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Do we need to be baptized in order to be saved ?

ARBITER01

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How does one achieve this ? :confused:

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? The word is near you, in your mouth, and in your heart; that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 that if you shall confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and shall believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Whosoever believes on Him shall not be put to shame."

The sinners prayer.

I looked up and asked for forgiveness one night, believing that Jesus was raised from the dead, and was saved. Everything is of the heart.

Btw, I'm not interested in 20 questions.
 
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Apple Sky

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Rom 10:8 But what does it say? The word is near you, in your mouth, and in your heart; that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 that if you shall confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and shall believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Whosoever believes on Him shall not be put to shame."

The sinners prayer.

I looked up and asked for forgiveness one night, believing that Jesus was raised from the dead, and was saved. Everything is of the heart.

Thank you.
 
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ViaCrucis

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The sinners prayer.

Is not found in Scripture.

Biblically speaking, all prayer--except the prayers offered by Christ our Lord Himself, who was without sin--is a sinner's prayer.

We are all of us sinners, so every prayer is a sinner's prayer ("For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God")

But there is no biblical support for some magic prayer that turns a person from non-saved to saved.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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KathrynAragon

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Is not found in Scripture.

Biblically speaking, all prayer--except the prayers offered by Christ our Lord Himself, who was without sin--is a sinner's prayer.

We are all of us sinners, so every prayer is a sinner's prayer ("For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God")

But there is no biblical support for some magic prayer that turns a person from non-saved to saved.

-CryptoLutheran


Everything true and good is not in the bible.
 
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th1bill

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There is n way arund it

Question: Is there saving grace without baptism?
The salvation of the Thief on the cross seems to answer that question when Yashuah told him he would be in Paradise with Him on that day.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Everything true and good is not in the bible.

As a Lutheran I subscribe to the principle of Sola Scriptura; this does not mean, however, that I believe in what has sometimes been called Nuda Scriptura.

I am not saying something cannot be true unless it is stated explicitly in Scripture.

I am saying, however, that the idea that an unregenerate person can simply speak some kind of prayer or incantation and this act flips some kind of switch from unsaved to saved is entirely without support in the text of Sacred Scripture; it is also entirely without support in the historic faith and practice of the Church of the last two thousand years. It is a purely modern theological innovation introduced by certain neo-Protestants in the last hundred years.

The tradition of the Sinner's Prayer can be traced back to late 19th and early 20th century; operating from within the Revivalist Tradition which emerged during the 19th century religious movement known as the Second Great Awakening; of chief importance in this area is the influence and work of Charles G. Finney, Dwight L. Moody, Billy Sunday, and Bill Bright.

Scripture, and the entire history of the Christian faith, maintains that salvation is not some kind of light switch that can be flipped on and off; but instead is the multifaceted work of God operating in the world, especially in the human life, through His grace. It is the operational power of the Holy Spirit who works through gracious means, e.g. Word and Sacrament, by which God creates, works, and strengthens faith; repairs in us the damage of sin, calls us to a life of good works and repentance, and speaks to us our justification whereby, on Christ's account, we are reckoned as righteous and holy before God. Not on the basis of our own strength, ability, or merit; but on the basis of God's mercy, Christ's work, and the Holy Spirit's power.

I am, therefore, made new in Christ, by the Holy Spirit, by the grace of God through the work, activity, power, and mercy of God in what He does--through the call of the Gospel, through the comfort of Christ who died for us and rose again, through the Sacrament of Holy Baptism by which we are washed and renewed, cleansed and united to Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection, through the Holy Eucharist where we receive the very flesh and blood of the Savior who gave His life for us and who lives and reigns at the right hand of the Father, through the continual good mercy of God who absolves me of my sins through Holy Absolution. So that I, though a sinner and wretch, might boldly approach the Throne of Grace--boldly, not because I am worthy, but because Christ is worthy, and I come before God clothed with Jesus Christ and His righteousness.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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KathrynAragon

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As a Lutheran I subscribe to the principle of Sola Scriptura; this does not mean, however, that I believe in what has sometimes been called Nuda Scriptura.

