Do the Ten Commandments define sin? (nope)

Saint Steven

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... But let me ask you this: Do you think that followers of God should seek to walk in His ways? If not, why not?
I think that is a popular misconception. We will never be like God no matter how hard we try. I'm happy to be his child. That's a role I can handle.

If we really want to follow Jesus we should do what he did. He actually asked us to. How are you doing on your list?

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.
 
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Saint Steven

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... So the point of the atoning work of Christ was to redeem us from all Lawlessness and to purify for himself a people who are zealous for doing works that express God's goodness (Titus 2:14). In Ephesians 2:8-10, we have been saved by grace through faith, not by doing good works, but rather we have been made new creations in Christ for the purpose of doing works that express God's goodness. …
I guess I thought the atonement meant that he paid the price so we don't have to. What do you make of this?

Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
 
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Saint Steven

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When we have a character trait, then we will express it through our actions, so when God gives us His righteousness and declares us to be righteous, He is also declaring us to be someone who expresses His righteousness through our actions in accordance with His instructions for how to do that found in His Law. We have not received the righteousness of God in order to hide it under a bushel, but in order to let it shine through our actions. Jesus expressed the character traits of the Father through His actions and what that looked like was complete obedience to the Mosaic Law, and our sanctification is about being made to be like him, to have and to express His character traits. ….
But what about living a Spirit-filled life? Being directed by God's Spirit rather than laws?

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
 
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Saint Steven

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There is no "but" in John 1:17 and in 1:16, it says grace upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added upon the grace of the Law. …
Here's how I read that. Grace is a substitute for the previous grace given. (the law)

John 1:16-17
Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
 
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Saint Steven

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All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and obey His Law and even Jesus began his ministry with that message (Matthew 4:17-23), so I don't think that it makes any sense to interpret this verses as warning us that if we repent and follow what Christ taught by word and by example that we will be alienated from Christ and fall from grace, especially given everything else that is said about grace in the Bible. In Psalms 119:29, was David wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace? In Titus 2:11-14, does our salvation involve being trained by grace to fall from grace? In Romans 1:5, have we received grace in order to bring about our fall from grace? No, the problem was that they were trying to become justified by works of the law instead of by faith. ….
I think the Apostle is saying that the law and grace are incompatible. To be under the law is to not be under grace.

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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If that is true, then why don't you answer the question? Instead of implying that I am a liar.

You have no proof that God's law is limited to, or defined as, the Ten Commandments.

Steve I never said you are a liar or was I implying such. I am sure you are sincere and believe what you are saying. Do I believe it is true? Well no and this is why I have posted scripture as a help to you only. Nothing more and nothing less.

You said there is no proof that God's 10 Commandments defines sin. You were then posted scripture proofs in the writings of JAMES, JOHN and PAUL who all agree together and define sin as breaking any of God's 10 Commandments even quoting some of the 10 commandments proving the topic and context of conversation is the 10 Commandments which define sin. *JAMES 2:8-12; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 from post # 236 linked

You then say that I am limiting sin to God's LAW. This is something I have never said or claimed. Sin is unbelief and rejecting God's WORD which includes the 10 Commandments which is the word of God (Exodus 20:1).

Hope this helps clear up any misunderstanding :oldthumbsup:
 
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Saint Steven

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Steve I never said you are a liar or was I implying such. I am sure you are sincere and believe what you are saying. Do I believe it is true? Well no and this is why I have posted scripture as a help to you only. Nothing more and nothing less.

You said there is no proof that God's 10 Commandments defines sin. You were then posted scripture proofs in the writings of JAMES, JOHN and PAUL who all agree together and define sin as breaking any of God's 10 Commandments even quoting some of the 10 commandments proving the topic and context of conversation is the 10 Commandments which define sin. *JAMES 2:8-12; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 from post # 236 linked

You then say that I am limiting sin to God's LAW. This is something I have never said or claimed. Sin is unbelief and rejecting God's WORD which includes the 10 Commandments which is the word of God (Exodus 20:1).

Hope this helps clear up any misunderstanding :oldthumbsup:
So, you agree with my premise then. That's not what I expected you to say. The Ten Commandments do not define sin.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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So, you agree with my premise then. That's not what I expected you to say. The Ten Commandments do not define sin.

