Do we want to 'be taken' or 'left behind'?

[zeke37]

OK, so, hmmm, there are 10 virgins, five are foolish and five are wise.

wrong parable...

my original post in this thread, shows that taken or left,
depends on which parable we are speaking about

since the taken or left part (the OP's question) is in Mat24
and NOT talking about the 10 virgins,
it is inappropriate for you to use that parable in your explanation...
a fact that I already shared in this thread.

seriously...
the parables to use for understanding this,
follow the taken or left, in the scriptures...understand?

so look to Mat24 for the explanation....not to the 10 virgins.

The wise virgins leave to go to the wedding.

The foolish are left behind and outside.

The parable explains exactly who is taken and who is not.

That is what the Word says.

But, like many who are believing that we all stay here till the VERY end, somehow this parable is turned around by misinterpreting the statement that was given before this parable.

Matthew 24: 36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

again, wrong parable..

stick with the context...Mat24...
remember the OP

the "they" that were taken in Noah's flood, was not Noah and his family
that is how it will be in the end times...

How is it going to be at the coming of the Son of Man?
"eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage"

Who was taken up in the boat while the others were left behind.
Noah and his family.

read the scriptures...the answer is right there, as I have posted twice in this thread.

the They/Them are the ones on whom judgment fell...
they were taken in the flood.
Noah was not

When a boat leaves port and there are people on the gang plank who did not get on the boat, who is left behind.

depends on which angle you see the events from...

a rescue boat comes to rescue,
and everyone that does not get into the boat will be taken to death....by the flood....

only those left behind on the boat will not perish

TWO are working, one is taken the other is left behind.

note what the WORK is...
grinding at the Mill, a watchman, and someone working in the fields...
these are metaphors for working for the Lord

Five "wise" virgins leave.
Five "foolish" virgins are left.

on the other hand, 5 of those virgins WENT/TAKEN to get oil at the last moment.
and 5 STAYED/WERE LEFT, they did not go and look for oil at the last moment.

instead, THEY STAYED and married the Groom when He came HERE

REMEMBER THAT THE 5 THAT WENT AWAY FOR OIL, MISSED THE WEDDING.
only the 5 that were LEFT married the Groom.

This is very simple until we introduce the interpretations of those who demand that we stay here for the entire GT.

and we are...
what is simple, is that the Lord already explaining who the THEY were that were taken by the flood in Noah's day...

THEY who got taken, are the ones that Judgment falls on.

those who are left, were saved.

"Immediately after the distress of those days..." what days, the ones that Lord Jesus told us about.
Does this mean that there is no GT after those days.
Absolutely not.
Nothing says that they end at that time.

Here is what is happening.
Based on the current events, the GT is already happening.

According to Apostle John there is a Great Multitude of individuals who show up in heaven, who come OUT OF the GT in Rev 7

not...they came out of tribulation....their tribulation...
they died in the flesh and are now in heaven...

simple...the dead.

the dead part of the church that is considered first fruits,
just as the 144,000 alive on earth are considered first fruits

they are not any raptured group.

13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

KJV-14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

you (or your translation) have added a "the" to "great tribulation".
these are simply the dead believers.

WE have not lived to that time and space as of yet, so until the 6th seal is opened with evidence.
There is no way that any of us have to stay here all the way through to the end of the GT in order to be rescued.

we have to stay because God said so.
Christ comes to gather us at the end...after....
so, that is good enough for me

Our Lord ALWAYS explained Himself when He gave us parables.

well, to many, those parable are not meant to be understood...
hence the parable in the first place.

and since His Children are rather split on their opinions on what the LEFT BEHIND means,
i'd say that some of us are not hearing Him

The parable of the 10 virgins is the explanation of who goes and who gets left behind, period.

lol...not.

look in Mat24...the THEY that got TAKEN in the flood of Noah'as day
same example is given to us...
Hey, Satan even has a flood that come out of his mouth in the end times.
no coincidence.

There is NOT going to be some mysterious disappearance of millions of Christians before the GT, too late.

no kidding...no disappearance period.

It will happen during the evidenced outcome of the opening of the 6th seal, which is not only information, but literal action.

since when is literal action a seal that is OPENED by CHRIST?
Aren't these the same seals as Daniel was told to close?
can you CLOSE a literal event?

info, not literal events.
the literal events are seen in the following chapters of Rev.

Lord Jesus told us about it a little.
Prophet Joel told a little about is.
Apostle John covered it completely.

What happens directly after the opening of the 6th seal...

Rev.7.

