Do progressives/liberals really want issues to be resolved?

[LOVEthroughINTELLECT]

Maybe you have heard the thinking that says that conservatives who have power do not really want to criminalize abortion because then abortion would no longer be an issue that divides us and they therefore might not keep their power. So they do things like get elected President of the U.S. by attacking pro-choice candidates, mobilizing pro-life voters, etc. but then appoint people who are pro-choice to cabinet positions.

Honestly, I am beginning to think that progressives/liberals are not any different. In my humble opinion, the answers for many liberal concerns/causes are patently obvious. Racism? Biological race is a myth. There are no biological races within the human species. Racism is rooted in the belief in the existence of such distinct biological races. I think that if people really wanted to end racism then they would stop giving credence to mythical, culturally-constructed categories that were created to justify colonial domination, slavery, etc. If people really wanted to end racism then they would say, "There are no races. Can we please move on?". But what do the progressives/liberals do? They keep on talking about black people, white people, Hispanic people, etc. and they keep on using those mythical categories to justify new policies, beat people up from their bully pulpit, fill airtime and newsprint ad nauseam with commentary about race and racism, etc.

I am sure that with minimal intellectual effort one could say the same things about other liberal causes/concerns such as poverty, sexism, the environment, workers' rights, LGBT rights, etc.

But why remove a molehill when you can build a mountain on top of it and then enjoy steady power and income by manipulating everybody into fighting over that mountain?

 

[Percivale]

you're probably right, about some politicians. Others just get swept away by emotions, black and white thinking, and herd mentality. Others are convinced what they promote is the only way to solve the problems.

 

[Paradoxum]

But some people do have darker or lighter skin, and that seems to be what people mean by race, so what do you mean there is no race?

I'm not sure how you mean to apply that to other issues.

 

[cutekittycat]

so... there is no baby?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It's our differences that divide us; physically, culturally, emotionally, educationally, politically, economically. Of course the most striking difference is appearance (is this racial, ethnic? I don't know the terms anymore).

 

[Autumnleaf]

Race is something that people have to be taught for over a decade to not believe in. You spend a night in prison and you'll learn otherwise real fast.

 

[Strathos]

The claim is that race is a social construct, not that race doesn't exist. Social constructs most certainly exist.

 

[Hetta]

Race is something that people have to be taught for over a decade to not believe in. You spend a night in prison and you'll learn otherwise real fast.

Then don't get sent to prison. See how easy that was?

 

[Hetta]

Maybe you have heard the thinking that says that conservatives who have power do not really want to criminalize abortion because then abortion would no longer be an issue that divides us and they therefore might not keep their power. So they do things like get elected President of the U.S. by attacking pro-choice candidates, mobilizing pro-life voters, etc. but then appoint people who are pro-choice to cabinet positions.

Honestly, I am beginning to think that progressives/liberals are not any different. In my humble opinion, the answers for many liberal concerns/causes are patently obvious. Racism? Biological race is a myth. There are no biological races within the human species. Racism is rooted in the belief in the existence of such distinct biological races. I think that if people really wanted to end racism then they would stop giving credence to mythical, culturally-constructed categories that were created to justify colonial domination, slavery, etc. If people really wanted to end racism then they would say, "There are no races. Can we please move on?". But what do the progressives/liberals do? They keep on talking about black people, white people, Hispanic people, etc. and they keep on using those mythical categories to justify new policies, beat people up from their bully pulpit, fill airtime and newsprint ad nauseam with commentary about race and racism, etc.

I am sure that with minimal intellectual effort one could say the same things about other liberal causes/concerns such as poverty, sexism, the environment, workers' rights, LGBT rights, etc.

But why remove a molehill when you can build a mountain on top of it and then enjoy steady power and income by manipulating everybody into fighting over that mountain?

It's a great idea that everyone should stop talking about race, but what then? Will institutional racism crumble? Will employers start treating all applicants equally and hiring minorities on the basis of skill rather than race? Will minorities start earning as much as their white counterparts earn? Will we all become "color blind" overnight?