Hello Steven,

Not sure why you think I agree with your premise. Did you read the post above yours? The title of your OP is ...

"Do the Ten Commandments define sin? (nope)"

God's WORD disagrees with this statement as it indeed defines sin as breaking any of God's 10 Commandments. Saying that the 10 Commandments do not define sin is going against God's WORD where JAMES, JOHN and PAUL all agree together and define sin as breaking any of God's 10 Commandments. They even quote some of the 10 commandments proving the topic and context of conversation is the 10 Commandments which define sin. *JAMES 2:8-12; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 from post # 236 linked


Hope this helps
 
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Saint Steven

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Hello Steven,

Not sure why you think I agree with your premise. Did you read the post above yours? The title of your OP is ...

"Do the Ten Commandments define sin? (nope)"

God's WORD disagrees with this statement as it indeed defines sin as breaking any of God's 10 Commandments. Saying that the 10 Commandments do not define sin is going against God's WORD where JAMES, JOHN and PAUL all agree together and define sin as breaking any of God's 10 Commandments. They even quote some of the 10 commandments proving the topic and context of conversation is the 10 Commandments which define sin. *JAMES 2:8-12; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 from post # 236 linked


Hope this helps
No, "God's WORD" disagrees with you.
The scriptures you provided prove my point. It seemed we were in agreement.
- James 2:8-12, includes the royal law from Lev. 19:18 (outside the TCs)
- Romans 7:7, references "the law", which is not limited to the TCs
- 1 John 3:4, also references "the law", which is not limited to the TCs

My point is that the Ten Commandments are incomplete as a definition of sin, not to mention incorrect. The TCs were given to the Israelites alone through Moses.

Furthermore...
It seems that you only read the title of the OP, not the OP itself. It's not long. Here it is again.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you believe the Ten Commandments define sin, you have left yourself lots of wiggle room.

These sins are not covered under the TCs.
- Pride
- Greed
- Envy
- Wrath, Fits of Rage
- Lust
- Gluttony
- Sloth
- Dishonesty, Deception
- Impurity, Debauchery
- Witchcraft, Sorcery
- Hatred, Indifference
- Jealousy
- Showing Favoritism, Prejudice and Discrimination
- Selfish Ambition, Self-Centeredness
- Withholding Remedy to Human or Animal Needs
- Drunkenness, Drug Abuse
- Fornication, Sodomy, inappropriate behavior with animals
- Discord, Dissensions, Factions
- Unbelief, Disbelief, Agnosticism, Atheism
- Etc.

The definition of sin is not limited to the Ten Commandments.
The definition of sin is not limited to the Books of the Law.
The definition of sin is not limited to the Old Testament.
The definition of sin is not even limited to the entire Bible.

Okay, back to your wiggling.
 
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Does the original commandments verify that? What is work for all these individuals? Bonus question: Can you find the wife in this commandment?

Exodus 20:8-11
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Original text has word ”labor”. It is from word that means also “serve”. And the word “work” can be translated to mean business. That is why I think it doesn’t mean for example that person should stop eating, drinking or breathing, which all could be counted working, if everything person does, is counted working.
 
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Saint Steven

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Original text has word ”labor”. It is from word that means also “serve”. And the word “work” can be translated to mean business. That is why I think it doesn’t mean for example that person should stop eating, drinking or breathing, which all could be counted working, if everything person does, is counted working.
Strong's No.: H4399
Hebrew: מלאכה
Transliteration: melâ'kâh
Pronunciation: mel-aw-kaw'
Definition: From the same as H4397; properly {deputyship} that {is} ministry; generally employment (never servile) or work (abstractly or concretely); also property (as the result of labor): - {business} + {cattle} + {industrious} {occupation} (+ {-pied}) + {officer} thing ({made}) {use} (manner of) work ({[-man]} -manship).
Occurences:
business(12) cattle(1) goods(2) labour(1)
made(1) occupation(1) stuff(1) thing(1)
use(1) work(124) workmanship(5) works(3)
 
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James Richards

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No, "God's WORD" disagrees with you.
The scriptures you provided prove my point. It seemed we were in agreement.
- James 2:8-12, includes the royal law from Lev. 19:18 (outside the TCs)
- Romans 7:7, references "the law", which is not limited to the TCs
- 1 John 3:4, also references "the law", which is not limited to the TCs

My point is that the Ten Commandments are incomplete as a definition of sin, not to mention incorrect. The TCs were given to the Israelites alone through Moses.