TEN virgins.
Five leave.
Five stay.

wrong parable...stay in context...
even so, the 5 that were LEFT, STAYED and MARRIED the Groom.
the 5 that went, missed the wedding.

and you just do not understand that Rev repeats itself over and over again...

we are here for it all...
the wrath of God is REALIZED later in Rev....

see Rev11 and Rev16
God's wrath follows the trib

but Satan's wrath, that is the trib. and we are here for it all.

What can we expect to happen before Lord Jesus returns for us.

Joel 3:15 The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars no longer shine.
Matthew 24:“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
Rev.6 12 I watched as He opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

yep! all this has to happen before Christ comes a gatherin'!

Matthew 24: 36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect Him.

By and in His Love,
Brother Jerry

exactly...see there are some things we can agree on!


but lets not forget the context in which the OP was asked...
so I'll repeat again....and repeat my post to Choose Wisely,
which seems strait forward enough...

stay in context...
the context is, who is working for the Lord when He comes?

Originally Posted by Choose Wisely View Post

Hi Zeke,


Noah and his family were taken away in the ark. The others were left in the flood.





hi...

the OP asked a specific question...

i presented the scripture that shows who the "they" were that got taken in the flood of Noah's day....

Noah was NOT taken, he was left....

THEY who were eating and making merry, marrying and having a wonderful old time, were taken in the flood...

I'll repeat for u...from Mat24


so the ones not taken, are still going to be working for the Lord when He comes...
which is why He would say the following...

36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

they, are the ones subject to the flood...
they were not expecting it, even though they were told it was Coming
they were taken....
Noah and his family rode out the flood and were left working for God


strait from the Bible dude!
the "they" that are taken by the flood in Noah's day,
are like the "they" that will be taken in the end times
as the subsequent parables in Mat24 easily show.

be edified!

 

[Truth Files]

"Force that square peg in that round hole

.......use a jackhammer, the sledge is not going to cut it."

>Take this square peg and pound it son .... a perfect fit

[Luke 17:35-37]

 

[Gnarwhal]

WOW...what a great start...thank you all...as we seek the truth of "What God Said"...together!
But, very important...let us present all posts from a point of total respect and courtesy for one another at all times...
This is not a thread, as I have seen many, to be used as a whipping post for those of whom we disagree with...he or she who brings antagonism, anger or hate...will not be welcome here!
We will present our opinions, as we have been welcomed to do, but if it is done in a way that breaks these 'simple rules of conduct' that person, or persons, will be asked to leave...by me, us or even CF if necessary.

2 Peter 1:2, 5-7; *Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, *And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; *And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; *And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

Also, please let us try to stay on course...to consider this thread to be centered on the question as pertaining to the 'to be taken or left behind' in these times in which we now live and the things soon to come as based on Revelation 1:1 that says in part;
*The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him (John), to shew unto his servants (us) things which must shortly come to pass;

'Hearing' the varied opinions here should bring us all, including myself of course, to re-examine what we have come to believe as truth with the understanding that it may not be the truth...and therefore really be willing at all times to receive correction if correction is due...rather than blindly sticking to what we already believe no matter what...

Coming here to 'prove ourselves right' should not be our purpose but rather to have a desire, together, to learn the truth about this question no matter what that truth may be. And, to be able to do that we must not just scan over a post in order to give our personal reply to what has been said so that we may take the immediate opportunity to prove ourselves right.

But, at the same time, you and I both know that if we can present good enough evidence from the Word of God that supports what we believe in a great way we may wish to convince others that disagree to see the truth of what we believe.

Let us consider each post to possibly be 'the one' that will open our ears, eyes and heart to a new understanding of the truth. That is what makes discussions, debates and even arguments worthwhile and 'fruitful'.

Please understand...this is just a personal observation I am making at this time, at the beginning, so we will all keep in mind the importance of love for one another and that what others have to say is as important as what we ourselves have to say in return.

These are two of my favorite verses, if not my favorites, for they clearly state what I believe to be important at any time but maybe especially so today:

1 Corinthians 16:13-14 as presented in the NKJV; *Watch, stand fast in the faith, be brave, be strong. *Let all that you do be done with love.

Enough said...I myself have digressed from the subject and object of this discussion...please forgive me.

Thank you...please continue to inspire me...peace and love to all...God Bless

Great post brother, I admire your approach to this. We should all be so humble. Bless you.

Grace and peace.