As for Liberals/Conservatives being the same - uh, no.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Will employers start treating all applicants equally and hiring minorities on the basis of skill rather than race?

It's often hard to separate race and skill level. As a demographic blacks and Latinos lag behind Whites and Asians in education in many regions. It's also hard to overlook appearance, attitude, communication skills, and work experience of a prospective employee.

 

[Hetta]

It's often hard to separate race and skill level. As a demographic blacks and Latinos lag behind Whites and Asians in education in many regions. It's also hard to overlook appearance, attitude, communication skills, and work experience of a prospective employee.

Do I have to post the studies again? Seriously, look them up yourself. When they put together CVs of people with very similar levels of experience and education, but give some an African American "sounding" name or a white "sounding" name, they found that prospective employers were more likely to call the candidates with the "white" names. That would prevent a minority applicant from even getting to the interview stage. Also, huge amounts of research showing school teachers discriminating against minority kids, which puts them at a disadvantage from pre-school. I'm so tired of posting this stuff - but I'll make the effort, just to address this point.

 

[FireDragon76]

Just because race is socially constructed doesn't mean it isn't a powerful reality that must be delt with.

 

[Strathos]

Just because race is socially constructed doesn't mean it isn't a powerful reality that must be delt with.

Exactly

 

[Joykins]

But some people do have darker or lighter skin, and that seems to be what people mean by race, so what do you mean there is no race?

I'm not sure how you mean to apply that to other issues.

More or less: there is no biological basis for race. Yes, there are genes that control skin color and hair appearance (which is most of what we mean by race), but these disappear as defining characteristics really fast once you marry someone who looks different enough and start having children with them.

 

[Paradoxum]

More or less: there is no biological basis for race. Yes, there are genes that control skin color and hair appearance (which is most of what we mean by race), but these disappear as defining characteristics really fast once you marry someone who looks different enough and start having children with them.

I'm sure that's true.

 

[Loudmouth]

Maybe you have heard the thinking that says that conservatives who have power do not really want to criminalize abortion because then abortion would no longer be an issue that divides us and they therefore might not keep their power. So they do things like get elected President of the U.S. by attacking pro-choice candidates, mobilizing pro-life voters, etc. but then appoint people who are pro-choice to cabinet positions.

Honestly, I am beginning to think that progressives/liberals are not any different. In my humble opinion, the answers for many liberal concerns/causes are patently obvious. Racism? Biological race is a myth. There are no biological races within the human species. Racism is rooted in the belief in the existence of such distinct biological races. I think that if people really wanted to end racism then they would stop giving credence to mythical, culturally-constructed categories that were created to justify colonial domination, slavery, etc. If people really wanted to end racism then they would say, "There are no races. Can we please move on?". But what do the progressives/liberals do? They keep on talking about black people, white people, Hispanic people, etc. and they keep on using those mythical categories to justify new policies, beat people up from their bully pulpit, fill airtime and newsprint ad nauseam with commentary about race and racism, etc.

I am sure that with minimal intellectual effort one could say the same things about other liberal causes/concerns such as poverty, sexism, the environment, workers' rights, LGBT rights, etc.

But why remove a molehill when you can build a mountain on top of it and then enjoy steady power and income by manipulating everybody into fighting over that mountain?

As much as Republicans complain about abortion and the IRS, they have done nothing about them when they had control of all three branches of power (House, Senate, White House). Nothing.

What happened when Democrats had control of all three? They pushed through the Affordable Care Act. That's the difference.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

Racism? Biological race is a myth. There are no biological races within the human species. Racism is rooted in the belief in the existence of such distinct biological races. I think that if people really wanted to end racism then they would stop giving credence to mythical, culturally-constructed categories that were created to justify colonial domination, slavery, etc. If people really wanted to end racism then they would say, "There are no races. Can we please move on?". But what do the progressives/liberals do? They keep on talking about black people, white people, Hispanic people, etc. and they keep on using those mythical categories to justify new policies, beat people up from their bully pulpit, fill airtime and newsprint ad nauseam with commentary about race and racism, etc.

