Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

[amariselle]

So we both agree not to worry about the next life, albeit for different reasons. Seems fair to me.

Yes, because everyone is free to make their own choices as to what they believe.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yes, because everyone is free to make their own choices as to what they believe.

I'll drink to that...

 

[florida2]

Well, you are free to do so, but science is constantly changing and discarding what it once said was absolutely true, so I will not be putting my faith in science.

That's the whole point of science!

Making new discoveries and improving our understanding of the world is how it works and is science's greatest strength. Nothing is science is sacred, nothing is dogma - everything can be challenged if you have the evidence.

I really don't understand why people have a problem with this. If you want to go back to a medieval way of life, be my guest.

Also, nothing is ever 'absolutely true' in science. Every theory can be changed and adjusted as new discoveries are made and new evidence comes to light. Science wouldn't work if it just held onto ancient dogmatic ideas and claimed they were absolute truth despite what discoveries about reality might say - that's religion.

 

[amariselle]

That's the whole point of science!

Making new discoveries and improving our understanding of the world is how it works and is science's greatest strength. Nothing is science is sacred, nothing is dogma - everything can be challenged if you have the evidence.

I really don't understand why people have a problem with this. If you want to go back to a medieval way of life, be my guest.

Also, nothing is ever 'absolutely true' in science. Every theory can be changed and adjusted as new discoveries are made and new evidence comes to light. Science wouldn't work if it just held onto ancient dogmatic ideas and claimed they were absolute truth despite what discoveries about reality might say - that's religion.

I can respect science for what it is, but my faith is much more precious to me. I am interested in learning more about the world, what I meant was, it will not take the place of my faith. I don't actually think science and religion need to be mutually exclusive as they are often treated. Science points me even more to God as the Creator of everything that is studied.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I can respect science for what it is, but my faith is much more precious to me. I am interested in learning more about the world, what I meant was, it will not take the place of my faith. I don't actually think science and religion need to be mutually exclusive as they are often treated. Science points me even more to God as the Creator of everything that is studied.

Science is actually the study of creation.

 

[Gene2memE]

Science is actually the study of creation.

Science is the study of reality.

 

[Kylie]

No, it is an honest question we should all be willing to ask ourselves.

So why don't you worship the god that has the worst hell, so you can avoid the worst punishment?

There is so much wrong with Pascal's wager that I can't go into it here, for risk of taking the thread off topic. But you can read about the flaws in it at the following links. Kindly read them, understand why Pascal's wager is no good, and never use it again.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager
https://whistlinginthewind.org/2012/05/06/the-flaws-of-pascals-wager/
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/

Well, you are free to do so, but science is constantly changing and discarding what it once said was absolutely true, so I will not be putting my faith in science.

If you get diabetes, will you seek medical attention, or will you pray to God to control it? If you want to speak to someone that is not near you, do you pick up a telephone, or do you pray to God that the other person will gain the knowledge of what you want to say?

You put your faith in science all the time, so please don't be hypocritical. You couldn't go a day without using something that works according to science.

Also, many things are outside of the realm of science, this doesn't mean they are not real. Not all truth can be found in a science experiment.

There is no objective truth that can be discovered without using science.

If you disagree, please give me an example of one.

As I said truth is truth, regardless of a person's perceptions. Our perceptions are often very limited.

So you dismiss science on the basis of something you can't perceive?

 

[Kylie]

Perhaps you should be grateful that God has called so many to change their bad behaviors. God doesn't call many high and mighty folks, mostly just us bums. Ann Landers once observed that "the church is a hospital for sinners, not an edifice for Saints." You and other atheists clearly have no spiritual needs, thus God hasn't called you to repentance.

Prove that it was God who made them change their bad behaviours. Prove that no one who changed a bad behaviour did so because they realised the damage that behaviour was causing and realised that they needed to change it.

On the other hand, I can give you at least one example of God making sure that bad behaviour was NOT changed, that because of God, a bad behaviour remained, and that bad behaviour resulted in many deaths, including the deaths of innocents.

 

[amariselle]

So why don't you worship the god that has the worst hell, so you can avoid the worst punishment?

There is so much wrong with Pascal's wager that I can't go into it here, for risk of taking the thread off topic. But you can read about the flaws in it at the following links. Kindly read them, understand why Pascal's wager is no good, and never use it again.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager
https://whistlinginthewind.org/2012/05/06/the-flaws-of-pascals-wager/
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/

I could just as easily refer you to the Bible and say please read it and never use your arguments again. I won't though, because that would be inappropriate and disrespectful.

If you get diabetes, will you seek medical attention, or will you pray to God to control it?

Actually, I have no problem going to the doctor for illnesses, or taking medication. I have an anxiety disorder and I've been on medication for 8 years. I believe that God has blessed people with knowledge to help others in this way. One of the Gospel writers was actually a Physician and, he still trusted in the Lord. This does not in any way need to be an issue. Do I still pray, absolutely. I believe I should pray in every difficulty in life. I believe doctors are an answer to prayer.

If you want to speak to someone that is not near you, do you pick up a telephone, or do you pray to God that the other person will gain the knowledge of what you want to say?

