• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Do Sabbath Keepers KEEP the Sabbath?

ralliann

christian
Jun 27, 2007
8,230
2,592
✟275,384.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Jesus Christ is now our High Priest. Hebrews states what He is doing. He is pleading the case of His followers before God covering those written in the book of life with His blood. When He is done,

Rev_16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev_21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

At that point everyone will have made their decisions---no changing their minds after that:

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

We have communion service along with the foot washing.


I have researched books before there was an internet---today it is much easier--and way faster. I research old books not written by my denomination--for we did not exist until 1866. I have read Catholic, Mormon, Christian Science, not much on Oriental orthodox, but you name it, I've probably researched it. Years ago, before coming back to God, I had started to get into the occult and had just bought my deck of Tarot cards. Tossed those puppies!

Peter is not talking to the 12 only:

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

There is no record of Peter having been in Rome. Paul set up the church there.
Whether Peter was in Rome matters none to me. I am more concerned with the structure and role of the ekklesia as a priesthood. Jesus was speaking to the twelve.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,820
74
Las Vegas
✟263,478.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Whether Peter was in Rome matters none to me. I am more concerned with the structure and role of the ekklesia as a priesthood. Jesus was speaking to the twelve.


Sorry, but I can find no priesthood when reading the bible! I do not follow a priesthood. I can offer you no insights into a priesthood, for I can not find one in the NT.
 
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,947
2,355
90
Union County, TN
✟834,411.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
JESUS WAS QUOTING THE OT---as He often did And it was esus that created the earth and sanctified the Sabbath at creation.
I agree, Jesus was born under the old covenant law. His teachings were to those under the same laws. At Jesus death, Israel was released from the Sinai covenant. He didn't leave Israel and all mankind without laws. He gave us a new and better covenant at the same time the old covenant was abrogated.


Deu_10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deu_11:13 And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,
Deu_13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu_26:16 This day the LORD thy God hath commanded thee to do these statutes and judgments: thou shalt therefore keep and do them with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Pardon for me not understanding where you stand on the issue of whether or not Jesus gave us a new commandment.
 
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,820
74
Las Vegas
✟263,478.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
I agree, Jesus was born under the old covenant law. His teachings were to those under the same laws. At Jesus death, Israel was released from the Sinai covenant. He didn't leave Israel and all mankind without laws. He gave us a new and better covenant at the same time the old covenant was abrogated.


Pardon for me not understanding where you stand on the issue of whether or not Jesus gave us a new commandment.


Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
He did not say these are the only commandments. On these 2 hang all the law and the prophets. The 1st 4 has to so with our duty to God, the last 6 our duty to man.

What was done away with was the Mosaic law, the Levitical laws. He is the fulfillment of those. The 10 were placed in the ark. The ark was a copy of the ark in heaven. It is the ark of the testimony--the testament is the 10. It is the very seat of God. And it is still in heaven.
Rev_11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

We will still have the Sabbath on the New Earth.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Greengardener
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,947
2,355
90
Union County, TN
✟834,411.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
He did not say these are the only commandments. On these 2 hang all the law and the prophets. The 1st 4 has to so with our duty to God, the last 6 our duty to man.
Jesus under the law teaching those under the law. The new covenant was not ratified as of yet, so Jesus was teaching Jews from the Torah. What He said was truth for those under the law. Christians are not under the Sinai covenant now are we? Would Jesus be teaching the Sinai covenant laws to us? Why would He be teaching the old law to us after ratifying the new covenant at Calvary with His own blood? Why do SDAs try to teach old covenant laws to us when we are not under the old covenant? May I remind you that Gentiles were never subject to the laws of the Sinai covenant. Why would SDAs try to put Gentiles under the laws of the Sinai covenant when God didn't even do it?

What was done away with was the Mosaic law, the Levitical laws.
SDAs have taught you a fallacy bud.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The meaning of the word fulfill is: bring to an end. Indeed Jesus did just that at Calvary where He ratified the new and better covenant with better promises. The old passed away when the new took its place.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Allow me to paraphrase verse18 for you: I tell you this, nothing, not the least amount of the Sinai covenant laws will cease being our laws until I bring them to an end.

Jesus ended the covenant with its laws, so how can you try to tell us that only the Levitical laws were done away?

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Again, Jesus was teaching Jews under the Sinai covenant. Jesus was teaching the truth for that time. Jesus never indicated that the laws concerning the priesthood would end and the remainder of the covenant remain for all mankind.


He is the fulfillment of those.
I beg to differ with you. Jesus is the fulfillment of all of the Sinai covenant. He wrote to the Corinthians telling them that the 10 commandment laws given to Israel at Sinai by Moses came to an end. When we put Mat5:17-19 together with 2Cor 3:7-11 we come up with one proving the other. 2Cor3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11
For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Paul called what was written on tables of stone "the ministry of death". Why would he write such a thing about God's 10 commandments to the children of Israel? It was because all the ten could do is condemn. There was no redemptive power in them and they did just that, condemned because the children of Israel were not able to keep all of them.
All the Sabbath could do is condemn because man is unable to meet the requirements of the fourth commandment. Is 58: 13
If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Verse 11 tells us that the 10 commandments were (past tense) done away. Did God leave mankind without any laws to live by? Not if you believe in the words of Jesus. In JN 15 we read where Jesus gave us a new command to love others as He loves us. True love is when we are willing to lay down our lives for our fellow man. What a most beautiful law. Jesus didn't add the Sabbath obligation nor did He tell us we must observe any ritual law of the Sinai covenant. We are to believe and love.

The 10 were placed in the ark. The ark was a copy of the ark in heaven. It is the ark of the testimony--the testament is the 10. It is the very seat of God. And it is still in heaven.
Rev_11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Do you have proof of what is in the Ark in Heaven? What is Jesus "testament"?

We will still have the Sabbath on the New Earth.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Obviously, you would leave off the fact that Isaiah also wrote that after worship they would go out and tread among the dead bodies of those who didn't make it. Isaiah also wrote in chapter 65: 17 ‘See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice for ever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.
19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.

20 ‘Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach a hundred
will be considered accursed.

Are those verses also what you understand the New Earth will be like?
 
Upvote 0

ralliann

christian
Jun 27, 2007
8,230
2,592
✟275,384.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
He did not say these are the only commandments. On these 2 hang all the law and the prophets. The 1st 4 has to so with our duty to God, the last 6 our duty to man.
Yes these are what all the law hangs on. To me this means the goal of the "law" were these commands. The law from Sinai was the "WAY" in which the circumcision (Jews)were to carry out those commands. As they were judged by it, and uncircumcision (Gentiles) die apart from it.
What was done away with was the Mosaic law, the Levitical laws. He is the fulfillment of those.

Quite a few jots and tittles there passing from the law. Which would include the all the command to love the Lord thy God wouldn't it? But now we keep that command without "doing" it the way of Sinai .
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall
neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,820
74
Las Vegas
✟263,478.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Jesus under the law teaching those under the law. The new covenant was not ratified as of yet, so Jesus was teaching Jews from the Torah. What He said was truth for those under the law. Christians are not under the Sinai covenant now are we? Would Jesus be teaching the Sinai covenant laws to us? Why would He be teaching the old law to us after ratifying the new covenant at Calvary with His own blood? Why do SDAs try to teach old covenant laws to us when we are not under the old covenant? May I remind you that Gentiles were never subject to the laws of the Sinai covenant. Why would SDAs try to put Gentiles under the laws of the Sinai covenant when God didn't even do it?