 

[zeke37]

That logic doesn't work too good when we keep reading. So of the two women that were grinding at the mill.........using this logic......the woman that was taken ends up being the woman that is left grinding at the mill. That logic won't won't work. The one taken is the one taken, not the one left grinding.

huh? perhaps I wasn't clear...i thought I was...sorry.

there are 2 women...
one is taken in the flood, (symbolic for Satan's lies)
and one is left behind and continues to work for the Lord

Further........the one taken is the one caught up. Noah IS taken, he wasn't left.

well, lets see what the scriptures says...
look carefully...
who is the THEY/THEM that judgment falls on in verse38-39?
is it Noah and his family, or is it those that were eating, marrying etc.?
who is the THEY....that is what the OP was asking.

Mat 24

38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

so, as you can hopefully now see, the ones taken, are taken by the flood.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left

so, according to this parable, who is taken and who is left?
the good guys are left...the others are taken...

1Thes 4

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

even at His Coming, there shall be some that are working for the Lord,
and some that will be swept up in Satan's flood...

the ones that are left (not in the flood) are gathered by Christ when He comes.
those that are taken in the flood, receive His wrath and are not gathered.





this may deserve it's own thread....and all i ask is you consider it...
no one is going UP at His Coming...Christ is COMING HERE

I know this may come as a shock to some,
but if you study the Greek manuscripts instead of the English translations,
a very easily seen truth emerges with Paul's writings including 1THES4

-Paul uses cloud(s) in Heb12:1, as a mass multitude...same meaning here.
the dead come with Christ, as a great mass multitude or cloud of witnesses...
He comes with CLOUDS

-Paul uses a synonym for air in 1Cor15, pneuma....same meaning here
we are all changed into the spiritual (pneuma) body when Christ comes to gather us...
air is a simple synonym for spirit...the breath of life...the blast....the body that we are all changed into...
the "mystery" change of 1Cor15.
Paul did not say atmosphere

-Paul never said "caught up", but instead he actually said, "seized"

at the last trump, Christ comes with the dead believers who are already in their spiritual bodies,
raises them back to life here again

and remember that the Lord is Coming here with the dead,
and landing here on earth. Zec14/Rev14
He gathers us or seizes us all together, the dead and the living faithful

we stay right here on planet earth

 

[cf4rc]

Peace to you...
I would never want to be left behind.
Please consider this:
I believe you are coming from the common ground of many in the churches of today...and it can be understood...'wanting to be taken away from tribulation' makes good, logical, common sense in most cases!

The Pre-tribulation rapture doctrine teaches that there is absolutely no need to see or recognize this 'man of sin', Antichrist, when he arrives because we will be gone...'raptured'...before he ever comes to do his thing and before any believed to be 7 year period of tribulation (and it is not 7 years) even begins.

I believe, the Pre-tribulation Doctrine has been taught as truth by many church leaders as it is what they prefer to teach because it sounds so good to themselves and to all who will listen and believe...I would say, most often out of FEAR of still being here. These leaders are finding ways to convince themselves this doctrine is true and their congregations are being told what they themselves want to hear...

2 Timothy 4:3-4; *For the time will come when they (many of those in the church) will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts (desires) shall they heap to themselves (false) teachers, (they) having itching (G2833;desirous of hearing something pleasant) ears; *And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables (false traditions of man).

Know this: pre-tribulation rapture sounds good to me also...I would jump on board with great zeal if it were true...for we would be with our Lord that much sooner...and that would please me greatly! But, God tells and shows us what we must believe...we do not tell Him what we choose to believe...

Considering God is punishing unbelievers at this time, I would not want to be a part of that.
Maybe you should give more thought to what you just said if you will; "God is punishing unbelievers at this time". That is the point...we are not meant to suffer as the unbelievers do at this time.
Please refer back to Genesis, because it is the only place I know of that there is an example such as this spoken in the Word.
See where the Israelites and the land of Goshen that they were given to live in by Pharaoh did not suffer from the ten plagues which ravaged all others and the rest of Egypt.
They were there, as I believe we will be here during the Great tribulation to come, and they did not suffer God's wrath just as we are not meant to suffer either...we must Trust God to do this for us as was done for them...
DO NOT FEAR! Fear is a lack of faith in the promises of God for His people.

