Do we need to be baptized in order to be saved ?

[Guojing]

Baptism is necessary for those who have heard the Gospel and believe. Do not reject it. That doesn't mean God is hindered in any way from saving others.

So if a person rejects water baptism, can God still save him?

If your answer is yes, then it cannot be necessary. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

 

[The Liturgist]

So if a person rejects water baptism, can God still save him?

The question is not whether God can save, since God is omnipotent, but whether or not God might be willing save.

And the answer is that we don’t know.

We do know however that God has expressed a willingness to save those who are baptized, and that baptism remits sin (Acts 2:36) thus cleansing us from inherited sin and our own sins if baptized as an adult, and allowing us to be grafted onto the Body of Christ.

My considered opinion therefore is that it is not only inadvisable but dangerous to refuse baptism, but I pray for the salvation of everyone. However, everyone who has heard the Gospel should, I believe, hasten to the font and be received into the Church, being baptized, chrismated and thenceforth receiving Holy Communion as often as possible for them.

I particularly like the Slavonic practice of auricular confession before receiving the Eucharist.

 

[th1bill]

Please tell me, how in relative or not. I was under the impression that Christ said "I tell you that you will be with me in paradise." It seemed to be pretty cut and dried under Jesus' commandment in that moment. It seemed that the their was assured his place in heaven next to Christ.

You're not making sense to me.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

My considered opinion therefore is that it is not only inadvisable but dangerous to refuse baptism,

Baptism is a Divine institution like the Lord's Supper. It is an express and direct command of Christ directing that it be observed for all time by His Church. From the Great Commission text, baptism within Christ's church is not optional just as teaching or preaching is not optional. The name of God in the recipient's baptism gives baptism it's distinctiveness apart from all other rituals of Scripture. Furthermore the only time and place where the Triune formula is commanded to be used by Jesus' church.... is in baptism.

Additionally, in the Book of Acts, the giving of the HS and Baptism are so closely linked together, it is hard to tell when one ends and other begins. The gift of the HS may come immediately before baptism (Cornelius, Acts 10) immediately after baptism (Acts 8 & 19) or during (Acts 2, 9:17).

Out right rejection of Baptism is a rejection of Jesus' command and a rejection of the gift of the HS.

As Augustine correctly said...."It is not the absence of baptism that damns, the despisal of baptism damns.

 

[Guojing]

The question is not whether God can save, since God is omnipotent, but whether or not God might be willing save.

And the answer is that we don’t know.

We do know however that God has expressed a willingness to save those who are baptized, and that baptism remits sin (Acts 2:36) thus cleansing us from inherited sin and our own sins if baptized as an adult, and allowing us to be grafted onto the Body of Christ.

My considered opinion therefore is that it is not only inadvisable but dangerous to refuse baptism, but I pray for the salvation of everyone. However, everyone who has heard the Gospel should, I believe, hasten to the font and be received into the Church, being baptized, chrismated and thenceforth receiving Holy Communion as often as possible for them.

I particularly like the Slavonic practice of auricular confession before receiving the Eucharist.

God meant what he said in Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38.

If he says one needs to do X and Y to be saved, if you fail to do either X or Y, you will not be saved.

That is what and means

 

[The Liturgist]

Baptism is a Divine institution like the Lord's Supper. It is an express and direct command of Christ directing that it be observed for all time by His Church. From the Great Commission text, baptism within Christ's church is not optional just as teaching or preaching is not optional. The name of God in the recipient's baptism gives baptism it's distinctiveness apart from all other rituals of Scripture. Furthermore the only time and place where the Triune formula is commanded to be used by Jesus' church.... is in baptism.

Additionally, in the Book of Acts, the giving of the HS and Baptism are so closely linked together, it is hard to tell when one ends and other begins. The gift of the HS may come immediately before baptism (Cornelius, Acts 10) immediately after baptism (Acts 8 & 19) or during (Acts 2, 9:17).

Out right rejection of Baptism is a rejection of Jesus' command and a rejection of the gift of the HS.

As Augustine correctly said...."It is not the absence of baptism that damns, the despise of baptism damns.

This is entirely correct. Also, I think this underscores the importance of permitting infants and children to be baptized, a subject near and dear to your heart as well as mine, so they can be united to the Body of Christ, for He, the incarnate Word and only begotten Son, did command that the little children be permitted to come to Him.

I can think of no reason for Christians to not allow their infants and children to be united with Christ our True God, who is the image of God the Father, and to receive the seal of God the Holy Spirit through Chrismation or Confirmation, and to partake of the very Body and Blood given by Christ for the remission of sins and for life everlasting, which in traditional churches such as yours and mine is possible only for those who have been baptized.*

* There has been a push among some of the most liberal parishes in the Episcopal Church to allow non-baptized people to receive the Eucharist, but this, fortunately, has been extremely controversial, with i think a solid majority of Episcopalian parishes still requiring baptism.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

did command that the little children be permitted to come to Him.

I really need to do some study on the KofG passages and children. Jesus says in the 5 Kingdom passages children and infants have the ability to RECIEVE the Kingdom of God. Before the Day of Pentecost, children were received into the at least by the blessings of Jesus. In Mt. 21, children received into the Kingdom by singing praises taught by their parents. Post Pentecost children are brought into the Kingdom by baptism.