SDAs have taught you a fallacy bud.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The meaning of the word fulfill is: bring to an end. Indeed Jesus did just that at Calvary where He ratified the new and better covenant with better promises. The old passed away when the new took its place.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Allow me to paraphrase verse18 for you: I tell you this, nothing, not the least amount of the Sinai covenant laws will cease being our laws until I bring them to an end.

Jesus ended the covenant with its laws, so how can you try to tell us that only the Levitical laws were done away?

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Again, Jesus was teaching Jews under the Sinai covenant. Jesus was teaching the truth for that time. Jesus never indicated that the laws concerning the priesthood would end and the remainder of the covenant remain for all mankind.



I beg to differ with you. Jesus is the fulfillment of all of the Sinai covenant. He wrote to the Corinthians telling them that the 10 commandment laws given to Israel at Sinai by Moses came to an end. When we put Mat5:17-19 together with 2Cor 3:7-11 we come up with one proving the other. 2Cor3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11
For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Paul called what was written on tables of stone "the ministry of death". Why would he write such a thing about God's 10 commandments to the children of Israel? It was because all the ten could do is condemn. There was no redemptive power in them and they did just that, condemned because the children of Israel were not able to keep all of them.
All the Sabbath could do is condemn because man is unable to meet the requirements of the fourth commandment. Is 58: 13
If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Verse 11 tells us that the 10 commandments were (past tense) done away. Did God leave mankind without any laws to live by? Not if you believe in the words of Jesus. In JN 15 we read where Jesus gave us a new command to love others as He loves us. True love is when we are willing to lay down our lives for our fellow man. What a most beautiful law. Jesus didn't add the Sabbath obligation nor did He tell us we must observe any ritual law of the Sinai covenant. We are to believe and love.


Do you have proof of what is in the Ark in Heaven? What is Jesus "testament"?


Obviously, you would leave off the fact that Isaiah also wrote that after worship they would go out and tread among the dead bodies of those who didn't make it. Isaiah also wrote in chapter 65: 17 ‘See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice for ever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.
19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.

20 ‘Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach a hundred
will be considered accursed.

Are those verses also what you understand the New Earth will be like?

So far, this is a free country and you may believe whatever you want. If you think that Jesus would not have been telling we are not to steal, covet or any of the other commandments--you are free to think so. The new covenant is no more sacrifices and the laws are written in our hearts. No one said that 9 were written in the heart. Wherever they are written----they are written.

If you think that any none repentant sinner can enter into the presence of God---you're in for a big surprise. The new earth will be created over the dead bodies of the sinners---in other words---they will not be burning forever. Sin will be no more---sinners will be no more, nor will pain, nor tears----as long as some sinner is burning--there is sin, there is pain and tears in the world. My idea of heaven do not include watching anyone being tormented in hell forever.


Exo 25:16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.
Exo_25:22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.
Exo_26:34 And thou shalt put the mercy seat upon the ark of the testimony in the most holy place.
Exo_27:21 In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.

Exo_25:9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.
Exo_25:40 And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.
Num_8:4 And this work of the candlestick was of beaten gold, unto the shaft thereof, unto the flowers thereof, was beaten work: according unto the pattern which the LORD had shewed Moses, so he made the candlestick.
Jos_22:28 Therefore said we, that it shall be, when they should so say to us or to our generations in time to come, that we may say again, Behold the pattern of the altar of the LORD, which our fathers made, not for burnt offerings, nor for sacrifices; but it is a witness between us and you.


After the pattern of the tabernacle is not after the pattern of any earthly tabernacle---for there were none.
The sanctuary was built according to the heavenly sanctuary.

Rev_11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.


What is sin? What does God call sin?
Joh_8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Rom_3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom_3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom_6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom_6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom_6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom_6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom_6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom_6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom_6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Sin is death---to not sin is life. When you have Jesus in your heart, the body dies to sin--we will keep His commandments because we are saved---not in order to be saved.

It is silly to think the 4th commandment can not be kept! God doesn't tell you not to do something, or to do solmething, without giving you the opower to do so! He does not leave anyone powerless to do His will, He will enable. The law is a mirror of your sins--which leads to death. Through the grace of Jesus we overcome sin unto life eternal.

Do you seriously think that an unrepentant murderer will enter His presences? But the only commandment that anyone has any trouble about, the one everyone wants to forget---is the very same one that God says "Remember." It changes people's lifestyle--it is inconvenient.
 
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,947
2,355
90
Union County, TN
✟834,411.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So far, this is a free country and you may believe whatever you want. If you think that Jesus would not have been telling we are not to steal, covet or any of the other commandments--you are free to think so.
You are doing some very shallow thinking concerning my posts my friend. Is it not true that if we love others as Jesus loves us we will do absolutely nothing to harm them in any way? So, will I steal from those I love, will I covet, will I slander? Think of any word that deals with morality and I will not do what the word indicates. Love replaces so much more than the thou shalt nots.

The new covenant is no more sacrifices and the laws are written in our hearts. No one said that 9 were written in the heart. Wherever they are written----they are written.
Why did you even write that paragraph? Do you have any understanding about what the new covenant is about? Do you have any understanding about what the Sinai covenant was about?

If you think that any none repentant sinner can enter into the presence of God---you're in for a big surprise.
What made you write that to me? Have I indicated that those who do not accept Jesus as Savior are somehow going to sneak into Heaven?

The new earth will be created over the dead bodies of the sinners
Are you able to back up that statement? Where do you get this bologna.

---in other words---they will not be burning forever. Sin will be no more---sinners will be no more, nor will pain, nor tears----as long as some sinner is burning--there is sin, there is pain and tears in the world. My idea of heaven do not include watching anyone being tormented in hell forever.
If you know that to be true then stop quoting Isaiah 66 as the true happenings in the new Earth. You cannot have Sabbath observance without the other things Isaiah wrote about in chapters 65-66. And you cannot use Is 66 about the Sabbath to prove that we are now under Sabbath law. You cannot use the fact that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath and that it was made for man to prove we today are under some Sabbath law.


Exo 25:16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.
Exo_25:22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.
Exo_26:34 And thou shalt put the mercy seat upon the ark of the testimony in the most holy place.
Exo_27:21 In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.

Exo_25:9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.
Exo_25:40 And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.
Num_8:4 And this work of the candlestick was of beaten gold, unto the shaft thereof, unto the flowers thereof, was beaten work: according unto the pattern which the LORD had shewed Moses, so he made the candlestick.
Jos_22:28 Therefore said we, that it shall be, when they should so say to us or to our generations in time to come, that we may say again, Behold the pattern of the altar of the LORD, which our fathers made, not for burnt offerings, nor for sacrifices; but it is a witness between us and you.


After the pattern of the tabernacle is not after the pattern of any earthly tabernacle---for there were none.
The sanctuary was built according to the heavenly sanctuary.