Those that are martyred at this time will only be a few of those 'chosen' by God for they are strong enough to have the Holy Spirit speak for them and through them and not allow the fear of death to overcome them to the point of denying Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

This also brings up that age old question that I never can seem to get an answer from post-tribbers from: When Jesus issues warnings that we need to be ready and not found drunken or surfeiting when He comes as a thief,

why is this?
So we will be ready by having come to our salvation through Him before He comes 'as a thief' at a time many do not expect. And, yet be wise enough to stay sober and 'watch', even 'look for', the Antichrist who comes first as the 'real thief', at what to most is also at an unexpected time, so that we do not suffer condemnation as those around us who can not see.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; *Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him (not what it sounds like; we will discuss what this means at a future time), *That ye be not soon shaken in mind (confused), or be troubled (by what is not from us), neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter (by no means) as (if) from us, as that (as though) the day of Christ is at hand. *Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come] except there come a falling away first (from God and the truth), and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

What does it matter?
All unbelievers will have...Antichrist, the man of sin...come upon them as a thief in the night as will all pre-tribulation rapture doctrine believers, who may well have found salvation through Christ. And, both will not see who he is...will possibly follow after, or worship (to love, adore, revere, obey), him and therefore will lose there soul in the lake of fire.

Revelation 14:9-11; *And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man (any and all people; saved and unsaved) worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead (in the mind), or in his hand, *The same (as above) shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: *And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever (again, saved and unsaved) receiveth the mark of his name.

What if we are found surfeiting, what is the consequence for a born again believer (which is who He was addressing when He said this)?? If you are already saved and Jesus comes back and finds you that way, what is the consequence?[/quote]
The consequence is continued salvation in Christ but in a new spiritual body as those that are alive and remain on earth 'change' to be as Him and the multitudes when they arrive at His only second coming to stay here on earth for at least the next thousand years.

Unless, as has been shown here, and I believe should be clear now, that even those of us who fully qualify as born again saved believers, but are deceived, will be condemned to perish if we take the mark of the beast, even by mistake through not recognizing him because of what we believe.

Just some food for contemplation and prayer...for now...

peace and love...God Bless

 

[Truth Files]

Good post above

Jesus will come as a thief with no warning and at an undisclosed time to immortalize His church of both those asleep and those living at the time .... at time that no one can know .... He has said "you must be ready" for it

And yet He also has also projected a time that earth dwellers will be able to know by the counting down of events described in Revelation's unfolding .... His appearance on the earth at the end of His time of trial and judgment .... and these will certainly know by the wiles of the tribulation that they are in it

These two "times" [datings] obviously cannot be the same .... the time one cannot know ..... and the time that one will be able to know and anticipate

The related prophetic scriptures taken together give a time lapse of 2550 days between

 

[Super Kal]

the thing is, He will only come to those who are in darkness... not to those who are in the light. Pre-tribulation always uses 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2 to try and prove their pet theory and take those verses out of context... they never tell their congregation vv.3-7... to us, Christ will not come like a thief, for we are in the light, not in darkness. we watch the seasons, and by the seasons, we will know when the time is near... we wont know the exact timing, but we will know it is near.

to add, only one time does it say "time" in regards to His retuen... in the parable of Mark 13:32-37, and in the parable , He refers to the time as the day or hour... in every other instance, Jesus ALWAYS uses the words "day"and "hour"... never the time. He NEVER said we couldn't know the week, or the month, or the year...

He NEVER once said we couldn't know the general time
He DID say though we would not know the specific time

Hello everyone...peace to you...
Let's have a group prayer and see what we can see...

From the view of many in the church today...we want to "be taken", as in the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine.

I believe...we should want to be 'left behind' and that pre-tribulation rapture is a very dangerous and possibly even deadly doctrine.

What do you believe to be true...and why?

This is a very important subject to be discussed in the time in which we now live. The decision we make can absolutely affect our salvation!

It is time for some fun...on a serious subject...

peace and love...God Bless You...RC

I completely agree

i intend on being left behind... the only ones that are taken are those taken to destruction. all you pre-tribbers are free to be taken whenever you want... i will not be moved from this earth until "after the tribulation of those days", as Jesus Christ stated in Matthew and Mark

 

[Choose Wisely]

this may deserve it's own thread....and all i ask is you consider it...
no one is going UP at His Coming...Christ is COMING HERE

I know this may come as a shock to some,
but if you study the Greek manuscripts instead of the English translations,
a very easily seen truth emerges with Paul's writings including 1THES4

So I think you are saying there is no rapture.

If that's what you are saying, what do you do with Rev 14:14-20? John wrote that.

I had you down for a post tribber.

 

[Truth Files]

"Christ will not come like a thief"

>Does He lie about this?

>I have scripture that states with no doubt that He has said it ... here is just one [Revelation 16:15]

"He NEVER once said we couldn't know the general time

>He said this according to scripture [Acts 1:7]

>You tell the exact opposites in you post above

>Why is this?

