes us. If you want to go there or not.