Rev_11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.


Sin is death---to not sin is life. When you have Jesus in your heart, the body dies to sin--we will keep His commandments because we are saved---not in order to be saved.
Tell me bud how long have you been connected with the Adventists? Are you aware that what you wrote is not true.
There are two commandments tithing and Sabbath keeping that if you don't keep you will loose your eternal inheritance. This comes from the revered prophet Ellen White. [/QUOTE]
But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

It is silly to think the 4th commandment can not be kept!
it is???? Have you ever really kept it? Do you think thoughts that are not of a Holy nature? Do you have conversations with others that are not Sabbath related?
 
Upvote 0

Greengardener

for love is of God
Site Supporter
May 24, 2019
632
597
MidAtlantic
✟198,413.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Revelation speaks of everyone receiving a mark that signifies unity with the evil Beast.

Everyone knows that a new "mark" arose among Christianity in recent centuries that for the first time in history caused some people to break away from Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection. This unique mark could be the one foreseen in Revelation.

History demonstrates that while the Christian Church observed Sunday celebration of the Lord's Resurrection from the first century onward, a new practice began marking certain people starting in 1860, when a new sect began introducing a practice that did not originate among the early Church up to that time: a mass boycott of the Lord's Day.

I'm becoming convinced that the Saturday Worship that this group promotes instead of the Lord's Day is so unique in Christian history as to represent a possible Mark of the Beast. The sect that launched the new movement even has a special prophet: Ellen G. White. And we all know that a false prophet figures large in the book of Revelation.

All the ingredients for the Mark of the Beast are right here:

(1) a radical change to the standard worship within Christianity
(2) obscure prophetesses who foretell strange things and deceive large numbers of people in their web of failed prophecies
(3) a clear mark that is related to worship (Saturday and rejection of the Lord's Resurrection Day).

To think that Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection Day, which has been the constant practice of all Christianity for 2,000 years, might be the mark doesn't make any sense whatsoever. However, the radical departure from that true and constant faith offered by the Sabbatarian prophetesses may very well be the mark of the beast.


I'm not quite caught up with the posts, but when I got to this one in a long string of painful discordant posts, I wondered if it was time to speak. I can suggest several what-ifs but I'm not writing to further anyone's argument. These are just my thoughts, if you happen to want to know what they are as a different point of view. In the end, do what works for you. I have no interest in convincing or drawing a following, or of even defending my own position in an argument. In all honestly, I recently joined CF to listen in on what other believers were experiencing and to understand and occasionally participate in an intelligent debate. Hey, guys, I'm not sure if we are sticking to the last definition. Is this about exploring and explaining?

Not excusing anyone else, YeshuaHaDerekh, I have to agree, while you feel convinced that there is something that should be understood and if you show it again and again they will see it....my witness is that it could use a fuller explanation. Jesus used parables that He later explained to His own because He knew the religious leaders had blinded themselves. I'm not sure if you realize how your choice of communication styles is showing contempt for these people who could be brethren, so I urge you to be more clear with a different choice of words rather than repeating the same ones that didn't cause the explanation to go over in the first place. I too am interesting in your point. I too am frustrated that you aren't explaining it. I've read other posts enough to think there is a depth in you and a part of the picture that you along can share to Christ's Body that I'd like to tap into. Please help us see what you are suggesting.

Now, as you all know. I'm prone to long posts. Once I get the floor, I like to give enough information to flesh out the thought. So I'm starting here. This may take a while.

What if Jesus came to "flesh out" the Law instead of "fulfilling" it in the sense of doing away with it?

What if Jesus, as the Son of God (meaning being God), was so keenly aware of the INTENT of the Law (since He gave it) that there could be no change? (I'm thinking there are multiple scriptures to explain that God and Jesus don't change.) To further explore that idea, here are additional questions. What if the OT Law(s) were simply the administration of God's INTENT, which overall could be summed up in the 10 Commandments which warranted God's own finger writing them on stone, but the rest were a way to illustrate how those would be worked out in the situation of the people at that time? What if the story of God's INTENTION can still be seen in the playing out and respect for what God gave His people in the beginning. What if in the same way the Scribes, Lawyers, and Pharisees blinded themselves to the INTENTION of God and didn't see it when He Himself stood in their presence, we also risk blinding ourselves when we pick out the words and end up forming comfortable but erroneous conclusions. They themselves had years of traditions to pull from, and we also have years of Christian tradition. I often wonder how much we've lost by not pulling back the veil of traditions in order to see the Most Holy in His original intention for our relationship with Him.

This next question is a little tricky to write because I mean all respect to the authority of what God says. What if we are erring to focus on the written expressions (the language) of what God said instead of His larger INTENTION?

What IS His INTENTION? How does what we have in our hand and what the Holy Spirit brings to mind and what Jesus fleshed out in His life help us grasp the life-changing INTENTION of God?

With those questions answered, some of the confusion of how the words play out in the accounts in the Book is resolved. For one thing, history shows us that the original Church continued to keep the Feasts and the Sabbaths for at least 100 years, and that Constantine was very influential in making radical changes to the original understanding of how the Body should behave. This caused a rift between the Christians and the Olive Tree (using Paul's illustration). Somehow the Christian movement deviated increasingly through the years, so that by the time it got to us, Sunday was the standard, the Blue Laws were in effect, the traditions of Christmas and Easter were expected, and the whole of the former way of explaining this wonderful God-INTENTION story had been lost. Nobody recalled the Pesach, the real Sabbaths, purposes for the other Feasts, the dietary recommendations, even for the most part the study of OT for the wealth of stories, the prophecies related to history. In general, people were increasingly left without a clear picture of who God is and took liberties with their understanding. We still have areas of solidness, but increasingly the foundation, having been eroded long before we got here, is showing cracks.

To give a few examples of scriptures that get used to "explain" and justify the changes, here are a few more what-ifs.

What if the references to the first day of the week are easily understood to be the "first of the Weeks," the first of the Weeks counting down to Pentecost. All the support for a quick and easy transference from Saturday to Sunday as the Sabbath are removed. What if John, having a vision on the Lord's Day, was referencing the idea of that Great Day of the Lord, or maybe John was referencing the Sabbath, since Jesus did say that the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath?

What if Paul was intentionally referencing the Feasts in His letters to gentile congregations? What if Paul's discussions were not intended to be a source of doctrine but a commentary of how it looked at that time? We do know that historically the early churches looked like any of the many denominations roughly based on Judaism. To the Believers, it took a good bit of convincing that the Gentiles could be accepted, but that point was covered in the Jerusalem conference and the basics were provided that the Gentiles be encouraged to leave particular wrong doctrines and were referred to hear the rest of the story from the weekly available in the synagogue. All the support for a quick and easy transition from Judaism to ...well...Constantinism (not sure what to call it) has just been lost.

History seems to support the conclusions I've come to from the questions that I had to ask myself, but that doesn't make me the Expert. I'm simply offering them here to see if those will help the readers look at the Scriptures not as a book for making denominational points and then checking them off, but for seeing God's intention and then drawing near to Him and drawing nearer each other in the overwhelming love that He wants us to experience and live in.
 