>I am always suspicious of one who refutes plain scripture

>Curious ..... who are you following ..... who has taught you these things?

 

[realtruth101]

RealTruth- you are mistaking corporate judgment with indivual judgment. Individuals suffer in the Bible all thd time. So all your individual examples (99% of your post) are inapplicable. And your example of Adam and Eve is completely inapplicable as to BELIEVERS. The sin nature and curses of Genesis are passed on to humanity as unbelievers. Christ defeated all of this by becoming a curse for us. So a believer has no curse or judgment on them. This is the main point of the entire Bible by the way.

So again, my challenge stands. There are no judgments sent to the Earth from God that His believers had to suffer through.

No your challenge doesn't stand, you've simply just changed the rules from your first post, and since you asked for only one incident and claimed 99% of my list was unapplicable as to believers,that still leaves me with one percent of a correct answer, and you were only looking for one incident. I'm not sure why Adam and Eve aren't considered believers? thats just kinda funny!, you said "The sin nature and curses of genesis are passed on to humanity as UNBELIEVERS"? can you please explain what that means? I have no idea what you mean by that?

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

you defy post -tribbers to name one judgement sent from God that believers had to suffer through (YOU ONLY WANT ONE!) ha ha ha how about we start at the very beginning Adam sinned and now we all suffer the consequences of Gods judgement against him, How about Moses and Aaron and Joshua and Caleb they had to suffer right along with the Israelites when God sent them out into the desert for forty years until all those who complained against God had died. Then there is Achan 36 men died in judgement for what Achan did. how about King David, His adultress relationship and murder of Uriah, Nathan tells David because of these things you have done, the child who is born to you will surly die. So even an innocent baby can suffer Gods judgement in punishment to another. The bible is full of stories where believers have to suffer through His judgement on others, in fact the story of Job required Job to suffer unbelievable suffering, through no fault of his own, he was blameless and upright, he feared God and shunned evil. So your idea or notion that somehow forbids God for allowing suffering or tribulations against believers is so unfounded and unbiblical I'm at a loss for words. But I hear if you click your heels togather three times and say "there will be no tribulation for those who believe" then much of scripture disappears from the printed page and abbra ca dabbra your sucked off the planet......P.S. this only works for fat Worldly Americans, It has shown not to work in other countries where tribulation has already started such as Africa, China and others best of luck.....read more listen less!

Blessed be the Lord, for He has poured out His Spirit upon this post.

 

[Truth Files]

"But I hear if you click your heels togather three times and say "there will be no tribulation for those who believe" then much of scripture disappears from the printed page and abbra ca dabbra your sucked off the planet......P.S. this only works for fat Worldly Americans, It has shown not to work in other countries where tribulation has already started such as Africa, China and others best of luck.....read more listen less!"

>That is an interesting tale

>Kind of like the story of the post-trib fence sitters who will be sucked into the tribulation period of the Lord's wrath

>Has the Lord already decided which is true?

>He has

>Guess which one?

 

[cf4rc]

Good post above

Jesus will come as a thief with no warning and at an undisclosed time to immortalize His church of both those asleep and those living at the time .... at time that no one can know .... He has said "you must be ready" for it

And yet He also has also projected a time that earth dwellers will be able to know by the counting down of events described in Revelation's unfolding .... His appearance on the earth at the end of His time of trial and judgment .... and these will certainly know by the wiles of the tribulation that they are in

These two "times" [datings] obviously cannot be the same .... the time one cannot know ..... and the time that one will be able to know and
anticipate

The related prophetic scriptures taken together give a time lapse of 2550 days between

Peace to you...
Interesting, but there will absolutely be the signs of the times to warn us. I also will add this because so many misunderstand and replace "and" in this passage with "or"...mostly by their own volition because it is changed in only one translation that I have found...
This is from the Greek lexicon...

MATTHEW 24:36; But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
1. G2532;and (in addition to), also (in addition to), even (and even introduces an extreme case; it would introduce the ‘hour’ to the utmost degree; as having the highest importance), indeed (in truth)

But of that day in addition to hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Note: We can not know both the day and the hour but we can know the day.

If said as or;
But of that day or hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
1. G3383; neither (not either), nor, or

But of that day neither hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Note: We can know neither the day or the hour if this was the correct translation.

As can be easily seen, the difference of the meaning of the two words in turn make a great difference in the understanding of what is being said.

