Do the Ten Commandments define sin? (nope)

[LoveGodsWord]

OUR MORAL DUTY TOWARDS OUR NEIGHBOR; TABLE 2

MATTHEW 22:38-40
[39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (LOVE TO GOD AND LOVE TO YOUR NEIGHBOR) HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

from...

LEVITICUS 19:18 [18], You shall not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF;: I am the LORD.

* JESUS says; On these two great commandments of LOVE; Hang ALL the LAW and the prophets.

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5. HONOR PARENTS

OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCE: "Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee." (Exodus 20:12)

NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCES: Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (Mt15:3,4/Mk 7:10) "Honour thy father and thy mother (Matthew 19:19; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20)

"Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." (Romans 1:29-32)

"Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise), that it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth." (Ephesians 6:1-3)

"Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord." (Colossians 3:20)

"But if any widow have children or nephews, let them learn first to shew piety at home, and to requite their parents: for that is good and acceptable before God." (1 Timothy 5:4)

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6. DO NOT MURDER

OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCE: "Thou shalt not kill (murder)." (Exodus 20:13)

NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCES: "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment." (Matthew 5:21,22 - see 1 John 2:9) [Jesus says unjustified anger is equal to murder] Do not kill" (Mark 10:19) Thou shalt not kill" (Romans 13:9)

"For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law." (James 2:11)

"But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters." (1 Peter 4:15)

We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:14,15)

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7. DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY

OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCE: Thou shalt not commit adultery (Exodus 20:14)

NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCES: "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:27-28) [Lustful fantasies are equal to adultery]

I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." (Matthew 5:32)

Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery (Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20)

Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. (Mark 10:11,12)

"Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery." (Luke 16:18 )

this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act Jesus said unto her, go, and sin no more. (John 8:4-11)

So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress" (Romans 7:3)

"Thou shalt not commit adultery (Romans 13:9)

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9,10)

Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body." (1 Corinthians 6:18)

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galations 5:19-21)

For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication" (1 Thesselonians 4:3)

Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge." (Hebrews 13:4)

"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." (Jude 1:7)

"And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds." (Revelation 2:21,22)

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8. DO NOT STEAL

OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCE: Thou shalt not steal. (Exodus 20:15)

NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCES: Thou shalt not steal (Matthew 19:18; Romans 13:9)

Do not steal (Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20)

thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:10)

Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. (Ephesians 4:28)

But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. (1 Peter 4:15)

Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. (Revelation 9:21)

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9. DO NOT LIE

OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCE: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. (Exodus 20:16)

NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCES: every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." (Matthew 12:36,37)

For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man. (Matthew 15:19,20)

Thou shalt not bear false witness (Matthew 19:18; Romans 13:9)

Do not bear false witness (Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20)

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (John 8:44)

"But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty (2 Corinthians 4:2)

Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour. (Ephesians 4:25)

Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds (Colossians 3:9)

Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. (1 Timothy 3:11)

speak evil of no man (Titus 3:2)

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8)

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." (Revelation 22:14-15)

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10. DO NOT COVET/LUST

OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCE: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbour's. (Exodus 20:17)

NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCES: And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth. (Luke 12:15)

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." (Romans 7:7)

Thou shalt not covet (Romans 13:9)

"But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;" (Ephesians 5:3)

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." (1 Timothy 6:10)

Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." (Hebrews 13:5)

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Yep seems like EVERONE of God's 10 Commandments are repeated in the NEW TESTAMENT. No more room to wiggle.

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God's 10 Commandments give us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

 

[Soyeong]

I think the Apostle is saying that the law and grace are incompatible. To be under the law is to not be under grace.

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

I agree that trying to become justified by the law is not compatible with grace, but I don't don't see a good reason to think that the law he was speaking about was God's Law and I gave a number of good reasons it would make no sense to interpret him as speaking about God's Law. So please explain how you think Psalms 119:29, Titus 2:11-14, Romans 1:5, and Romans 3:31 should be interpreted if those verses as speaking about about the same law.

Romans 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.

This verse is clearly distinguish between a law of works and a law of faith, so it should be careful to determine which of the two laws he was speaking about in Galatians 5:4 if either.