Furthermore...
It seems that you only read the title of the OP, not the OP itself. It's not long. Here it is again.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you believe the Ten Commandments define sin, you have left yourself lots of wiggle room.

These sins are not covered under the TCs.
- Pride
- Greed
- Envy
- Wrath, Fits of Rage
- Lust
- Gluttony
- Sloth
- Dishonesty, Deception
- Impurity, Debauchery
- Witchcraft, Sorcery
- Hatred, Indifference
- Jealousy
- Showing Favoritism, Prejudice and Discrimination
- Selfish Ambition, Self-Centeredness
- Withholding Remedy to Human or Animal Needs
- Drunkenness, Drug Abuse
- Fornication, Sodomy, inappropriate behavior with animals
- Discord, Dissensions, Factions
- Unbelief, Disbelief, Agnosticism, Atheism
- Etc.

The definition of sin is not limited to the Ten Commandments.
The definition of sin is not limited to the Books of the Law.
The definition of sin is not limited to the Old Testament.
The definition of sin is not even limited to the entire Bible.

Okay, back to your wiggling.
Lust is covered by the Ten Commandments:

For I would not have known lust except the law had said: Thou shalt not covet Rom7:7
 
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Saint Steven

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Lust is covered by the Ten Commandments:

For I would not have known lust except the law had said: Thou shalt not covet Rom7:7
Sorry, my list is NIV.
But I'll give you a bonus point.
Can you find the other two dozen or so in the TCs?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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No, "God's WORD" disagrees with you.

Not at all Steve, God's WORD was posted and it does not agree with you. As PAUL, JAMES and JOHN all agree together in the NEW TESTAMENET if you break any of God's 10 Commandments you commit sin (Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4)

The scriptures you provided prove my point. It seemed we were in agreement.
- James 2:8-12, includes the royal law from Lev. 19:18 (outside the TCs)

No it does not prove your point. Jesus says on these two great commandments [Love to God and Love to man] hang all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40).

Paul says in Romans 13:8-10 that Love to your neighbore is summed up in commandments 5 to 10 and quotes them in the same scriptures saying that LOVE fulfilled these laws. Or ESTABLISHES these laws in the heart of those who believe and follow God's WORD (Romans 3:31).

This is the NEW COVENANT promise to love and love fulfills Gods LAW (10 commandments) Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10. Romans 3:31.

- Romans 7:7, references "the law", which is not limited to the TCs

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: for I had not known lust, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

Yep seems like PAUL is telling us that if we breakin any of God's 10 Commandments we commit sin. This disagrees with your OP title that God's 10 Commandments do not define what sin is.

ROMANS 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Yep there goes PAUL again telling us the purpose of GOD'S 10 Commandments is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of sin. This connect with what Paul says latter in Romans 7:7.

God's WORD teaches that if we break any of the 10 Commandments we commit sin.

- 1 John 3:4, also references "the law", which is not limited to the TCs. My point is that the Ten Commandments are incomplete as a definition of sin, not to mention incorrect.

This is just a wiggle argument as your trying to wiggle out of acknowledging that the scriptures teach that breaking any of God's 10 Commandments is sin.

Who said that breaking God's 10 Commandments is the full definition of what sin is?

The TCs were given to the Israelites alone through Moses.

Who is God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT? It is all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL (Romans 11:16-27). If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

Furthermore...
It seems that you only read the title of the OP, not the OP itself. It's not long. Here it is again.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you believe the Ten Commandments define sin, you have left yourself lots of wiggle room.