WE CAN KNOW THE DAY as supported by:

1 Thessalonians 5:2, 4; *For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. *But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

but just not "and" the hour...that is why after this verse Matthew 24 continues to stress the hour only as what we can absolutely not learn or know; such as in these next two verses:


24:44; Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
and
24:50; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh (G4328; to expect; to look for) not (the absolute negative) for [him], and in an hour that he is not (G3756; no, not - A primary word, the absolute negative) aware of (G1097; to learn, to know),

Again, some very interesting bits of knowledge to contemplate and put away for future use.

peace and love to all...God Bless

 

[Truth Files]

I don't think anyone can know "the day" .... if so then the Lord contradicts himself

The reason that the believer will not be overtaken is not because one can know the day .... but because believers are saved and can depend upon the Lord to keep them from His coming judgment .... these know that He has not appointed them to His wrath

He has not revealed the dating and there will be no warning or signs before

.... and it could happen before this day is over

The believer must be ready at all times .... not knowing when, but assured that He will keep His promise

 

[cf4rc]

I don't think anyone can know "the day" .... if so then the Lord contradicts himself

The reason that the believer will not be overtaken is not because one can know the day .... but because believers are saved and can depend upon the Lord to keep them from His coming judgment .... these know that He has not appointed them to His wrath

He has not revealed the dating and there will be no warning or signs before

.... and it could happen before this day is over

The believer must be ready at all times .... not knowing when, but assured that He will keep His promise

Peace to you...
Exactly what perspective are you speaking from at this time? Is it a 'rapture doctrine' or from your general study of the bible? I'm a little mixed up......me confused...nah, that can't be possible...hahahaha...

peace and love from 'the dummy'...God Bless

 

[Bible2]

cf4rc said:

WE CAN KNOW THE DAY

Amen.

For regarding not knowing the day, note that Matthew 24:36,42,44 is referring to the second coming of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:37b,42b,44b), which Jesus had just finished saying won't happen until after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-30). So in Matthew 24:42,44, Jesus could mean that only if believers don't watch (stay awake, spiritually), his second coming will happen when they aren't expecting it (cf. Revelation 3:3b). In the immediate context of Matthew 24:42,44, Jesus suggests that it's possible for believers to know when his second coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a, cf. 1 Thessalonians 5:4).

Also, Jesus says "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), he doesn't say "of that day and hour no man will know". So he could have been referring only to the time in which Matthew 24:36 was spoken, not to the future.

Compare the following two verses:

"of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36).
"the things of God knoweth no man" (1 Corinthians 2:11).

If we mistakenly claim that the first verse means that no man will ever know the date of Jesus' second coming until it happens, then we would have to also say that no man, not even believers, currently know any of the things of God. But who would say that?

For the Holy Spirit can reveal to believers the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:12-13); he can guide believers into all truth and show them what will happen in the future (John 16:13), including the date of Jesus' second coming before it happens. For, again, Jesus suggests that it's possible for believers to know when his second coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a, cf. 1 Thessalonians 5:4). Also, what Amos 3:7 says includes the second coming; surely God the Father won't send Jesus back without having first revealed the secret of the date of Jesus' second coming. It could occur on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, cf. Revelation 16:15).

 

[Bible2]

Truth Files said:

. . . believers are saved and can depend upon the Lord to keep them from His coming judgment .... these know that He has not appointed them to His wrath

Amen.

God hasn't appointed any saved person to his wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9, John 3:36). And note that nothing requires that the entire tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18 is God's wrath, or that any part of the tribulation that is God's wrath will be directed against any of the saved people who will be alive on the earth during the tribulation (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4). Most of the tribulation could be the wrath of Satan working through evil men and natural forces to bring disaster upon the earth, just like when Satan was allowed to work through evil men and natural forces to bring disaster upon righteous Job (Job 1:12-20).

The first five seals of the tribulation (Revelation 6:1-11) won't be God's wrath or judgment, for after the first four seals are over the martyrs of the fifth seal ask God when he's going to bring his judgment against the world (Revelation 6:10); and the killing of even more martyrs, which the fifth seal foretells will happen sometime after the fifth seal (Revelation 6:11b), won't be God's wrath against those martyrs. So Jesus unsealing the seals of the tribulation (Revelation 6) doesn't mean that every event that's unsealed will be the wrath of God; it simply means that every event that's unsealed will be permitted by God to happen at that time.

The sixth seal of the tribulation (Revelation 6:12-14) will happen sometime before the day of the Lord (Joel 2:31, cf. Revelation 6:12), whereas the day of the Lord/day of wrath (Zephaniah 1:14-15) won't begin until the second coming of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:7-8, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't occur until Revelation 19 (see Revelation 19:15), after the entire tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18 is over (Matthew 24:29-31).