You put your faith in science all the time, so please don't be hypocritical. You couldn't go a day without using something that works according to science.

Making use of technology in this life and relying on it for physical needs is in no way the same as putting my faith in my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ both in this life, and in the life to come. Yes, I recognize there are tools I use every day, but they are just that, tools. They are temporary, prone to break, and will one day wear out and be thrown in the trash. They are nothing I put my faith in, they are conveniences, for which I'm quite thankful, but my faith is in Jesus.

There is no objective truth that can be discovered without using science.

If you disagree, please give me an example of one.

God is outside the realm of science. Not all truth can be discovered only in the study of the physical, empirical world.

So you dismiss science on the basis of something you can't perceive?

Science is limited, I dismiss the idea that it has all of the answers.

 

[SteveB28]

All religions suffer from the Santa syndrome, which is:
If you stop reinforcing a belief then children will eventually stop believing it.

Yes indeed. And the evidence abounds.

Why do most religions insist upon indoctrinating at a very young age? ("Give me the boy and I'll give you the man")

Why is it that the vast majority of religious people around the world have adopted the religion of their parents?

Why do we find that children who grow up in secular, non-believing households usually do not take up a religious belief?

 

[TLK Valentine]

I could just as easily refer you to the Bible and say please read it and never use your arguments again. I won't though, because that would be inappropriate and disrespectful.

It would also make absolutely no sense.

 

[SteveB28]

It's not dogma, as a Christian parts of our brain function that does not function for non christians. There is evidence for that when they scan the brain. Without religion mankind would all die off. Non religious people have a reprobate brain, they have not advanced and developed a regenerated brain the way people do that learn how to function in a loving, caring religious community.

This is probably something of an understatement, but I agree with you..........you do seem to have a 'different' brain......

 

[amariselle]

It would also make absolutely no sense.

Neither do the links you provided in your response. If we never ask ourselves whether we might be wrong in life, how will we ever learn anything?

I would rather not simply believe I am right about everything. That leads only to arrogance in my opinion.

 

[SteveB28]

This is really quite a silly thought. If we stopped teaching kids anything they would cease believing. If we stopped teaching evolution the kids would stop believing in it. If we stopped teaching kids that cigarettes were bad for you kids would start smoking again.

Teaching is how we adults get our points across to our kids about right and wrong and whatever else we want kids to know. God understood this. That's why he told us to teach our kids about him from the moment we wake up to the time we go to bed. He knew how important teaching our kids is.

Religion has been among human beings for as far back as we can trace humanity. Man has always had a belief in God in some way or some fashion. It's one of those things that resides within the human soul. A need to believe that something exists beyond ourselves and our world.

And these adults pass this down to their children. Its not something that is ever going to,go,away. Even in the last days of this planet men will be worshipping the "beast".



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He told us no such thing. Some men wrote that he said that. That's all.

 

[SteveB28]

So, how do you account for those who become Christians later in life, who have had absolutely no family connection or instruction in it at all?

Not all Christians were raised in Christian homes, and not all of those who were raised in Christian homes choose to be Christians. (Even within the same family)

To suggest that Christianity only survives because children are told they should believe it is far too simplistic an assessment.

You refer to a small minority here.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Neither do the links you provided in your response. If we never ask ourselves whether we might be wrong in life, how will we ever learn anything?

You didn't click the links, did you?

I would rather not simply believe I am right about everything. That leads only to arrogance in my opinion.

So what if you're wrong and Allah is the true God? Or Zeus? Or Odin?

 

[SteveB28]

What if you're wrong? What if there is a God? Can science really disprove God's existence?

Even when it comes to the natural world we live in, we don't have all the answers. We are always learning. Back when mankind thought the earth was flat, it was still round. Truth is truth, regardless of what you believe.

And I disagree that reality is the same for everyone. People can have very different ideas about what they think is real or not.

Truth on the other hand IS the same for everyone. Truth is truth, it doesn't matter if no one believes something. If it is the truth, nothing anyone says or does can change that.

What if you're RIGHT, but you've chosen the wrong god to worship!?

 

[amariselle]

Yes indeed. And the evidence abounds.

Why do most religions insist upon indoctrinating at a very young age? ("Give me the boy and I'll give you the man")

Why is it that the vast majority of religious people around the world have adopted the religion of their parents?

Why do we find that children who grow up in secular, non-believing households usually do not take up a religious belief?

Well, if my parents were trying to indoctrinate me and my siblings, they did a pretty poor job of it. We all went to secular schools and were told we would not be forced to believe anything or go to church, but rather must decide for ourselves what we believe. I think if you ask other Christians here, you will find many similar experiences.

 

[amariselle]

You refer to a small minority here.

Not as small as you might think. And even among those who grow up in a Christian home, many turn away and do not come back until years later. If they were truly indoctrinated, they never would have left in the first place. This is why, to truly understand the Christian faith and what it means to Christians, you need to be willing to hear personal stories and experiences.

 

[amariselle]

What if you're RIGHT, but you've chosen the wrong god to worship!?

People always assume I (and all other Christians) haven't learned about any other religions and that I haven't explored what they teach. I actually have.