These sins are not covered under the TCs.
- Pride
- Greed
- Envy
- Wrath, Fits of Rage
- Lust
- Gluttony
- Sloth
- Dishonesty, Deception
- Impurity, Debauchery
- Witchcraft, Sorcery
- Hatred, Indifference
- Jealousy
- Showing Favoritism, Prejudice and Discrimination
- Selfish Ambition, Self-Centeredness
- Withholding Remedy to Human or Animal Needs
- Drunkenness, Drug Abuse
- Fornication, Sodomy, inappropriate behavior with animals
- Discord, Dissensions, Factions
- Unbelief, Disbelief, Agnosticism, Atheism
- Etc.

The definition of sin is not limited to the Ten Commandments.
The definition of sin is not limited to the Books of the Law.
The definition of sin is not limited to the Old Testament.
The definition of sin is not even limited to the entire Bible.

Okay, back to your wiggling.

You need to read Matthew 5 and what Jesus says about sin originating in the heart. Most of what you have presented here is root of sin that comes out of the heart and is why we need a new one. All of the above have their root origin in breaking one of more of the 10 Commandments.

No one has ever said that only breaking God's 10 Commandment is sin. If we break any of God's WORD it is sin. To him that knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin (James 4:17).

Your trying to make an argument that no one is arguing against as a distraction to wiggle out of acknowledging that if you break any of God's 10 Commandments you commit sin (James 2:10-11)

...................

SOME SERIOUS QUESTIONS TO PRAY ABOUT

Now let's stop this wiggling and let me ask a serious question in relation to the title of your OP.

Q1. IS IT A SIN TO BREAK GOD'S 1O COMMANDMENTS?
[HINT: ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; ROMANS 3:20; 1 JOHN 3:4]

Q2. IS SOMEONE IN A SAVED STATE BEFORE GOD IF THEY ARE CONTINUING TO PRACTICE KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN OR AN UNSAVED STATE?

[HINT: HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; 1 JOHN 2:3-4]

..................

Look forward to your response.

May God help you as you seek him through his WORD. :wave:
 
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Saint Steven

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The title "the Ten Commandments" is nowhere to be found in the New Testament.
Yes, it's that important.

- The gospel writers did not use the term.
- It does not appear in the Acts of the Apostles.
- Nor the book of Romans.
- None of the epistles names the Ten as a group.
- The only exception is a reference to the ministry that brought death
which was "engraved in letters on stone". (the TCs) The transitory ministry
of condemnation that has no glory now. The letter of the law that kills.

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
 
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Saint Steven

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And yes, I have heard the counter-argument. That all the Ten Commandments are found in the New Testament. I've been through the list. Just a lot of fluff, provided for those who want to believe it, for those who will not check the references to see what is and isn't there.

The law is a singular thing.
You are either under all of it, or you are under none of it.

Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

1 Timothy 1:8-11
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The title "the Ten Commandments" is nowhere to be found in the New Testament.
Yes, it's that important.
- The gospel writers did not use the term.
- It does not appear in the Acts of the Apostles.
- Nor the book of Romans.
- None of the epistles names the Ten as a group.
- The only exception is a reference to the ministry that brought death
which was "engraved in letters on stone". (the TCs) The transitory ministry
of condemnation that has no glory now. The letter of the law that kills.

Well that is a smart argument leaving a lot of room for wiggling. So your argument now is that because the words "The 10 Commandments" is not used in the new Testament therefore the scripture that say God's commandments or God's LAW cannot be talking about the 10 commandments?

There are many different laws discussed in the bible.

-Ceremoniall law,
-Mosaic law,
-God's law
-Law of the Spirit
-Civil law
-Levitical laws
-Sanitary laws
-Dietry laws

So how do we know what laws are discussed in scripture when any of these laws are discussed in God's WORD under law or commandment? It is very easy. What is the topic of conversation and the within scripture and chapter context of discussion.

Now you your argument here is because the words "the Ten Commandments" are not being used in the NEW TESTAMENT therefore "the ten commandments" are not referred to in the NEW TESTAMENT. Let's test your claim if this is true or false...

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: for I had not known lust, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

Now here PAUL is talking about "THE LAW". Now what law are we talking about? As you say the words "the Ten Commandments" are not being used. Is the scripture talking about the 10 Commandments? What is the within scripture context and topic of conversation?