I am not saying something cannot be true unless it is stated explicitly in Scripture.

I am saying, however, that the idea that an unregenerate person can simply speak some kind of prayer or incantation and this act flips some kind of switch from unsaved to saved is entirely without support in the text of Sacred Scripture; it is also entirely without support in the historic faith and practice of the Church of the last two thousand years. It is a purely modern theological innovation introduced by certain neo-Protestants in the last hundred years.

The tradition of the Sinner's Prayer can be traced back to late 19th and early 20th century; operating from within the Revivalist Tradition which emerged during the 19th century religious movement known as the Second Great Awakening; of chief importance in this area is the influence and work of Charles G. Finney, Dwight L. Moody, Billy Sunday, and Bill Bright.

Scripture, and the entire history of the Christian faith, maintains that salvation is not some kind of light switch that can be flipped on and off; but instead is the multifaceted work of God operating in the world, especially in the human life, through His grace. It is the operational power of the Holy Spirit who works through gracious means, e.g. Word and Sacrament, by which God creates, works, and strengthens faith; repairs in us the damage of sin, calls us to a life of good works and repentance, and speaks to us our justification whereby, on Christ's account, we are reckoned as righteous and holy before God. Not on the basis of our own strength, ability, or merit; but on the basis of God's mercy, Christ's work, and the Holy Spirit's power.

I am, therefore, made new in Christ, by the Holy Spirit, by the grace of God through the work, activity, power, and mercy of God in what He does--through the call of the Gospel, through the comfort of Christ who died for us and rose again, through the Sacrament of Holy Baptism by which we are washed and renewed, cleansed and united to Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection, through the Holy Eucharist where we receive the very flesh and blood of the Savior who gave His life for us and who lives and reigns at the right hand of the Father, through the continual good mercy of God who absolves me of my sins through Holy Absolution. So that I, though a sinner and wretch, might boldly approach the Throne of Grace--boldly, not because I am worthy, but because Christ is worthy, and I come before God clothed with Jesus Christ and His righteousness.

-CryptoLutheran

My thing is that rushing down the aisle after 20 verses of Just As I Am does not save a person. God looks at the heart only in my opinion.
 
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ARBITER01

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Is not found in Scripture.

Biblically speaking, all prayer--except the prayers offered by Christ our Lord Himself, who was without sin--is a sinner's prayer.

We are all of us sinners, so every prayer is a sinner's prayer ("For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God")

But there is no biblical support for some magic prayer that turns a person from non-saved to saved.

-CryptoLutheran

Oh it's you again.......

You can hold onto your water regeneration,.... you're doing just fine.
 
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ViaCrucis

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My thing is that rushing down the aisle after 20 verses of Just As I Am does not save a person. God looks at the heart only in my opinion.

I don't subscribe to "Altar Call" theology. As I pointed out in my previous post, this is the product of a certain American religious movement from the 19th century.

I agree that God looks at the heart; but I would add that the problem of sin means the human heart itself needs to be changed. The Prophet Jeremiah wrote that "the heart is deceitful above all else, and desperately sick, who can understand it?".

We need a new heart. And that is something only God, out of the abundance of His love and kindness toward us, can give us.

So King David wrote in the Psalm, "Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me". My sinful heart will always dispose me toward willful disobedience; I need a new heart, a heart that loves God and loves my neighbor.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ARBITER01

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To proclaim good news and annoy false teachers.

-CryptoLutheran

There's always been a war between scripture and tradition. Us bible believing Protestant types won when we got the scriptures in our own languages. We don't have to listen to the traditionalist types anymore, we have the truth in our hands and in our hearts now.

Good luck.
 
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Legion7777777

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In water? no

In The Holy Spirit? Yes

Salvation is a renewal of our human spirit by the blood of Jesus, and that blood is applied by The Holy Spirit at our born again experience. That is when we are saved. Accept no substitutions.