 

[Soyeong]

And yes, I have heard the counter-argument. That all the Ten Commandments are found in the New Testament. I've been through the list. Just a lot of fluff, provided for those who want to believe it, for those who will not check the references to see what is and isn't there.

The law is a singular thing.
You are either under all of it, or you are under none of it.

Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

In Romans 3:19-22, Paul said that the Law and the Prophets testified to the righteousness of God through faith in Christ for everyone who believes, so it is something that has always been there, but was now being made manifest. In other words, the one and only way that there has ever been to become righteous is by grace through faith, which means that God's Law was never given for that purpose, which makes it that much more true for the works of the law. God had many purposes for giving the Law, but providing the means of becoming righteous was never one of them, so the fact that we don't become righteous by doing what is righteous does not mean that we don't need to do what is righteous. We have not received the righteousness of God in order to hide it under a bushel, but in order to let it shine.

1 Timothy 1:8-11
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

To use an analogy, speed limits are not needed for those who would otherwise drive at safe speeds, but for those who would otherwise drive at unsafe speeds. Instructions for how to do what is righteous are not needed for those who are already doing what is righteous, but for those who are not.

Proverbs 4:2 For I give you good doctrine; do not forsake my law.

 

[Soyeong]

Here's how I read that. Grace is a substitute for the previous grace given. (the law)

John 1:16-17
Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure about that translation, but either way it is associating the law with grace if it refers to the law as grace already given.

 

[Soyeong]

But what about living a Spirit-filled life? Being directed by God's Spirit rather than laws?

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

The Spirit is not in disagreement with the Father about which laws we should follow, so why does it have to be one or the other? In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have a mind set on the flesh, who refuse to submit to God's Law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it, so it would make no sense to interpret 5:18 as speaking about God's Law. Rather, in 5:16-17, Paul described the desires of the flesh as causing us not to do the good that we want to do, which is exactly how he described his struggle with the law of sin in Romans 7:13-25, so when we are led by the Spirit we are under God's Law and not under the law of sin.

 

[Saint Steven]

I agree that trying to become justified by the law is not compatible with grace, but I don't don't see a good reason to think that the law he was speaking about was God's Law and I gave a number of good reasons it would make no sense to interpret him as speaking about God's Law. So please explain how you think Psalms 119:29, Titus 2:11-14, Romans 1:5, and Romans 3:31 should be interpreted if those verses as speaking about about the same law.

Romans 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.

This verse is clearly distinguish between a law of works and a law of faith, so it should be careful to determine which of the two laws he was speaking about in Galatians 5:4 if either.

That's a lot of home work, teacher. lol
Let's start with the context of the verse in question. (Gal.5:4)

Galatians 5:1-6
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
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Okay, what law is this talking about in context?
- Verse 1 speaks of not being "burdened again by a yoke of slavery", but doesn't indicate what that is.
- Verse 2 speaks about circumcision. What law is that? Abrahamic/Mosaic.
- Verse 3 speaks about circumcision again and "the whole law". What law is that?
- Verse 4 is our key verse. Refers to "the law".
- Verse 5 has no mention of law.
- Verse 6 refers to circumcision and uncircumcision, but these are in a collective sense, referring to Jewish and gentile peoples.

So, what law is Gal.5:4 referring to?
The law that includes circumcision. What law is that? Abrahamic/Mosaic.
Let's add that to the verse sentence.

You who are trying to be justified by the Abrahamic/Mosaic law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Did I get that right?

 

[Soyeong]

I guess I thought the atonement meant that he paid the price so we don't have to. What do you make of this?

Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

In Titus 2:14, it says that Christ gave himself to redeem us from all Lawless, and this certainly does refer to something that he did on our behalf so that we don't have to pay it ourselves. However, Titus 2:14 also says that Christ gave himself to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, and Christ did not set an example of doing good works so that we don't have to, but so that we would have an example to follow.

Our salvation is from sin and sin is defined as the transgression of God's Law, so being trained by grace through faith to live in obedience to God is what it looks like to be saved from living in disobedience to God, not something that we need to do in order to pay the penalty for our sins or to earn our justification.