" I HAD NOT KNOWN WHAT SIN WAS EXCEPT BY THE LAW; for I had not know lust, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

Now what law says; YOU SHALL NOT COVET?

EXODUS 20:17 [17] YOU SHALL NOT COVET your neighbor's house, you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is your neighbor's.

Woops there it is. The LAW PAUL is talking about is?

THE 10 COMMANDMENTS. Paul is saying he did not know what sin was until God's 10th Commandment said you shall not Covet.

Guess that argument did not work out to well for you Steve? No more room to wiggle.

Just beause the words "the Ten Commandments" are not used in the NEW TESTAMENT does not not mean the writers of the NEW TESTAMENT are not talking about the Ten Commandments when they are referring to God's LAW and quoting the Ten Commandments.

..............

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
[9], But if ye have respect to persons, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS .
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

Now which law is JAMES talking about when he is referncing God's LAW of LOVE to our neighbore? Jesus and Paul say on these two commandments [Love to God and Love to Man] hand all the LAW and the prophets. Paul says in Romans 13:9 that LOVE somes up the first 5-10 of God's 10 Commandments. Now in James 2:9-11 God's WORD says that in v10 if we keep ALL of the law but break one then we stand guilty before God as if we have broken them all. What laws is James using as his example? DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY and DO NOT KILL.

Same question again. What LAW is DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY and DO NOT KILL?

EXODUS 20:14 [13] You shall not KILL
EXODUS 20:14 [14] You shall not commit adultery.

Yep there they are they are James is talking about "the Ten Commandments" James is quoting the 6th and 7th Commandment from the 10 Commandments. Once again just beause the words "the Ten Commandments" are not used in the NEW TESTAMENT does not not mean the writers of the NEW TESTAMENT are not talking about the Ten Commandments when they are referring to God's LAW and quoting the Ten Commandments.

..............

Maybe one more example? There are many more examples but let's use one more from Paul to save time time.

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: FOR HE THAT HAS LOVED ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Yep here is that term "the LAW" being used again. Now what law are we talking about this time? What is the within scripture and chapter topic of conversation? It is God's 2nd great commandments of LOVE that Jesus says all the law and the prophets hang (Matthew 22:36-40). Paul says that this law sums up the 5th to 10th Commandments of our duty of LOVE to our neighbore, quoting that You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet. Paul says that the 2nd great commandments are summing up these laws to our neighbore v9. What law is the topic of discussion? Where are these laws found in God's WORD?

EXODUS 20:12 Honor your father and your mother
EXODUS 20:13, You shall not kill.
EXODUS 20:14, You shall not commit adultery.
EXODUS 20:15, You shall not steal.
EXODUS 20:16, You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
EXODUS 20:17, You shall not covet

No doubt about it Paul's reference to "the LAW" here again is...

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

Just beause the words "the Ten Commandments" are not used in the NEW TESTAMENT does not not mean the writers of the NEW TESTAMENT are not talking about the Ten Commandments when they are referring to God's LAW and quoting the Ten Commandments.

Now Steve, just because the words "the Ten Commandments" are not being used in the NEW TESTAMENT you do not really believe that the scriptures are not talking abour the TEN COMMANDMENTS now do you?

2 Corinthians 3:6-11 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Love these scriptures Steve, but you interpret them as meaning something they do not say. They are not saying God's Ten Commandments are abolished they are saying we are in the NEW COVENANT and the letter of the LAW is now in the SPIRIT of the law and the letter on stone has been transferred to the fleshly tables of the heart through faith that works by LOVE in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.

Well there we go Steve, no more room to wiggle.

May God help you are you seek him through his WORD :wave:
 
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LoveGodsWord

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And yes, I have heard the counter-argument. That all the Ten Commandments are found in the New Testament. I've been through the list. Just a lot of fluff, provided for those who want to believe it, for those who will not check the references to see what is and isn't there.

Not really Steve. ALL of God's commandments are all through the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures and there is not one scripture to say that any of them have been abolished.