So the people quoted at the sixth seal (Revelation 6:17), during only the first stage of the tribulation, could be just as mistaken as Job was when Job said that what was happening to him was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11). Just as what was happening to Job was actually Satan's wrath against him, not God's wrath, so the sixth seal could actually be Satan's wrath, not God's wrath. Just as the writer of the book of Job didn't go out of his way to correct Job's mistaken statement in Job 19:11, and just as the apostles John and Matthew didn't go out of their ways to correct the mistaken statements of the people they quoted in John 7:12b and Matthew 27:63a, so the apostle John could have not gone out of his way to correct the statement of the people he quotes in Revelation 6:17.

Revelation 6:17 is what terrified people on earth will say at the cataclysmic event of only the sixth seal of the tribulation (Revelation 6:12-14), which will occur before the seventh seal of the tribulation (Revelation 8:1). Out of the seventh seal of the tribulation will come the seven trumpets of the tribulation (Revelation 8:1-2).

Note that none of the events of the first six trumpets from Revelation 8 up to the end of Revelation 9 are referred to by John as being God's wrath. Also, note that it doesn't say that any of those events will be directed only at the unsaved; all those events could affect mankind in general, both the saved and the unsaved.

The events of the fifth trumpet will be the work of a swarm of weird locust-like beings from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:2-10) led by a fallen angel from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:11). And the events of the sixth trumpet will be the work of a huge army of weird horse-like beings led by four fallen angels previously bound in the river Euphrates (Revelation 9:14-19).

So even though good angels of God will sound the six trumpets of Revelation chapters 8-9, this could simply be announcing God's allowing the wrath of Satan to destroy one-third of different things (Revelation 8:7-12, Revelation 9:15,18), just as Satan will subsequently, mid-tribulation, be allowed by God to cause one-third of the angels to be cast down to the earth for good (Revelation 12:4,9).

God allows saved people to be affected by the wrath of Satan (Revelation 12:17, Revelation 2:10), knowing that even if they're killed by Satan, this is no loss for them, but even gain (Philippians 1:21,23).

The events of the first six trumpets from Revelation 8 up to the end of Revelation 9 will all happen before the 3.5-year worldwide Satanic reign of the Antichrist (the beast) begins (Revelation 13:4-18). And the events of Revelation chapters 8-9 could be used by Satan to help prepare the world to welcome that reign. For what Satan could do is first take great pleasure in causing the destruction in each event, but then he could claim that the destruction isn't from him, but from YHWH, and that YHWH is a cruel tyrant god who hates mankind and only wants to make mankind suffer, while he (Satan, as "Lucifer") only wants the best for mankind. In this way, Satan could deceive the world into turning away from YHWH and instead worshipping him (the dragon) and the Antichrist (the beast) (Revelation 13:4-18). The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

Note that with regard to the church, the worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the beast) (Revelation 13:7) won't be God's wrath, but Satan's wrath (Revelation 12:17).

After the 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist is declared legally over at the sounding of the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the seven plagues of the seven vials of God's wrath will come out of the heavenly temple opening of the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5-16:1). The seven vials of God's wrath will then be poured out upon the followers of the Antichrist as God's judgment for their receiving the Antichrist's mark and worshipping his image (Revelation 16:2), and for their killing of people in the church (Revelation 16:6-7) during the prior 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 14:12-13).

During the Antichrist's worldwide reign, people in the church will be hated and killed in every nation on the earth just for refusing to renounce the name of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9-13). They'll be beheaded for refusing to renounce the witness of Jesus Christ (Revelation 20:4), for refusing to accept the antichrist lies that Jesus himself isn't the Christ (1 John 2:22) and that Christ himself isn't in the flesh (1 John 4:3). People in the church will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the sound doctrine of the Bible (Revelation 20:4, 2 Timothy 4:2-4), for refusing to depart from the Biblical faith and give heed instead to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (1 Timothy 4:1-2). People in the church will be beheaded for refusing to worship the Antichrist and his image, and for refusing to receive his mark on their forehead or right hand (Revelation 20:4, Revelation 13:4-18).

And all of this, of course, will be the wrath of Satan against the church (Revelation 12:17), and not the wrath of God against the church. For the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

Even when God's wrath does come subsequently in the seven vials (Revelation 16), because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), none of the vials of God's wrath will be directed at any of those in the church who will still be alive on the earth during that time, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they'll go into protective chambers which they'll have built for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had built for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:7).