 

[Saint Steven]

In Romans 3:19-22, Paul said that the Law and the Prophets testified to the righteousness of God through faith in Christ for everyone who believes, so it is something that has always been there, but was now being made manifest. In other words, the one and only way that there has ever been to become righteous is by grace through faith, which means that God's Law was never given for that purpose, which makes it that much more true for the works of the law. God had many purposes for giving the Law, but providing the means of becoming righteous was never one of them, so the fact that we don't become righteous by doing what is righteous does not mean that we don't need to do what is righteous. We have not received the righteousness of God in order to hide it under a bushel, but in order to let it shine. …

The something that has always been there is faith, not the law. Ironically, the new covenant precedes the old. We are of the faith of Abraham, not of the faith of Moses.

 

[Saint Steven]

…
To use an analogy, speed limits are not needed for those who would otherwise drive at safe speeds, but for those who would otherwise drive at unsafe speeds. Instructions for how to do what is righteous are not needed for those who are already doing what is righteous, but for those who are not.

Proverbs 4:2 For I give you good doctrine; do not forsake my law.

That's good. Here's a similar analogy. This is based on American geography. I'm not sure where you are from. (just a head's-up)

If I am driving in the state of Texas, the traffic laws of the state of New Jersey do not apply. Admittedly, there may be quite a bit of similarity. But I cannot be charged in Texas based on New Jersey law.

 

[James Richards]

The Spirit is not in disagreement with the Father about which laws we should follow, so why does it have to be one or the other? In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have a mind set on the flesh, who refuse to submit to God's Law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it, so it would make no sense to interpret 5:18 as speaking about God's Law. Rather, in 5:16-17, Paul described the desires of the flesh as causing us not to do the good that we want to do, which is exactly how he described his struggle with the law of sin in Romans 7:13-25, so when we are led by the Spirit we are under God's Law and not under the law of sin.

Paul of course was speaking of his life as a Pharisee in rom 7:7-11&13-24. It is all about breaking the tenth commandment. The law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break

 

[Saint Steven]

The Spirit is not in disagreement with the Father about which laws we should follow, so why does it have to be one or the other? In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have a mind set on the flesh, who refuse to submit to God's Law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it, so it would make no sense to interpret 5:18 as speaking about God's Law. Rather, in 5:16-17, Paul described the desires of the flesh as causing us not to do the good that we want to do, which is exactly how he described his struggle with the law of sin in Romans 7:13-25, so when we are led by the Spirit we are under God's Law and not under the law of sin.

I guess we can agree on this one, assuming you are talking about the law that God has placed on human conscience. (which I define as God's law) But this raises a question about what law God would right on our hearts if we already have a law on our mind. Especially when the heart and the mind are the same thing.

All that aside, we still have a problem with the verse in question. This indicates that the Spirit and the law are incompatible. It's one or the other, not both.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[Saint Steven]

In Titus 2:14, it says that Christ gave himself to redeem us from all Lawless, and this certainly does refer to something that he did on our behalf so that we don't have to pay it ourselves. However, Titus 2:14 also says that Christ gave himself to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, and Christ did not set an example of doing good works so that we don't have to, but so that we would have an example to follow.

Our salvation is from sin and sin is defined as the transgression of God's Law, so being trained by grace through faith to live in obedience to God is what it looks like to be saved from living in disobedience to God, not something that we need to do in order to pay the penalty for our sins or to earn our justification.

I think I have raised this point before, but I think we misunderstand this idea of following Jesus example. And even so, why would we reduce it to law-keeping?

If we want to follow Jesus example we should be homeless wanderers going from town to town healing the sick and casting out demons. And on Saturday we would invade the nearest synagogue and preach the gospel. Can I get a halleluiah?

 

[James Richards]

I
In Galatians 2:17-19, if in our endeavor to be justified in Christ we are found to be transgressors of God's Law, then that does mean that Christ is minister of Lawlessness. If we rebuild the Lawlessness that we died to, then we prove ourselves to be transgressors of the Law. For through the Law of God we have died to the law of sin so that we might live for God.