Upvote 0

Greengardener

for love is of God
Site Supporter
May 24, 2019
632
597
MidAtlantic
✟198,413.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Again, you are erecting a straw man.

I have never claimed Sunday is now the Sabbath.

The "Radical Departure" is the Mass BOYCOTT of the Sunday Observance of our Lord's resurrection, which is indeed a modern day invention and has no roots in Apostolic teaching, thought or practice..


Excellent.
Keep the Saturday Sabbath...As Paul testifies you are free to do...there is nothing wrong with doing so.
The Saturday Sabbath is not erased, but Colossians 2:15-17 explicitly says it was a shadow and is no longer binding once Christ came.

Just Add Sunday to your worship calendar to Gather, Observe and Honor the Resurrection, following the practice and teaching of all the Apostles and 1900+ years of Apostolic Tradition.

It's not scary. You need not be afraid.

What if Paul, in addressing the Colossians, was actually encouraging them to have a stronger stance against the multitude of vain philosophies around them by reminding them that Jesus has triumphed over them all? Paul was, after all, a Sabbath-keeper and a Feast Keeper, and the influence of his encouragement of the Gentile congregations to at least understand those is evident. Since the Sabbath identified JHWH (God), I have a hard time imagining that Paul would have tossed it aside or encouraged the Gentile churches to do so. The possibility that we have misunderstood Paul's intent exists strongly here. Taking that thought a step further, I wonder what would be the motivation in creating a new set of "rules" outside of those tenets that God thought strongly enough about to write in stone. (I would suggest that there exists at least one adversary to God and man who might have a vested interest here.) Granted, these changes, whether transitions or transgressions, were done long before us. We can only start here and now with how we are responding to what God says and intends. While the keeping of any set of rules isn't the way anyone is saved from those rules or from the breaking of those rules, we do need to admit that His Word is a lamp to our path and His commandments are righteousness. The forgiveness offered in Jesus creates a situation for us to grow in grace toward a perfect man. What God says about an effective life (His commandments, statutes, Word, precepts, His law) may continue to be relevant to us as a definition of how that looks so we know how to maintain a path toward a narrow gate to life.
 
Upvote 0

Greengardener

for love is of God
Site Supporter
May 24, 2019
632
597
MidAtlantic
✟198,413.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
And still the Holy one of Israel, our Messiah said this while bringing salvation to the people of Israel.

Luke 21:24
Jerusalem will be trampled by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

27 And then they (Israel) will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, stand straight and lift up your heads, because your salvation is near!”

He speaks this to Israel. It regards Israel first and foremost. Israel and all attached to her through faith in Yeshua.

There is an end to the exiled, a return of God's promises to the people of Israel.

When God is done working with Israel who he scattered into the nations he will return to gather us back home. When the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled will your kingdoms come to a complete end or do the Gentile nations exist in heaven? Revelation 21:24

You are completely missing the Spirit of God's promises and the message of Messiah.

Luke 22
19 And when He had taken matzah and offered the bracha, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body, given for you. Do this in memory of Me.” 20 In the same way, He took the cup after the meal, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is poured out for you.

This was a passover seder btw.







33 No longer will each teach his neighbor
or each his brother, saying: ‘Know Adonai,’
for they will all know Me,
from the least of them to the greatest.”
it is a declaration of Adonai.

This is the ministry of the Spirit. He has come to the house of Israel, he is writing his laws upon our hearts. He is our God and we are his people, and we know him with an intimate relationship, because he forgives all of our sins and remembers them no more.

The new covenant, the fulfillment of the new covenant, when it comes to its fullness. Will be the restoration of Israel and all the world.

But I'm noticing that your problem is not so much with having a law written upon your heart. It is more concerned with the people of Israel and our identity and who we are in God and how we have been erased and how God has moved past us to get the Kingdom of God to you. These are the teachings of the anti-Semetic church fathers. These are the teachings that come to a mind when one rejects all things Jewish. These are the teachings of the devil. Who seeks to divide the Kingdom of God, to divide and conquer. God loves Israel with all his heart. God has made promises to Israel through Abraham. The same Abraham that you attach yourself to. This is what is meant by a divided house.

I understand my connection to the gentiles and to the nations and to you. I know who I am in Messiah. But you to not appear to understand your connection to Israel. And sadly, you have a very skewed understanding of our Messiah and his ministry of reconciliation.


You bring up essential points, Shimshon. The error was injected many years ago, and the traditions having endured for hundreds of years are what we have been raised with. They look like (but are NOT) solid ground for Truth. Thank you for pointing it out. Keep speaking it because it is true and needful. The olive ROOT sustains both God's chosen from Abraham's lineage and those of us who were called from all the nations and are blessed with being grafted in. The church at large has for the most part totally forgotten that part. It's as if what Jesus set out to do in the New Covenant was supposed to taste like matzo and lamb and looks like obedience and a life led by a very HOLY Spirit (who fully understands God's intentions), but Christianity has turned it into a salami and ham sandwich, calls it liberty, says it is good and that we now have the freedom to be apart from God's rule(s). I don't happen to think it's the fault of these brethren here, although you benefit them to point it out. It appears they haven't raised the questions in their mind about the faults of the tradition in which they first saw Jesus so that they can separate out and keep only that part that is holy. The reasoning of scriptures that comes to mind here: You shall LOVE the Lord your God and serve Him only; be holy as He is holy; without holiness no man shall see Him; called to be a kingdom and priests as a holy and peculiar people.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shimshon
Upvote 0

ralliann

christian
Jun 27, 2007
8,230
2,592
✟275,384.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
For one thing, history shows us that the original Church continued to keep the Feasts and the Sabbaths for at least 100 years, and that Constantine was very influential in making radical changes to the original understanding of how the Body should behave.
You are the second person to say these kinds of things. What history are you talking about?
Somehow the Christian movement deviated increasingly through the years, so that by the time it got to us, Sunday was the standard, the Blue Laws were in effect, the traditions of Christmas and Easter were expected, and the whole of the former way of explaining this wonderful God-INTENTION story had been lost.
Judaism also deviated as well. Christianity became an illegal sect in the empire. This imo is no small thing.

What if the references to the first day of the week are easily understood to be the "first of the Weeks," the first of the Weeks counting down to Pentecost. All the support for a quick and easy transference from Saturday to Sunday as the Sabbath are removed.
I am not so sure about this. The argument over this very day existed between the three major sects at the time. The Essenes and Sadducees disagreed with the Pharisees that the first day of weeks is the 16th, a festival Sabbath. They (Sadducees) believed it fell on the first Sabbath which happened to fall during the feast week of unleavened bread, the Essenes likewise believed the weeks began on a Sunday and ended on a Sunday .
Now I know in the Church there was a controversy early on concerning traditions about when this day was to be observed, but considering the sectarian nature of Judaism, the early Christians could have been celebrating the Lord's resurrection from those different traditions.
Then Christianity becoming "illegal" well.....You speak of blue laws and all that caused? Being an illegal religion took away the protection "Judaism" was given from Idol's. Given that, imo it is not hard to figure why Gentiles were to keep the decrees given in the synagogues concerning the nations. To keep the protection as long as they could for their Gentile converts.
Talk about Constantine? It was worse under Vespasian. How many Jews perverted the gospel to not lose their exemption from idol's and be classed an illegal religion by the new Sanhedrin ruled by the Pharisees? Constantine did not make Judaism illegal.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,820
74
Las Vegas
✟263,478.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
You are the second person to say these kinds of things. What history are you talking about?

