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Do the Ten Commandments define sin? (nope)

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Saint Steven, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    If you believe the Ten Commandments define sin, you have left yourself lots of wiggle room.

    These sins are not covered under the TCs.
    - Pride
    - Greed
    - Envy
    - Wrath, Fits of Rage
    - Lust
    - Gluttony
    - Sloth
    - Dishonesty, Deception
    - Impurity, Debauchery
    - Witchcraft, Sorcery
    - Hatred, Indifference
    - Jealousy
    - Showing Favoritism, Prejudice and Discrimination
    - Selfish Ambition, Self-Centeredness
    - Withholding Remedy to Human or Animal Needs
    - Drunkenness, Drug Abuse
    - Fornication, Sodomy, Bestiality
    - Discord, Dissensions, Factions
    - Unbelief, Disbelief, Agnosticism, Atheism
    - Etc.

    The definition of sin is not limited to the Ten Commandments.

    Okay, back to your wiggling.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
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  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I believe hatred is at the root of all sin. Just as love is at the root of all righteousness. So anything that places a person above equality with others is sin. On the high end, luxury places us above the needs of others. On the low end, cannibalism is probably the fullest expression of hatred.
     
  3. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    That's good. Thanks.
    I heard a sermon on indifference that reshaped my view on this.

    Indifference is the extreme in the middle. And is worse than hatred in my view. I would rather have someone hate me than be indifferent. At least hatred acknowledges my existence. I would prefer an enemy to someone that denies that I even exist, or have needs. Much of what you were saying about luxury fits into this sin of indifference. Luxury says, "I take care of me. No one else exists, except those who can benefit me."

    Luke 14:12-14
    Then Jesus said to his host,
    “When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends,
    your brothers or sisters, your relatives, or your rich neighbors;
    if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid.
    13 But when you give a banquet,
    invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind,
    14 and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you,
    you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
     
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  4. Daryl7777

    Daryl7777 New Member

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    What you have covered are the acts of sin. Everything you listed and what is listed in the Ten Commandments are all behaviors.

    To find a definition of sin requires that you get to the root source of the nature of sin: That man is inherently selfish and is more concerned with meeting his or her own needs than the needs of God or others. Everything you listed is a behavior of a person taking care of himself or herself first, or focusing on self instead of God and others.
     
  5. Cement

    Cement Active Member

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    Nobody knows whats its like to be sin free since we are literally living in it every moment.
     
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  6. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Sin is breaking any of God's 10 commandments. These are the root of all sin which Jesus says begin in the heart (Matthew 5:22-28).

    Whatsoever is not of faith is sin (not believing or following God's WORD).

    To him that knows to do right and does not do it to him is sin (James 4:17). If you know God's WORD tells you to do something and you do not do it then it is sin.

    This does not mean according to the OP title that sin is not breaking Gods 10 commandments.

    That teaching is against God's WORD.

    BREAKING GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS IS STILL SIN

    JAMES 2:8-12
    [8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
    [9], But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
    [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
    [11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

    Yep, James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW and commit SIN. James quotes two of the 10 Commandments that are summed up in the 2nd great commandments of LOVE to our neighbor in v11

    links to...........

    1 JOHN 3:4 [4] Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

    John is saying the same thing as James and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments). We will look at the chapter context shortly which give the example in v15 of MURDER God's 6th Command of the 10.

    Links to...........

    ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known SIN, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

    Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that SIN is breaking God's commandments and uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

    Links to...

    ROMANS 3:20 [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

    Context is v9; both Jew and Greek ALL under SIN, v10 None are righteous no not one, v11 None seek after God, v12 All have gone out of the way, there is none that does good [χρηστότης means MORAL excellence]. v13-18 Peace they have not known, destruction is in their way; they do not fear God. Now the CONTEXT is there is none that do GOOD which is in reference to χρηστότης MORAL excellence. Now let's look at v19-20

    ROMANS 3:19-21
    [19] Now we know that whatsoever things the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

    Context is no one does good χρηστότης MORAL excellence. God's LAW (10 Commandments) are the standard of RIGHTEOUSNESS.

    PSALMS 119:172 [172], My tongue shall speak of your word: for all your commandments are righteousness [צדק; tsedeq means; the right natural, moral or legal; also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity: - X even, (X that which is altogether) just (-ice), ([un-]) right (-eous) (cause, -ly, -ness)].

    RIGHTEOUSNESS צדק; tsedeq in God's LAW is the standard of χρηστότης; MORAL excellence

    The CONTEXT then is doing GOOD in reference to God's LAW (10 Commandments) v19 that is defines SIN and makes all the world guilty before GOD.

    [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

    No one is justified by God's LAW which is the standard of RIGHTEOUSNESS [Moral excellence and Good] because if broken it gives us a KNOWLEDGE of sin. Already defined in James as breaking any of God's 10 Commandments.

    [21], But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    God's LAW is the standard of RIGHTOEUSNESS (Psalms 119:172) MORAL EXCELLENCE standard of what is GOOD. The RIGHTOUENESS of GOD outside of the LAW being witnessed by the LAW and the prophets v22 which is by FAITH in Christ; WHY? v23 because ALL HAVE SINNED broken God's LAW. v24-28 we are only made righteous by faith in Christ without the deeds of the law. v31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    .....................