It wouldn't make sense to interpret Paul as saying that we need to die to God's instructions for how to live for Him in order to be free to live for Him, but rather we need to die to a law that was hindering us from living for God and causing us not to do the good that we wanted to do, which is the law of sin. Christ is not a minister of Lawlessness, but rather he said he would tell those who are Lawless to depart from Him (Matthew 7:21-23).




.

We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

17 ‘But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a law-breaker.



In verses 15&16 Paul stresses you cannot be justified by works of the law/observing the law, but rather by faith in Christ. What justification is he speaking of in verses17&18, for he is writing of a justification that takes time to see? For immediately upon conversion you are covered by the blood of Christ, he is your saviour, you are justified by faith in him:



But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness Rom 6:17&18



When you become a Christian, you come as a slave to sin, and you need to cross over to become a slave of righteousness, but this transition takes time, it is not instantaneous. Some sin you can immediately cease upon conversion, for it has not wrapped itself so tightly around you that you are its slave/completely dominated by it. Other sin is not so simple, you may have been its slave for years, if not decades. In Gal2:16&17 Paul is writing of seeking a justification of your Christianity in respect of crossing over from being a slave of sin when you come to Christ, into a slave of righteousness leading to holiness. He is not writing of an instant event in your life. You seek this justification of your faith by faith in Christ, not striving to obey the law(as previously mentioned) Now what if a man goes to a church meeting whilst he is seeking this justification, this crossing over from being a slave to sin to a slave of righteousness. He will be standing there praising and worshipping God whilst he still has very evident sin in his life. What would someone think who did not understand the Gospel message? They would think if this man is a Christian Christ must promote sin. However, the man hates the sin for he has been born again and is desperate to be rid of it, the last thing he wants is for it to stay there. But he is still entitled to rejoice in his salvation, despite his imperfections, otherwise he must go around in sackcloth and ashes until he is as pure as the driven snow.

Immediatley after Paul asks the question: Does Christ promote sin he answers is: Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed I prove I am a lawbreaker(NIV 1984 edition). What has Paul constantly tried to destroy? Righteousness based on observing the law. Therefore if Paul rebuilt what he had destroyed and sought justification of works of the law, he would fail, and simply prove he was a lawbreaker.

 

[Soyeong]

That's a lot of home work, teacher. lol
Let's start with the context of the verse in question. (Gal.5:4)

Galatians 5:1-6
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Okay, what law is this talking about in context?
- Verse 1 speaks of not being "burdened again by a yoke of slavery", but doesn't indicate what that is.
- Verse 2 speaks about circumcision. What law is that? Abrahamic/Mosaic.
- Verse 3 speaks about circumcision again and "the whole law". What law is that?
- Verse 4 is our key verse. Refers to "the law".
- Verse 5 has no mention of law.
- Verse 6 refers to circumcision and uncircumcision, but these are in a collective sense, referring to Jewish and gentile peoples.

So, what law is Gal.5:4 referring to?
The law that includes circumcision. What law is that? Abrahamic/Mosaic.
Let's add that to the verse sentence.

You who are trying to be justified by the Abrahamic/Mosaic law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Did I get that right?

Verse 1 It is for freedom that God sets us free, so God it is for freedom that God set the Israelites free from bondage in Egypt, not in order to put them under bondage to His Law. God's Law is a law of freedom (Psalms 119:45), while it is sin in transgression of God's Law that puts us in bondage. In addition, the opinion that someone has of the Law matches the opinion that they have of the Lawgiver. For example, if someone thinks that God's Law is unjust, then God must have been unjust for giving it, so if someone has such a low opinion of the Law that they consider it to be a yoke of slavery, then they must have an equally low opinion of the Lawgiver. The Psalms contain extremely high praise for God's Law, which certainly matched David's opinion of the Lawgiver, and you won't even find a hint that David considered it to be a yoke of slavery. Furthermore, if you believe that the Psalms are Scripture and therefore express a correct view of God's Law, then you should share it instead of holding the polar opposite of the view expressed in Scripture.