Only after the seventh vial is completed (Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2) will Jesus Christ return and bring the second-coming day of wrath/day of the Lord (Zephaniah 1:14-15, 1 Corinthians 1:7-8, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10) upon the unsaved world (Revelation 19:15-21). And before that wrath begins, again because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), the church will be caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:17, 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27) into the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus will judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:4-5, cf. Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30) and then marry the obedient portion of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, cf. Matthew 25:1-12) in the clouds, before the obedient portion of the church mounts white horses and comes back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he brings the second-coming wrath of God upon the unsaved world (Revelation 19:15-21).

After that, Jesus and the obedient portion of the just-resurrected church (including those in the church who had been beheaded by the Antichrist) will be on the earth ruling the surviving unsaved nations with a rod of iron for 1,000 years (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6, Psalms 2). During that time, Jesus will have to employ his wrath against the surviving unsaved nations in order to bring them into forced submission to him (Zechariah 14:16-19, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 2).

After the 1,000 years are over, the Gog/Magog rebellion will occur (Revelation 20:7-9), but it will be defeated by God's wrath against it (Ezekiel 38:19-23). After the defeat of the Gog/Magog rebellion, the earth will remain in existence for at least seven more years (Ezekiel 39:9). After those at least seven more years are over, the white throne judgment will occur, in which all the unsaved of all times will be resurrected and judged and cast into God's eternal wrath of the lake of fire and brimstone (Revelation 20:11-15, Revelation 14:10-11, Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

 

[B1inHim]

The parables in Matthew 24 are clearly explained by the parable of the 10 virgins.

The ones in the rescue ARK were taken out of harms way and the ones who were left behind suffered death.

This is the literal not the metaphorical.

Your metaphor is based on the pre-conceived belief that we all have to remain here till the entire end of the GT.

There is absolutely NO scriptural foundation to be able to prove that the Great Multitude in Rev 7 are all dead.

Then again, there is no way to prove that they got their by "harpazo" either, but they got there somehow and I, personally, choose to believe that during the opening of the 6th seal we are rescued from the wrath of God out of the GT.

in regards to the OP...The ten virgins is the answer.

I do not believe that making some long and drawn out exegesis of this is going to make any difference to those of y'all who believe in the Post or Pre-teaching.

I am not here to change any ones mind.

Just showing that there is a literal and a metaphorical definition of the scripture.

I show the literal definition. This does not take a formula of scriptures to understand what I show.
Just the Word opened wide for all to see.

No scriptural journey, just a step by step narrow path.

y'all have a lot to offer when it comes to salvation, I hope that during these last days, we are all used to lift our Lord up that others would be drawn to Him.

Tell you what, when this is all over and dung with I would like to meet each of you later.

I do not believe that hardly any of us who are here now, will be around after the opening of the 6th seal.

Yeah we might die, but then, who cares.

Love,
Brother Jerry
YouTube - EXCUSIVE! #1Rapture

 

[Manasseh_]

He has not revealed the dating and there will be no warning or signs before

Amo 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
This is the very heart of the question that Christ's apostles asked him when he gave his Olivet Prophecy, Matt 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13

warning signs................the final events that will lead to the return of Christ.............then he gave a detailed description of the events that would lead up to his second coming...................

He gave even more details and information to John............Compare Matt 24 with Revelation 6............they are one in the same, to John Christ showed these events symbolically as seals that would be opened.

.... and it could happen before this day is over

No it couldn't......................if that were the case then all prophecy foretelling of the final events would be useless and we could not rely on prophecy in scripture to give us warning.........

This eminent return doctrine does nothing more than make Christ himself a false prophet................

Eminent return................he could come at any time
Christ................................I will return when these events come to pass that I personally have foretold...........not to mention all of God's prophets who were inspired to foretell the same.

 

[B1inHim]

Amo 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
This is the very heart of the question that Christ's apostles asked him when he gave his Olivet Prophecy, Matt 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13

warning signs................the final events that will lead to the return of Christ.............then he gave a detailed description of the events that would lead up to his second coming...................

He gave even more details and information to John............Compare Matt 24 with Revelation 6............they are one in the same, to John Christ showed these events symbolically as seals that would be opened.





No it couldn't......................if that were the case then all prophecy foretelling of the final events would be useless and we could not rely on prophecy in scripture to give us warning.........

This eminent return doctrine does nothing more than make Christ himself a false prophet................

Eminent return................he could come at any time
Christ................................I will return when these events come to pass that I personally have foretold...........not to mention all of God's prophets who were inspired to foretell the same.

Good points