GOD'S TEN COMMANDMENTS IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT

1. NO ONE/NOTHING BEFORE GOD


OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCE: "I am the LORD thy God, Which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me." (Exodus 20:2-3)

NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCES
: Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. " (Matthew 4:10; Luke 4:8)

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.Ye cannot serve God and mammon." (Matthew 6:24)

...............

2. DO NOT COMMIT IDOLATRY

OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCE: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous GOD, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fouth generation of them that hate Me; And shewing mercy unto thousands who love Me, and keep my commandments." (Exodus 20:4-6)

NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCES:
"But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols"(Acts 15:20)

"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" (Acts 17:29,30)

" I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat." (1 Corinthians 5:11)

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9,10)

Neither be ye idolaters. (1 Corinthians 10:7)

Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. (1 Corinthians 10:14)

Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led." (1 Corinthians 12:2)

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? (2 Corinthians 6:16)

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21)

"For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." (Ephesians 5:5) [This verse and the next both show the connection between covetousness and idolatry - when you covet something, it becomes your idol, and therefore your god (breaking the 1st commandment also)]

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry. (Colossians 3:5)

how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God. (1 Thessalonians 1:9)

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. (1 John 5:21)

And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk. (Revelation 9:20)

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8)

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. (Revelation 22:15)

...............

3. DO NOT USE GOD'S NAME IN VAIN

OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCE: Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain. (Exodus 20:7)

NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCES: "Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. (Matthew 6:9; Luke 11:2)

I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. (Matthew 12:36)

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Matthew 15:8-9)

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. (Matthew 23:9)

that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. (1 Timothy 6:1)

...............

4. REMEMBER THE SEVENTH DAY SABBATH TO KEEP IT HOLY


OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCE: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it." (Exodus 20:8-11)

NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCES: "For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day." (Matthew 12:8; Luke 6:5) [So the Sabbath is the TRUE Lord's Day]

it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. (Matthew 12:12)

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day. (Matthew 24:20)

they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he (Jesus) entered into the synagogue, and taught. (Mark 1:21)

And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. (Mark 2:27-28) [Notice: The Sabbath is NOT just for Jews, or Israelites, or Hebrews, or Semites (descendants of Shem), but FOR ALL MANKIND]

And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach (Mark 6:2)

And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day (Luke 4:16)

(Jesus) taught them on the sabbath days. (Luke 4:31)

AFTER JESUS' DEATH, HIS DISCIPLES OBSERVED THE SABBATH:

And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment." (Luke 23:55-56) [ This occured after Jesus' death obviously, which is when the false teachers claim the law was done away. They say the law was "nailed to the cross", but His disciples obviously didn't believe that, as we see here, they "rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment"]

when they (the apostles) departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day." (Acts 13:14)

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath." (Acts 13:42) [Notice: the Gentiles (non-jews) wanted to hear the word of God on the next Sabbath. Paul DID NOT tell them, "Come back tomorrow, the first day of the week, because that's the day us Christians keep." He had them return the following SABBATH]

And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. (Acts 13:44)

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. (Acts 15:21)

And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made. (Acts 16:13)

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures. (Acts 17:2)

And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. (Acts 18:4)

For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. (Hebrews 4:4) [See Ephesians 5:1 where it states that we are to be imitators of God.]

There remaineth therefore a SABBATH Rest [See margin: Greek word is "Sabbatismos" which means "Sabbath-keeping"] to the people of God." (Hebrews 4:9)

For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD." (Isaiah 66:22-23) [I realize this is an OT scripture, BUT as you can clearly see here, this is dealing with the NEW heavens and earth (after Christ's return) and it states that ALL shall keep the Sabbath then.

It seems quite preposterous, that God would give the seventh day Sabbath to mankind at creation (Genesis 2:1-3), re-introduce it to Israel BEFORE Sinai - after they lost sight of it in captivity (Exodus 16:4-23; 27-29), codify it at Sinai (Exodus 20:1-17) having all His people observe it, including Christ, then change it to Sunday, just to change it back to Friday sunset - Saturday sunset.

THE SABBATH HAS NEVER CHANGED AND IS STILL TO BE OBSERVED!

[See SHADOW laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT in COL 2 CLICK ME]

to be continued...
 
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