Verse 2 Roughly 80% of the men in the US are circumcised, so either Paul was saying that Christ is of no value to us or the reason why someone becomes circumcised is relevant. Likewise, Paul had Timothy circumcised and I don't think that he was causing Christ to be of no value to him. So I think that there are good and bad reasons for becoming circumcised and this verse Paul was speaking against becoming circumcised for the wrong reason.

Verse 3 A Gentile who become a Jewish proselyte and becoming a covenant member was making their story his own was joining the group of people who agreed at Sinai to do everything that Moses said (Exodus 20:19). Moses had the authority to interpret the Torah, but he passes down this authority on Jethro's advice, and by the 1st century, those who had this authority passed down to them were referred to as sitting in the seat of Moses and it had become a large body of supplementary Jewish oral laws, traditions, case law, and fences that they taught that people needed to obey in order to become saved, which Jesus referred to as placing a heavy burden on the people (Matthew 23:2-4). So someone who let themselves become circumcised was becoming a Jewish proselyte and agreeing to live according to the whole law aka the Talmud and doing all of that in order to become saved, and this was the problem, not God's Law.

Verse 4 In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved. However, God never commanded all Gentiles to become circumcised and the purpose that God commanded all Jews to become circumcised was not in order to become saved, so in Galatians 5:4, those who were trying to become justified by becoming circumcised and obeying the Talmud were being cut off from Christ because they were not seeking to become justified by faith. They were falling from grace because they were following the laws of men rather than the laws of God. Again, David wanted God to show his grace to him by teaching him to obey His Law.

Verse 5 Righteousness has always been by faith and the same faith by which we are declared righteous also leads us to follow God's instructions for how to do what is righteous found in His Law.

Verse 6 A major part of the problem of why Gentiles were wanting to become circumcised was that they were being made to feel like they were inferior to the Jews, as second class, and not being full covenant members. In other words, some Jews were considering themselves to have special status within the New Covenant because of their circumcision and this was what Paul was denying (See also Galatians 3:28). What counts is faith expressing itself through love. He said essentially the same thing in 1 Corinthians 7:19 that circumcision has no value, what matters is obeying the commandments of God. However, he also said in Roman 3:1-2, that circumcision has much value in every way, so the issue is that circumcision as no inherent value and that its value of circumcision is entirely derived from whether we obey God's Law (Romans 2:25). The way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's Law (Romans 2:26), which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 10:12-16).

 

[Saint Steven]

Verse 1 It is for freedom that God sets us free, so God it is for freedom that God set the Israelites free from bondage in Egypt, not in order to put them under bondage to His Law. God's Law is a law of freedom (Psalms 119:45), while it is sin in transgression of God's Law that puts us in bondage. In addition, the opinion that someone has of the Law matches the opinion that they have of the Lawgiver. For example, if someone thinks that God's Law is unjust, then God must have been unjust for giving it, so if someone has such a low opinion of the Law that they consider it to be a yoke of slavery, then they must have an equally low opinion of the Lawgiver. The Psalms contain extremely high praise for God's Law, which certainly matched David's opinion of the Lawgiver, and you won't even find a hint that David considered it to be a yoke of slavery. Furthermore, if you believe that the Psalms are Scripture and therefore express a correct view of God's Law, then you should share it instead of holding the polar opposite of the view expressed in Scripture.
…

If that is correct, why did the Apostle Peter make this declaration?

Acts 15:10-11
Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

 

[Saint Steven]

…
Verse 2 Roughly 80% of the men in the US are circumcised, so either Paul was saying that Christ is of no value to us or the reason why someone becomes circumcised is relevant. Likewise, Paul had Timothy circumcised and I don't think that he was causing Christ to be of no value to him. So I think that there are good and bad reasons for becoming circumcised and this verse Paul was speaking against becoming circumcised for the wrong reason. …

Seriously? You are really missing the point here.

Circumcision was the entry point to being under the law. By putting themselves under the law, Christ became of no value to them. That would be a step backwards. What is the point of being saved by grace if you are going to try to earn it by the works of the law?