I think that you've actually pointed out the issue with a strategy of not dealing with race yourself. While race isn't objectively real, it's a widely accepted social construct. When you have such wide acceptance of an idea, then you do start to have real-world consequences from that. In the world as it is now, some groups are objectively underprivileged, even if the status of membership in those groups is generated by subjective perceptions. Ending racism requires an acceptance that race is entirely subjective, but that doesn't come overnight. Social constructs have momentum.

 

[Lost Angel]

Maybe you have heard the thinking that says that conservatives who have power do not really want to criminalize abortion because then abortion would no longer be an issue that divides us and they therefore might not keep their power. So they do things like get elected President of the U.S. by attacking pro-choice candidates, mobilizing pro-life voters, etc. but then appoint people who are pro-choice to cabinet positions.

Honestly, I am beginning to think that progressives/liberals are not any different. In my humble opinion, the answers for many liberal concerns/causes are patently obvious. Racism? Biological race is a myth. There are no biological races within the human species. Racism is rooted in the belief in the existence of such distinct biological races. I think that if people really wanted to end racism then they would stop giving credence to mythical, culturally-constructed categories that were created to justify colonial domination, slavery, etc. If people really wanted to end racism then they would say, "There are no races. Can we please move on?". But what do the progressives/liberals do? They keep on talking about black people, white people, Hispanic people, etc. and they keep on using those mythical categories to justify new policies, beat people up from their bully pulpit, fill airtime and newsprint ad nauseam with commentary about race and racism, etc.

I am sure that with minimal intellectual effort one could say the same things about other liberal causes/concerns such as poverty, sexism, the environment, workers' rights, LGBT rights, etc.

But why remove a molehill when you can build a mountain on top of it and then enjoy steady power and income by manipulating everybody into fighting over that mountain?

It is nice to see that you are color blind to the social construct of race. A person is a person, and all people are equality treated despite ancestral physical traits.

Unfortunately, in my lifetime I have seen and experienced a great deal of positive and negative treatment based totally on fixed physical appearance.

The past has colored the present. This have changed a great deal for good, but with change some things get worse. There is anger and distrust among people.

Pretending that something does not still exist, when it does, solves nothing.

 

[ebia]

Maybe you have heard the thinking that says that conservatives who have power do not really want to criminalize abortion because then abortion would no longer be an issue that divides us and they therefore might not keep their power. So they do things like get elected President of the U.S. by attacking pro-choice candidates, mobilizing pro-life voters, etc. but then appoint people who are pro-choice to cabinet positions. Honestly, I am beginning to think that progressives/liberals are not any different. In my humble opinion, the answers for many liberal concerns/causes are patently obvious. Racism? Biological race is a myth. There are no biological races within the human species. Racism is rooted in the belief in the existence of such distinct biological races. I think that if people really wanted to end racism then they would stop giving credence to mythical, culturally-constructed categories that were created to justify colonial domination, slavery, etc. If people really wanted to end racism then they would say, "There are no races. Can we please move on?".

That would be fine if racism was simply an idea with no real consequences for real people.
While there are real consequences for real people we need to be able to talk about those consequences and the people impacted.
Saying "those people disadvantaged by anti-black-racism" all the time is rather too long winded.

 

[ebia]

I am sure that with minimal intellectual effort one could say the same things about other liberal causes/concerns such as poverty, sexism, the environment, workers' rights, LGBT rights, etc. But why remove a molehill when you can build a mountain on top of it and then enjoy steady power and income by manipulating everybody into fighting over that mountain?

How do you fix gender inequality by pretending females don't exist, or stop environmental damage by pretending the environment doesn't exist?