Water immersion is a step that Jesus took that we must take also, but it follows our born again experience, as scripture describes throughout the book of Acts by our Apostles. Pay attention to scripture not tradition.

The third step we must take to follow Jesus is the filling of The Holy Spirit, but a lot of people somehow become inherently dumb at that point and listen to their friends or their denomination instead of GOD and refuse to do it.

Even more rare is the person that is able to get through their wilderness after their filling and obtain the anointing upon their head and the clothing upon of The Holy Spirit, so that The Holy Spirit can operate the greater gifts of The Spirit.
Some more of my copy and paste stuff....
In this current age water baptism is not longer used or needed for salvation.

Ephesians 5:26 KJV — That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

From Water Baptism to Baptism of the Holy Spirit

  • Act 18:24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. Act 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spoke and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. Act 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. Act 18:27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: Act 18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.
  1. Act 19:3-5 And he said unto them, Unto what then were you baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied.
  2. Which he has shed upon us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
  3. 1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
  4. Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
  5. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Mark 2:27,28
Matthew 3:11 KJV — I(John the Baptist) indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he(Jesus) that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he(Jesus) shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
 
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Ain't Zwinglian

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I was just wondering does a person need to be baptized in water in order to be saved ?
There are two passages of Scripture where Christians are COMMANDED to be baptized ....Matthew 28:19 and Acts 2:38-39. To say we don't need to be baptized is tantamount like saying we don't need to obey any of the other commands of Scripture such as Do not steal or Do not commit adultery. Some Christians just pick and choose what commands of Scripture they should obey.
 
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ARBITER01

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Some say yes & some say no, i'm sort of confused here. :confused:

Well,.... what did our Apostles do when they spread the gospel? They water immersed in the name of Jesus.

Water immersion is important since Jesus did it. He is our example to follow, but we do it after our born again experience.

You don't necessarily have to trust us, spend some time in scripture and asking GOD for help understanding. You'll get it.
 
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Guojing

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Some say yes & some say no, i'm sort of confused here. :confused:

How I understand Scripture is by rightly dividing the word of truth.

Under the gospel of the kingdom preached to Israel only, water baptism is a requirement for salvation. Israel as a nation was supposed to accept Jesus as their Messiah and be ushered into their promised kingdom where Jesus will rule over them from David's throne in Jerusalem.

Then Israel will become a kingdom of priest, in order to be a priest, every Jew MUST be baptized (Exodus 19:4-6)

Once that happen, then every Jew will be responsible to spread the gospel to every Gentile nation under the Earth. There are a number of OT passages that talk about this prophetic timetable, the most beautiful to me is found in Zechariah 8

3 Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain.

7 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country;

8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

20 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities:

21 And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the Lord, and to seek the Lord of hosts: I will go also.

22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord.

23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
====

But as we can all see by Acts 7, Israel has rejected their King, they even stoned Stephen who was full of the Holy Spirit. When that happened, Jesus saved Saul and revealed to him a mystery, that because of Israel's rejection, all the Gentiles can now be saved without them (Romans 9 to Romans 11).

How does one get saved now? That is thru 1 Cor 15:1-4. Water baptism is no longer required for anything under this mystery grace dispensation.

That is what I meant by "rightly dividing the word of truth". All of us in the Body of Christ should not be going back to the gospel of the kingdom, found in the 4 gospels and early Acts, for our salvation doctrine.
 
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ARBITER01

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All of us in the Body of Christ should not be going back to the gospel of the kingdom, found in the 4 gospels and early Acts, for our salvation doctrine.

@Apple Sky

This is why I told you not to trust people on here, but to learn to seek GOD's understanding of scripture instead.

Let GOD be true and all men liars.
 
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Guojing

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@Apple Sky

This is why I told you not to trust people on here, but to learn to seek GOD's understanding of scripture instead.

Let GOD be true and all men liars.

Yes, as I said, the gospel that saves today is found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

Read that and you will realized water baptism is not necessary for salvation today.
 
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