 

[Saint Steven]

…

Verse 3 A Gentile who become a Jewish proselyte and becoming a covenant member was making their story his own was joining the group of people who agreed at Sinai to do everything that Moses said (Exodus 20:19). Moses had the authority to interpret the Torah, but he passes down this authority on Jethro's advice, and by the 1st century, those who had this authority passed down to them were referred to as sitting in the seat of Moses and it had become a large body of supplementary Jewish oral laws, traditions, case law, and fences that they taught that people needed to obey in order to become saved, which Jesus referred to as placing a heavy burden on the people (Matthew 23:2-4). So someone who let themselves become circumcised was becoming a Jewish proselyte and agreeing to live according to the whole law aka the Talmud and doing all of that in order to become saved, and this was the problem, not God's Law. …

If that was the case, the Apostle would have said as much. He made a clear reference to the whole law.

 

[Saint Steven]

…

Verse 6 A major part of the problem of why Gentiles were wanting to become circumcised was that they were being made to feel like they were inferior to the Jews, as second class, and not being full covenant members. In other words, some Jews were considering themselves to have special status within the New Covenant because of their circumcision and this was what Paul was denying (See also Galatians 3:28). What counts is faith expressing itself through love. He said essentially the same thing in 1 Corinthians 7:19 that circumcision has no value, what matters is obeying the commandments of God. However, he also said in Roman 3:1-2, that circumcision has much value in every way, so the issue is that circumcision as no inherent value and that its value of circumcision is entirely derived from whether we obey God's Law (Romans 2:25). The way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's Law (Romans 2:26), which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 10:12-16).

This was answered in Acts chapter fifteen at the Jerusalem Council.

 

[Soyeong]

This was answered in Acts chapter fifteen at the Jerusalem Council.

The topic of Acts 15 had nothing to do with whether followers of God should follow God. As I pointed out in my post what they were wanting to require Gentiles to do in Acts 15:1 was not something that God ever required, so they were upholding God's Law by rejecting that man-made requirement.

In Deuteronomy 30:11-14, God said that His Law was not too difficult for His people to obey, so if Acts 15:10 were referring to God's Law, then they would have been in direct disagreement with God and they therefore would have been wrong. In 1 John 5:3, it also confirms that the commandments of God are not burdensome. Every Sabbath Jews thank God every Sabbath for giving them the Torah as instructions for life, so it is absurd to impose the view upon them that they considered the Law to be a burden that no one could bear. The Psalms contain extremely high praise for the Torah and I don't think it is a stretch to say that Jews were in agreement with the Psalms. If you think that the Psalms are Scripture and therefore express a correct view of God's Law, then you should also share it.

There are 1,050 commandments in the NT, so to say say that the laws listed in Acts 15:19-21 are an exhaustive list of everything that would ever be required of mature gentile believers would be to disregard over 99% of the commandments in the NT, including those taught by Jesus, Clearly it was not intended as an exhaustive list for mature believers, but as stated it was a list intended not to make things too difficult for new believers. To use an analogy, when an employer hires a new employee, they don't want to make it too difficult for them by having them memorize everything that they will ever need to know about how to do their job up front, but rather they start with teaching them just the basics of what they will need to know with the understanding that they will continue to learn the rest on the job. So Acts 15:19-21 is along the same line of thought where they didn't want to make things too difficult for new believers coming to faith by making them memorize a long list of laws up front, but rather they started with the basics of what would make a clean break from paganism, which they excused by saying that they would continue to learn how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues.

 

[Soyeong]

If that was the case, the Apostle would have said as much. He made a clear reference to the whole law.

I didn't deny that he made a clear reference to the whole law, but rather I spoke in regard to what he was referring to by the "whole law". There existed a large body of Jewish oral laws that existed in the 1st century while played a major role within Judaism that were the subject of much of the discussions about laws in the NT, which you need to account for.

The phrase "works of the of the law" does not have a definitive article in the Greek, so it is literally translated in the YLT as "works of law", which means that it does not refer to a definitive set of laws, such as THE Law of Moses, but rather Paul used it as a catch-all phrase to refer to this large body of oral laws, which people were being taught that they needed to obey in order to become saved. This is also how the phrase is used in the Qumran Text 4QMMT. It was the role of these man-made laws that were major issue in Acts 15 and Galatians.