Judaism also deviated as well. Christianity became an illegal sect in the empire. This imo is no small thing.

I am not so sure about this. The argument over this very day existed between the three major sects at the time. The Essenes and Sadducees disagreed with the Pharisees that the first day of weeks is the 16th, a festival Sabbath. They (Sadducees) believed it fell on the first Sabbath which happened to fall during the feast week of unleavened bread, the Essenes likewise believed the weeks began on a Sunday and ended on a Sunday .
Now I know in the Church there was a controversy early on concerning traditions about when this day was to be observed, but considering the sectarian nature of Judaism, the early Christians could have been celebrating the Lord's resurrection from those different traditions.
Then Christianity becoming "illegal" well.....You speak of blue laws and all that caused? Being an illegal religion took away the protection "Judaism" was given from Idol's. Given that, imo it is not hard to figure why Gentiles were to keep the decrees given in the synagogues concerning the nations. To keep the protection as long as they could for their Gentile converts.
Talk about Constantine? It was worse under Vespasian. How many Jews perverted the gospel to not lose their exemption from idol's and be classed an illegal religion by the new Sanhedrin ruled by the Pharisees? Constantine did not make Judaism illegal.


EARLY CHRISTIANS - 2nd Century
"The primitive Christians had a great veneration for the Sabbath, and spent the day in devotion and sermons. And it is not to be doubted but they derived this practice from the Apostles themselves, as appears by several scriptures to the purpose." "Dialogues on the Lord's Day," p. 189. London: 1701, By Dr. T.H. Morer (A Church of England divine).

EARLY CHRISTIANS - 2nd Century
"...The Sabbath was a strong tie which united them with the life of the whole people, and in keeping the Sabbath holy they followed not only the example but also the command of Jesus." "Geschichte des Sonntags," pp.13, 14

EARLY CHRISTIANS - 2nd Century
"The Gentile Christians observed also the Sabbath," Gieseler's "Church History," Vol.1, ch. 2, par. 30, 93.

EARLY CHRISTIANS - 2nd Century
"The primitive Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews;...therefore the Christians, for a long time together, did keep their conventions upon the Sabbath, in which some portions of the law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council." "The Whole Works" of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX,p. 416 (R. Heber's Edition, Vol XII, p. 416).

EARLY CHRISTIANS - 2nd Century
"It is certain that the ancient Sabbath did remain and was observed (together with the celebration of the Lord's day) by the Christians of the East Church, above three hundred years after our Saviour's death." "A Learned Treatise of the Sabbath," p. 77

Note: By the "Lord's day" here the writer means Sunday and not the true Sabbath," which the Bible says is the Sabbath. This quotation shows Sunday coming into use in the early centuries soon after the death of the Apostles. It illustrates the apostasy that Paul the Apostle foretold of when he spoke about a great "falling away" from the Truth that would take place soon after his death.

"From the apostles' time until the council of Laodicea, which was about the year 364, the holy observance of the Jews' Sabbath continued, as may be proved out of many authors: yea, notwithstanding the decree of the council against it." "Sunday a Sabbath." John Ley, p.163. London: 1640.
Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries - The Third Century A.D.


  • ------------------------------------------
    EGYPT (OXYRHYNCHUS PAPYRUS) (200-250 A.D.)
    "Except ye make the sabbath a real sabbath (sabbatize the Sabbath," Greek), ye shall not see the Father." "The oxyrhynchus Papyri," pt,1, p.3, Logion 2, verso 4-11 (London Offices of the Egypt Exploration Fund, 1898).
    EARLY CHRISTIANS-C 3rd
    "Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence: it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands." "The Anti-Nicene Fathers," Vol 7,p. 413. From "Constitutions of the Holy Apostles," a document of the 3rd and 4th Centuries.

    AFRICA (ALEXANDRIA) ORIGEN
    "After the festival of the unceasing sacrifice (the crucifixion) is put the second festival of the Sabbath, and it is fitting for whoever is righteous among the saints to keep also the festival of the Sabbath. There remaineth therefore a sabbatismus, that is, a keeping of the Sabbath, to the people of God (Hebrews 4:9)." "Homily on Numbers 23," par.4, in Migne, "Patrologia Graeca," Vol. 12,cols. 749, 750.

    PALESTINE TO INDIA (CHURCH OF THE EAST)
    As early as A.D. 225 there existed large bishoprics or conferences of the Church of the East (Sabbath-keeping) stretching from Palestine to India. Mingana, "Early Spread of Christianity." Vol.10, p. 460.

    INDIA (BUDDHIST CONTROVERSY), 220 A.D.)
    The Kushan Dynasty of North India called a famous council of Buddhist priests at Vaisalia to bring uniformity among the Buddhist monks on the observance of their weekly Sabbath. Some had been so impressed by the writings of the Old Testament that they had begun to keep holy the Sabbath. Lloyd, "The Creed of Half Japan," p. 23.

    EARLY CHRISTIANS
    "The seventh-day Sabbath was...solemnised by Christ, the Apostles, and primitive Christians, till the Laodicean Council did in manner quite abolish the observations of it." "Dissertation on the Lord's Day," pp. 33, 34
    ---------------------------------------------
Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries - The Fourth Century A.D.

  • -----------------------------------------------
    ITALY AND EAST-C 4th
    "It was the practice generally of the Easterne Churches; and some churches of the west...For in the Church of Millaine (Milan);...it seems the Saturday was held in a farre esteeme... Not that the Easterne Churches, or any of the rest which observed that day, were inclined to Iudaisme (Judaism); but that they came together on the Sabbath day, to worship Iesus (Jesus) Christ the Lord of the Sabbath." "History of the Sabbath" (original spelling retained), Part 2, par. 5, pp.73, 74. London: 1636. Dr. Heylyn.
    ORIENT AND MOST OF WORLD
    "The ancient Christians were very careful in the observance of Saturday, or the seventh day...It is plain that all the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival...Athanasius likewise tells us that they held religious assembles on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, Epiphanius says the same." "Antiquities of the Christian Church," Vol.II Book XX, chap. 3, sec.1, 66. 1137,1138.

    ABYSSINIA
    "In the last half of that century St. Ambrose of Milan stated officially that the Abyssinian bishop, Museus, had 'traveled almost everywhere in the country of the Seres' (China). For more than seventeen centuries the Abyssinian Church continued to sanctify Saturday as the holy day of the fourth commandment." Ambrose, DeMoribus, Brachmanorium Opera Ominia, 1132, found in Migne, Patrologia Latima, Vol.17, pp.1131,1132.

    ARABIA, PERSIA, INDIA, CHINA
    "Mingana proves that in 370 A.D. Abyssinian Christianity (a Sabbath keeping church) was so popular that its famous director, Musacus, travelled extensively in the East promoting the church in Arabia, Persia, India and China." "Truth Triumphanat,"p.308 (Footnote 27).