    CONCLUSION: PAUL, JAMES and JOHN all agree together that if we break any of God's LAW (10 commandments) we commit SIN. All three use example of breaking the 10 Commandments as what defines sin.

    Sorry Steve God's WORD disagrees with your teaching

    1 JOHN 2:3-5
    [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    [4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [5], But whoever keeps his word, in him truly is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

    We should believe and follow God's WORD over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter the KINGDOM of HERAVEN * HEBREWS 10:26-27.

    Hope this helps :wave:
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  7. Daryl7777

    Daryl7777 New Member

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  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    @daryl

    Sorry Daryl, I finished editing my post before yours was sent but for clarity it is the title of the OP that I am responding to.

    The title of the OP is

    Do God's 10 Commandments define sin? (NOPE)


    That has no truth in it as shown in the scriptures above and yes his teaching is that the 10 Commandments are abolished just ask him

    Hope this helps
     
  9. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    John wrote that sin is the breaking of commandments... so that is the definition regardless of our theological bias'. If God says, "do not steal," and you steal, then you have sinned. I would agree with you that it all begins in the heart... which was the point I made repeatedly to you in your other thread and you didn't seem to grasp it there. Since hate and love are heart conditions, I am glad to see that you finally understand that sin begins in the heart but it is still defined by our actions.
     
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  10. Hillsage

    Hillsage One for Him and Him for all Supporter

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    Bravo, I was wondering if anyone would ever point that fact out. :oldthumbsup: From the beginning, any grouping of people governed their families, tribes, countries without the necessity of the Ten commandments to define sin. The Law wasn't given to define sin it was to make trespasses/transgressions increase. And with the increase of trespasses/transgressions scripture says there was an increase in sin following. All the jumping around with definitions of what trespass/transgress mean has been amusing to me. They aren't 'little' sins 'big' sins, that's just a Catholic throw back to venial sin and mortal sin. As someone did correctly post in the other thread "Sin is sin", period IMO. Theologians just have never figured it all out yet. They call an iniquity sin and transgression sin, and of course 'sin is sin'. But what does scripture do?

    EXO 34:7 keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation."

    If iniquity and transgression were sin then the bible wouldn't be as redundant here as the resident armchair theologians we've read. And as for the root of sin? The bible spells that out in Genesis and the temptations of Jesus and 1John.
     
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  11. AvgJoe

    AvgJoe Member since 2005 Supporter

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    I have to tweak that a little, and say that, selfishness is the root of all sin. The act of loving ourselves more than we love anyone or anything else. Someone can be selfish, but not hate the other person, at the same time. In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus explains the two greatest commandments, which are: Love God above all else, and Love your neighbor as yourself.

    "Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." (Matthew 22:37-40)
    Selfishness is what these two great commandments oppose. Selfishness means loving ourselves first. However, Jesus Christ explains that we are to love God first. Loving others and ourselves is supposed to be a tie for second place.
     
  12. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I liked what you wrote until here. The law existed before Mount Sinai, I have a collection of commandments that were spoken before they were written. So there was sin before Sinai... Cain was punished, Abraham was said to have kept all of God's commandments and laws, and so forth. At Sinai, Israel was becoming a nation and thus the Law was written, the judgements and ability to prosecute added, and God's law became the law of the land as far as Israel was concerned. So if sin increased it was only because more people knew the extent of the law because it was now written down and read to them every 7 years. But the commandments predate Sinai.
     
  13. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Try the 613 OT commands. They more describe “transgression” rather than “sin.” Sin is an archery term meaning to aim at a target but to ‘miss the mark.’ That is the bulls eye.

    https://www.sonofdavid.org/podcast/is-the-law-sin/
     
  14. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We are saying the same thing in different ways. Inequality = selfishness.
     
  15. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Ten Commandments were for those motivated by hatred. That is why people steal and kill....
     
  16. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Actually Dave... the 10 commandments existed before Sinai and even Abraham kept them (Gen. 26:5). And, God set Israel aside as a Holy People and you are calling them all "motivated by hatred?" That is a very skewed view of a people God Himself set apart. I am not sure how you arrive at such a conclusion.
     
  17. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    ““The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai. The LORD did not make this covenant with our ancestors, but with all of us who are alive today.” (Deuteronomy 5:2–3)
     
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  18. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You tend to quote posts that have nothing to do with what I have said. The commandments existed before Sinai... they were WRITTEN at Sinai. I shared Gen. 26:5, I can share 32 other examples of the commandments being kept before Sinai... and none of that matters. The point is... You say motivation by HATE, John says motivation by LOVE. I go with John.
     
  19. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Moses says you are wrong. The Two Great Commandments came first.
     
  20. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I would love to see the verse that says that John (who said the love of God is keeping the commandments) is wrong. As for loving God and neighbor, as Yeshua said, ALL the Law hang on them... which means all the law still exists, we can simply categorize them on one or the other great commandment.

    I don't think there is a reason to continue this. You have a modern dispensational view of Scripture, I don't and I have no desire to go back to seeing Scripture through that lens... so you can have the last word. Be blessed.
     
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