Credobaptists butcher the Kingdom texts as if all children are in the kingdom by virtue of their age. A sort of qualified universalism. The five kingdom text clearly state children have the ability to receive the Kingdom through the means of Grace. Credobaptists believe they have the kingdom until the Age of Accountability without the means of Grace.....therefore before the Age of Accountibility they are "Safe but not Saved." A meat cleaver special.

 

[rturner76]

You're not making sense to me.

Ok, I didn't communicate that post quite right. I was trying (not very well) to say that the thief on the cross next to Christ was exempted from water baptism by the word of Christ (ie God) Being water baptized alone I don't believe save one. Water baptism is the washing away of one's sins. Gad can also wash away one's sins by his commandment and will. That is why the thief was saved without it. However, I believe an everyday person should be water baptized, not to become saved, that is by God's grace but it is an outward expression of one's salvation to the local Christian community. Does that make more sense? I apologize for the kind of jumbled-up post I made. I did the same even worse than that in another thread. I think I was half asleep in the dark and I never really learned touch typing so that night I was just hitting the wrong buttons and I neglected to reread what I was about to post. So that's my fault. Does this clear up what I was trying to say?

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Gad can also wash away one's sins by his commandment and will.

Chapter and verse please.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

but it is an outward expression of one's salvation to the local Christian community.

Chapter and verse please.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Water baptism is the washing away of one's sins.

This is correct. Baptism is the remedy for original sin. Who believes this? Lutherans, Calvinists, Anglicans, Methodists, the RCC and the Orthodox. Who don't believe this.....Baptists, American Evangelicals, Charismatics, Pentecostals and SDA. And the debate continues.

 

[The Liturgist]

Lutherans, Calvinists, Anglicans, Methodists, the RCC and the Orthodox.

Indeed, and Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, Calvinists and Oriental Orthodox are the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 7th largest denominational groupings, with approximately 1 billion, 250 million, 140 million, 100 million, 80 million, and 60 million members.

The Methodist family (including the UMC, GMC, Nazarene, Free Methodist, British Methodist, and historically Methodist parishes of the United Church of Canada and the Uniting Church in Australia, and the historically black Methodist churches such as the African Methodist Episcopal and AME Zion churches, and also various Wesleyan and Wesleyan Holiness churches) are not far behind, but I hesitate to provide an exact size, as the data is unreliable due to the alienated former membership of the UMC being in flux, with many having become Orthodox or members of other traditional liturgical churches, including more traditional Methodist churches, including our friend @jas3 who became Eastern Orthodox, and several of my relatives who are still discerning where to go.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Indeed, and Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, Calvinists and Oriental Orthodox are the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 7th largest denominational groupings, with approximately 1 billion, 250 million, 140 million, 100 million, 80 million, and 60 million members.

The Methodist family (including the UMC, GMC, Nazarene, Free Methodist, British Methodist, and historically Methodist parishes of the United Church of Canada and the Uniting Church in Australia, and the historically black Methodist churches such as the African Methodist Episcopal and AME Zion churches, and also various Wesleyan and Wesleyan Holiness churches) are not far behind, but I hesitate to provide an exact size, as the data is unreliable due to the alienated former membership of the UMC being in flux, with many having become Orthodox or members of other traditional liturgical churches, including more traditional Methodist churches, including our friend @jas3 who became Eastern Orthodox, and several of my relatives who are still discerning where to go.

The real scary number of adherents are Pentecostals and Charismatics. While Pentecosts can be numbered, Charismatics can't. No one has an accurate number....between 250-450 million in both camps. And the numbers are growing. The Word of Faith and Prosperity Gospel beliefs are still all the rage, TBN and Daystar TV are going gangbusters....which is market driven appetite for the more sensational psuedo-spiritual gifts. Spiritual flim flam.

 

[ARBITER01]

The real scary number of adherents are Pentecostals and Charismatics. While Pentecosts can be numbered, Charismatics can't. No one has an accurate number....between 250-450 million in both camps. And the numbers are growing. The Word of Faith and Prosperity Gospel beliefs are still all the rage, TBN and Daystar TV are going gangbusters....which is market driven appetite for the more sensational psuedo-spiritual gifts. Spiritual flim flam.

Lol,...

2011 Pew Research estimated that Pentecostals would overtake the Catholic church in membership around 2050. I think it will be sooner than that.

Maybe there is something more to that "Spiritual flim flam" that you and others love to hate. I'll tell you one thing, if there was nothing of real tangible substance, I would never be involved in it.

 

[th1bill]

Water baptism is the washing away of one's sins. Gad can also wash away one's sins by his commandment and will. That is why the thief was

I find this a minor disagreement but in my world Baptism is a declaration of having been forgiven, even more prominent it is the Public Statement that one is determined to follow Yashuah haḾashiach.

 

[Strong in Him]

I was just wondering does a person need to be baptized in water in order to be saved ?

No.

 

[Apple Sky]

No.

Informative

 

[Guojing]

I find this a minor disagreement but in my world Baptism is a declaration of having been forgiven, even more prominent it is the Public Statement that one is determined to follow Yashuah haḾashiach.

Which part of scripture you got this view from?

 

[Guojing]

There are too many responses, so I will stop there. TL;DR, yes you need water baptism to be saved.

Anything else you would also need to be saved?

 

[AveChristusRex]

Anything else you would also need to be saved?

Spirit. "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." (Mark 16:16)