    ITALY-MILAN
    "Ambrose, the celebrated bishop of Milan, said that when he was in Milan he observed Saturday, but when in Rome observed Sunday. This gave rise to the proverb, 'When you are in Rome, do as Rome does.'" Heylyn, "The History of the Sabbath" (1612)

    SPAIN-COUNCIL ELVIRA (A.D.305)
    Canon 26 of the Council of Elvira reveals that the Church of Spain at that time kept Saturday, the seventh day. "As to fasting every Sabbath: Resolved, that the error be corrected of fasting every Sabbath." This resolution of the council is in direct opposition to the policy the church at Rome had inaugurated, that of commanding Sabbath as a fast day in order to humiliate it and make it repugnant to the people.

    SPAIN
    It is a point of further interest to note that in north-eastern Spain near the city of Barcelona is a city called Sabadell, in a district originaly inhabited. By a people called both "Valldenses" and Sabbatati."

    PERSIA-A.D. 335-375 (40 YEARS PERSECUTION UNDER SHAPUR II)
    The popular complaint against the Christians-"They despise our sungod, they have divine services on Saturday, they desecrate the sacred the earth by burying their dead in it." Truth Triumphant," p.170.

    PERSIA-A.D.335-375
    "They despise our sun-god. Did not Zorcaster, the sainted founder of our divine beliefs, institute Sunday one thousand years ago in honour of the sun and supplant the Sabbath of the Old Testament. Yet these Christians have divine services on Saturday." O'Leary, "The Syriac Church and Fathers," pp.83, 84.

    COUNCIL LAODICEA-A.D.365
    "Canon 16-On Saturday the Gospels and other portions of the Scripture shall be read aloud." "Canon 29-Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday, but shall work on that day; but the Lord's day they shall especially honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day." Hefele's "Councils," Vol. 2, b. 6.
    ===========================================
Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries - The Fifth Century A.D.

  • -------------------------------------------------
    THE WORLD
    "For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrated the sacred mysteries (the Lord's Supper) on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Allexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, refuse to do this." The footnote which accompanies the foregoing quotation explains the use of the word "Sabbath." It says: "That is, upon the Saturday. It should be observed, that Sunday is never called "the Sabbath' by the ancient Fathers and historians." Sacrates, "Ecclestical History," Book 5, chap. 22, p. 289.
    CONSTANTINOPLE
    "The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria." Socrates, "Ecclesiastical History," Book 7, chap.19.

    THE WORLD-AUGUSTINE, BISHOP OF HIPPO (NORTH AFRICA)
    Augustine shows here that the Sabbath was observed in his day "in the greater part of the Christian world," and his testimony in this respect is all the more valuable because he himself was an earnest and consistent Sunday-keeper. See "Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers," 1st Series, Vol.1, pp. 353, 354.

    POPE INNOCENT (402-417)
    Pope Sylvester (314-335) was the first to order the churches to fast on Saturday, and Pope Innocent (402-417) made it a binding law in the churches that obeyed him, (In order to bring the Sabbath into disfavour.) "Innocentius did ordain the Saturday or Sabbath to be always fasted." Dr. Peter Heylyn, "History of the Sabbath, Part 2, p. 44.

    THROUGH THE FIFTH CENTURY A.D.
    Down even to the fifth century the observance of the Jewish Sabbath was continued in the Christian church. "Ancient Christianity Exemplified," Lyman Coleman, ch. 26, sec. 2, p. 527.

    In Jerome's day (420 A.D.) the devoutest Christians did ordinary work on Sunday. "Treatise of the Sabbath Day," by Dr. White, Lord Bishop of Ely, p. 219.

    FRANCE
    "Wherefore, except Vespers and Nocturns, there are no public services among them in the day except on Saturday (Sabbath) and Sunday." John Cassian, A French monk, "Institutes," Book 3, ch. 2.

    AFRICA
    "Augustine deplored the fact that in two neighbouring churches in Africa one observes the seventh-day Sabbath, another fasted on it." Dr. Peter Heylyn, "The History of the Sabbath." p. 416.

    SPAIN (400 A.D.)
    "Ambrose sanctified the seventh day as the Sabbath (as he himself says). Ambrose had great influence in Spain, which was also observing the Saturday Sabbath." Truth Triumphant, p. 68.

    SIDONIUS (SPEAKING OF KING THEODORIC OF THE GOTHS, A.D. 454-526)
    "It is a fact that it was formerly the custom in the East to keep the Sabbath in the same manner as the Lord's day and to hold sacred assemblies: while on the other hand, the people of the West, contending for the Lord's day have neglected the celebration of the Sabbath." "Apollinaries Sidonli Epistolae," lib.1, 2; Migne, 57.

    CHURCH OF THE EAST
    "Mingana proves that in 410 Isaac, supreme director of the Church of the East, held a world council,-stimulated, some think, by the trip of Musacus,-attended by eastern delegates from forty grand metrop olitan divisions. In 411 he appointed a metropolitan director for China. These churches were sanctifying the seventh day."

    EGYPT
    "There are several cities and villages in Egypt where, contrary to the usage established elsewhere, the people meet together on Sabbath evenings, and, although they have dined previously, partake of the mysteries." Sozomen. "Ecclesiastical History Book 7, ch. 119
    ===========================================
    Thbere is a lot---a lot more.




 
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,820
74
Las Vegas
✟263,478.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
I'm skipping to the 20th century:


American Congregationalists: No authority in the New Testament for substitution of the first day for the seventh
"The current notion that Christ and His apostles authoritatively substituted the first day for the seventh, is absolutely without any authority in the New Testament." Dr. Lyman Abbott, in the Christian Union, June 26, 1890
Anglican: Nowhere commanded to keep the first day
"And where are we told in the Scriptures that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day. The reason why we keep the first of the week holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many other things, - not because the Bible, but because the church, has enjoined [commanded] it." Isaac Williams, Plain Sermons on the Catechism, Vol. 1, pp 334, 336.

Anglican/Episcopal: The Catholics changed it
"We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church of Christ." Episcopalian Bishop Symour, Why we keep Sunday.

Baptist: Sunday Sabbath not in the scriptures
"There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not on Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of truimph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the Seventh to the First day of the week, with all its duties, privileges and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament - absolutely not. There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the Seventh to the First day of the week...

"I wish to say that this Sabbath question, in this aspect of it, is the gravest and most perlexing question connected with Christian institutions which at present claims attention from Christian people; and the only reason that it is not a more disturbing element in Christian thought and in religious discussion is because the Christian world has settled down content on the conviction that some how a transference has taken place at the beginning of Christian history.

"To me it seems unaccountable that Jesus, during three years' discussion with His disciples, often conversing with them upon the Sabbath question, discussing it in some of its various aspects, freeing it from its false glosses [of Jewish traditions], never alluded to any transference of the day; also, that during forty days of His resurrection life, no such thing was intimated. Nor, so far as we know, did the Spirit, which was given to bring to their remembrance all things whatsoever that He had said unto them, deal with this question. Nor yet did the inspired apostles, in preaching the gospel, founding churches, counseling and instruction those founded, discuss or approach the subject.

"Of course, I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history as a religious day, as we learn from the Christian Fathers and other sources. But what a pity that it comes branded with the mark of paganism, and christened with the name of a sun god, when adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to protestantism!" Dr. Edward Hiscox, author of The Baptist Manual. From a photostatic copy of a notarized statement by Dr. Hiscox.

"There was never any formal or authoritative change from the Jewish seventh day Sabbath to the Christian first day observance" William Owen Carver, The Lord's Day in One Day p.49

Church of England: No warrant from scripture for the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday
"Neither did he(Jesus), or his disciples, ordain another Sabbath in the place of this, as if they had intended only to shift the day; and to transfer this honor to some other time. Their doctrine and their practise are directly contrary, to so new a fancy. It is true, that in some tract of time, the Church in honor of his resurrection, did set apart that day on the which he rose, to holy exercises: but this upon their own authority, and without warrant from above, that we can hear of; more then the generall warrant which God gave his Church, that all things in it be done decently, and in comely order." Dr. Peter Heylyn of the Church of England, quoted in History of the Sabbath, Pt 2, Ch.2, p7

Congregationalist: The Christian Sabbath' [Sunday] is not in the Scripture
"The Christian Sabbath' [Sunday] is not in the Scripture, and was not by the primitive [early Christian] church called the Sabbath." Timothy Dwight, Theology, sermon 107, 1818 ed., Vol. IV, p49 [Dwight (1752-1817) was president of Yale University from 1795-1817].

Disciples of Christ: It is all old wives' fables to talk of the 'change of the sabbath'
"If it [the Ten Commandments] yet exist, let us observe it... And if it does not exist, let us abandon a mock observance of another day for it. 'But,' say some, 'it was changed from the seventh to the first day.' Where? when? and by whom? - No, it never was changed, nor could it be, unless creation was to be gone through again: for the reason assigned [in Genesis 2:1-3] must be changed before the observance or respect to the reason, can be changed. It is all old wives' fables to talk of the 'change of the sabbath' from the seventh to the first day. If it be changed, it was that august personage changed it who changes times and laws ex officio, - I think his name is "Doctor Antichrist.'" Alexander Campbell, The Christian Baptist, February 2, 1824, vol 1, no. 7

Episcopal: Bible commandment says the seventh day
"The Bible commandment says on the seventh-day thou shalt rest. That is Saturday. Nowhere in the Bible is it laid down that worship should be done on Sunday." Phillip Carrington, quoted in Toronto Daily Star, Oct 26, 1949 [Carrington (1892-), Anglican archbishop of Quebec, spoke the avove in a message on this subject delivered to a packed assembly of clergymen. It was widely reported at the time in the news media].

Lutheran: They err in teaching Sunday Sabbath
But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel.....These churches err in their teaching, for scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect" John Theodore Mueller, Sabbath or Sunday, pp.15, 16

"We have seen how gradually the impression of the Jewish Sabbath faded from the mind of the Christian church, and how completely the newer thought underlying the observance of the first day took possesion of the church. We have seen that the Christian of the first three centuries never confused one with the other, but for a time celebrated both." The Sunday Problem, a study book by the Lutheran Church (1923) p.36

"They [Roman Catholics] allege the change of the Sabbath into the Lord's day, as it seemeth, to the Decalogue [the ten commandments]; and they have no example more in their mouths than they change of the Sabbath. They will needs have the Church's power to be very great, because it hath dispensed with the precept of the Decalogue." The Augsburg Confession, 1530 A.D. (Lutheran), part 2, art 7, in Philip Schaff, the Creeds of Christiandom, 4th Edition, vol 3, p64 [this important statement was made by the Lutherans and written by Melanchthon, only thirteen years after Luther nailed his theses to the door and began the Reformation].

"They [Roman Catholics] refer to the Sabbath Day, as having been changed into the Lord's Day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it seems. Neither is there any example whereof they make more than concerning the changing of the Sabbath Day. Great, say they, is the power of the Church, since it has dispensed with one of the Ten commandments!" Augsburg Confession of Faith,art. 28; written by Melanchthon and approved by Martin Luther, 1530; as published in The Book of Concord of the Evangelical Lutheran Church Henry Jacobs, editor (1911), p.63

Methodist: Jesus did not abolish the moral law - no command to keep holy the first day
The moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He Jesus did not take away. It was not the design of His coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which can never be broken...Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other." John Wesley, Sermons on Several Occasions, Vol.1, No. 25

"It is true that there is no positive command for infant baptism. Nor is there any for keeping holy the first day of the week. Many believe that Christ changed the Sabbath. But, from His own words, we see that He came for no such purpose. Those who believe that Jesus changed the Sabbath base it only on a supposition." Amos Binney, Theological Compendium, 1902 edition, pp 180-181, 171 [Binney (1802-1878), Methodist minister and presiding elder, whose Compendium was published for forty years in many languages, also wrote a Methodist New Testament Commentary].

"Take the matter of sunday. There are indications in the new testament as to how the church came to keep the first day of the week as its day of worship, but there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day." Harris Franklin Rall, Christian Advocate July 2, 1942 pg. 26

Moody Bible Institute: "Sabbath was before Sinai"
"I honestly believe that this commandment [the Sabbath commandment] is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated [abolilshed], but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. 'The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath' [mark 2:27]. It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was - in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

"The [Seventh-day] Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This Fourth Commandment [Exodus 20:8-11] begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath had already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they admit that the other nine are still binding? Dwight.L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting, 1898, pp.46-47 [D.L. Moody, (1837-1899) was the most famous evangelist of his time, and founder of the Moody Bible Institute].

"This Fourth is not a commandment for one place, or one time, but for all places and times." D.L. Moody, at San Francisco, Jan. 1st, 1881.

Presbyterian: Sunday kept the Gentiles happy
"Sunday being the first day of which the Gentiles solemnly adored that planet and called it Sunday, partly from its influence on that day especially, and partly in respect to its divine body (as they conceived it) the Christians thought fit to keep the same day and the same name of it, that they might not appear carelessly peevish, and by that means hinder the conversion of the Gentiles, and bring a greater prejudice that might be otherwise taken against the gospel" T.M. Morer, Dialogues on the Lord's Day

Roman Catholic: No such law in the Bible
"Nowhere in the bible do we find that Jesus or the apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Satuday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is, the seventh day of the week, Saturday. Today, most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Roman] church outside the bible." Catholic Virginian, Oct. 3, 1947

"You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctified." James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (1917 ed.), pp.72,73

"If protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church." Albert Smith, chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the cardinal in a letter of Feb. 10, 1920.

Question: "Have you not any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?"

Answer: "Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her - she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority" Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism 3rd ed. p. 174

"Question: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holydays?

Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church." Henry Tuberville, An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine (1833 approbation), p.58 (Same statement in Manual of Christian Doctrine, ed. by Daniel Ferris [1916 ed.], p.67)

"The Catholic Church,... by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday." The Catholic Mirror, official organ of Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893.

"1. Is Saturday the 7th day according to the Bible and the 10 Commandments?
"I answer yes.

"2. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the 7th day, Saturday, for Sunday, the 1st day?
"I answer yes.

"3. Did Christ change the day?
"I answer no! Faithfully yours,

"J. Cardinal Gibbons" Gibbons' autograph letter.

Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the NEW LAW, that he himself has explicitly substituted sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as holy days. The church chose sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days." John Laux A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies 1936, vol.1 p.51

"Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemity from Saturday to Sunday." Peter Geiermann, The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1946 ed.), p.50. Geiermann received the "apostolic blessing" of Pope Pius X on his labors, January 25, 1910.

"The Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her Founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant, claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh Day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant. The Catholic Universe Bulletin, Aug. 14, 1942, p.4

"The observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] church." Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today (1868), p. 213
===============================================
 
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,947
2,355
90
Union County, TN
✟834,411.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If only all of those who thought the Sabbath, given only to the Israelites, would have read 2Cor3:7-11,Eph 2:14-15, Col 2:16-17 and 1Jn 3:19-24. If only those who are now telling us we must observe the Sabbath to please God would realize that no place in the New Testament is there a passage about says we must keep the 10 commandments. Jesus gave us a new commandment to love others as He loves us. Jn 15:10. Jesus kept the 10 commandments that His Father gave Him and Jesus asks us to keep the commandments He gives us.

There is no greater love than to lay down our lives for our fellow man. It isn't about Sabbath keeping friends, it is about love. If we really love God and want to please Him then we will love our fellow man as Jesus loves us.
 
Upvote 0

Yeshua HaDerekh

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it
May 9, 2013
13,211
4,672
Eretz
✟380,593.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
If only all of those who thought the Sabbath, given only to the Israelites, would have read 2Cor3:7-11,Eph 2:14-15, Col 2:16-17 and 1Jn 3:19-24. If only those who are now telling us we must observe the Sabbath to please God would realize that no place in the New Testament is there a passage about says we must keep the 10 commandments. Jesus gave us a new commandment to love others as He loves us. Jn 15:10. Jesus kept the 10 commandments that His Father gave Him and Jesus asks us to keep the commandments He gives us.

There is no greater love than to lay down our lives for our fellow man. It isn't about Sabbath keeping friends, it is about love. If we really love God and want to please Him then we will love our fellow man as Jesus loves us.

First, the Sabbath was given to Adam HaRishon (the first man). Was he an Israelite? Are YOU related to Adam? Are you, through faith, grafted into Israel? The 10 show how to love God and love your fellow man. BOTH these commandments are also in the TaNaKh. That you shall not murder is a commandment, right? So now if you hate, it is as murder! If you think about adultery, it is as you have already committed it! They have NOT gone, they are now even stricter! Be careful what you teach...

1 John also says:
For this is the message you heard from the beginning. We should love one another. Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters...

Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
 
Upvote 0

ralliann

christian
Jun 27, 2007
8,230
2,592
✟275,384.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
First, the Sabbath was given to Adam HaRishon (the first man).
Where are you getting this from?
Was he an Israelite? Are YOU related to Adam? Are you, through faith, grafted into Israel? The 10 show how to love God and love your fellow man. BOTH these commandments are also in the TaNaKh. That you shall not murder is a commandment, right? So now if you hate, it is as murder! If you think about adultery, it is as you have already committed it! They have NOT gone, they are now even stricter! Be careful what you teach...
The way I read it....The law through Moses was added. When we read that law we see that the nations were kicked out of the land for immorality of which these two verses speak of the result. It seems to me that the judgements were "retained" for Israel. And the rest of Moses law was in addition upon the nation of Israel.
Le 18:24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
Le 18:28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
The same difference with clean and unclean animals to Noah. Animals were not for food, but were for sacrifice at that time...
1 John also says:
For this is the message you heard from the beginning. We should love one another. Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters...

Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
The same difference also with the Sabbath. Moses spoke of a rest they had not yet entered, after he had already given them the Sabbath day.
This is not speaking of the seventh day rest.
De 12:9 For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.
 
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,947
2,355
90
Union County, TN
✟834,411.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
First, the Sabbath was given to Adam HaRishon (the first man).
That is a complete misnomer. The Genesis account does not say the Sabbath was given to Adam. You begin with a false premise.

Was he an Israelite? Are YOU related to Adam? Are you, through faith, grafted into Israel?
We must be grafted into different trees. I am grafted into the real root, Jesus.

The 10 show how to love God and love your fellow man.
Funny the two greatest commandments are not part of the commandments written on stone. The 10 show man all about duty to God and to our fellow man.

BOTH these commandments are also in the TaNaKh. That you shall not murder is a commandment, right? So now if you hate, it is as murder! If you think about adultery, it is as you have already committed it! They have NOT gone, they are now even stricter! Be careful what you teach...
Ditto my friend. So far your batting average isn't very impressive. Moral laws are forever no matter wherever we find them. All laws dealing with morality are wrapped up in the law of love.

1 John also says:
For this is the message you heard from the beginning. We should love one another. Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters...

Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
Amen!
 
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,820
74
Las Vegas
✟263,478.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
That is a complete misnomer. The Genesis account does not say the Sabbath was given to Adam. You begin with a false premise.


We must be grafted into different trees. I am grafted into the real root, Jesus.


Funny the two greatest commandments are not part of the commandments written on stone. The 10 show man all about duty to God and to our fellow man.


Ditto my friend. So far your batting average isn't very impressive. Moral laws are forever no matter wherever we find them. All laws dealing with morality are wrapped up in the law of love.


Amen!

What does the 4th say as to why it was given?
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


Who do you think He made it for? Do you think God needs to rest from work? The original doles not read rest--it says cease--He was finished with creation and He ceased His work--that day He sanctified---made Holy---what does made Holy mean to you?

Mar_2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Jesus did not say it was made for the Jew.
You say you keep the commandments of love---what commandments of love for God are those?

There are 4---no other Gods--no graven images--do not take His name in vain--and to keep Hiks Sabbath day Holy.

Why do you keep Sunday? Where does the bible say that God has made that day sanctified and holy? Where did Jesus or the disciples say to keep that day holy?
From Cain, man has wanted to do what they want to d to honor God--except what God has said.

Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Mat_5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Col_2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

No man can set aside what God has declared holy, He alone makes any thing holy. So far---you have not made one single strike---batting average is right at zero. All you have to do to get a home run is state where God, Jesus or even the disciples have said---"we are to show our love for God by celebrating the resurrection of Jesus instead of the 7th day Sabbath."

It was Jesus that declared the 7thy day Sabbath sanctified and holy---
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Amen!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Yeshua HaDerekh

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it
May 9, 2013
13,211
4,672
Eretz
✟380,593.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
That is a complete misnomer. The Genesis account does not say the Sabbath was given to Adam. You begin with a false premise.


We must be grafted into different trees. I am grafted into the real root, Jesus.


Funny the two greatest commandments are not part of the commandments written on stone. The 10 show man all about duty to God and to our fellow man.


Ditto my friend. So far your batting average isn't very impressive. Moral laws are forever no matter wherever we find them. All laws dealing with morality are wrapped up in the law of love.


Amen!
It does not say it wasn't either. So who else was there? The 2 summerize the 10. There is only one tree.
 
Upvote 0