Do Mormons go to Hell?

[MormonFriend]

You can't have it both ways. Either your god was once a man, or he wasn't. Make your choice.

It is not a matter of having it both ways. I believe TOm explained that what President Snow said was true, but that there is not enough complete information given to understand the mysteries of Godliness, not to mention having an intelligent discussion.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: .........(1 Timothy3:16)

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: (1 Corinthians2:7)

When covering so much doctrine, the unknown mysteries are bound to surface. That is a fact that we must deal with. Since it is our mystery, then unlocking it would also be found in our doctrine. Applying this doctrine to your standard of belief goes back to my jig saw puzzle concept. You cannot take any piece from our puzzle and expect it to fit in your puzzle. Yet that is the source of all your criticism.

Our gospels are different. And then you will say:

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (2 Corinthians11:4)

...assuming that you have a gospel that is the same as the one in existance when this was written.

But in our gospel it is the same that was preached in those days because what was lost temporarily, is now restored.

Don't you get it? We are going on an eternal merry-go-round over issues that are apples to doughnuts! We are not speaking the same language!

My suggestion comes from my experience at work. When something is complicated, I remember that complication is only multiple basics that work together in harmony. If the complicated equipment that I work on fails, I gather all the basics that make it work, and find out which basic is faulty, or missing.
Are there defined basics in the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
I would like to hear them from you.

 

[Toms777]

It is not a matter of having it both ways. I believe TOm explained that what President Snow said was true, but that there is not enough complete information given to understand the mysteries of Godliness, not to mention having an intelligent discussion.

Just show us where the Bible says that men can become God or gods.

 

[gort]

We believe Jesus died for us on the cross. If we accept Jesus as our Savior, we will live in heaven in the afterlife. There is only one God. I honestly have no idea where y’all get these false notions of the LDS/RLDS church. I’ve been to the church and they NEVER taught any of the junk y’all claim we believe.

Hello,

Joseph Smith, founder and prophet of LDS had once stated that the Blood Atonement of Christ Jesus was not sufficient for SOME SINS. Murder and adultery being 2 of these.

These "false notions" are what your prophets and presidents have proclaimed.

Do your own research if you like.

The Truth will set you free.

<><

 

[MormonFriend]

There is only one true church of which Jesus is the head - that is the body of believers.


Don't try to avoid the question. Mormonism teaches specifically that God was once a man and that men can become gods.

Where does the Bible say that men can become God or gods?

22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: (Genesis3:22)

 

[MormonFriend]

Just show us where the Bible says that men can become God or gods.

22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: (Genesis3:22)

 

[gort]

Wrigley quote:
I know where you're coming from. The mormons here will probably not be converted. This is more of an exercise to protect.

We don't know what may happen. I have seen several LDS come to this part of the forum, asking honest questions, and expressing honest doubts. It is said the Lord works in mysterious ways. Mysterious to us, but not to Him. Trust that the Lord does send those, who in honesty, do have conflicts with what they are taught, to search for answers. He works in His way, and in His time, just as He did with us.

There are many LDS who are called ....New Order Mormons. They have serious conflicts with teachings and beliefs of mormonism, yet they are "stuck", amongst family members, and co-workers, have businesses,and such, and have a fear of repercussion from their families and friends. They don't want to be shunned. They go to LDS church still, yet are no longer TBM.

Pray for them, as I know you do.

 

[Invader Pichu]

Note: I used to be a Pentacoastal. I converted to the Mormon church.

 

[Crickets]

I agree with you that God is all powerful and beyond our complete comprehension but I do not think he is removed from the human race. I am a believer in the word of God (Bible) and I believe that his holy spirit indwells all believers and resides with them. I believe he is a very personal God. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by this last statement. If I did, please correct me.

God Bless,
Grace

Well, it sounded really neat when they said it on Star Trek. I only meant to indicate that God is not now nor has he ever been a human being and that humans cannot become as he is. I did not mean that he does not interfere in the affairs of humans. He most certainly does. The great miracle is that so holy and powerful a being would condescend to adopt so lowly a race as we are and even allow us to have his spirit within us. Of course I believe that humans can have a personal relationship with God and that he manifests himself through the power of the holy spirit and through, prophets, healings, miracles, tongues, , etc. Most importantly (if you can believe this) I know that I am the center of God's every thought, motives and action at all times, and so are you and everyone else on this board.

 

[Crickets]

As to our concept of who and what God is, tell me how it is more flawed that believing in a God who had no purpose for creating. A God that is suppose to be all powerful and all knowing, yet can not create beings that are perfect. And who did not have the power of foreknowing that his beings would go against his will. A God that created evil, transgression, pain, misery etc.

It seems to me that you are playing both ends against the middle. Previously you stated that human divination was pure speculation. So, let me ask you outright. Do you believe that God was once a man, lives near the star Kolob or that humans can become gods? If I am not mistaken D&C 132 states very clearly that humans can become gods through the "new and everlasting covenant." I understand that the LDS feel that there is justification for this in Old and New Testaments. But what do you believe?

 

[Mark Donald]

You know I dont really know all that much about this topic and all but it is interesting.

I have one thing which I think is interesting though, Satan first decieved 'man' by telling him that if he ate the fruit that he would become as God, that is what got us in this mess in the first place.

I personally dont believe there is any proof in the Bible towards what the mormons believe.

 

[Crickets]

We believe Jesus died for us on the cross. If we accept Jesus as our Savior, we will live in heaven in the afterlife. There is only one God. I honestly have no idea where y’all get these false notions of the LDS/RLDS church. I’ve been to the church and they NEVER taught any of the junk y’all claim we believe.

I was in the church for several months before I learned that it was true that the LDS taught that there are many gods and that humans can become gods. For a long time I knew that some called the Church polytheistic but thought that the statement that the CoJCoLDS taught that humans can become gods was just another "antimormon lie." If I were you I would read D&C 132, very carefully and see if you don't understand what all the fuss is about.

D&C 132

[20] Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject to them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them

Having read and finally understood it myself I was compelled to drop to my knees and ask the forgiveness of Almighty God for joining the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. See if you do not feel compelled to do the same and to return to the Pentecostal Church where they teach the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

The RLDS church (now known as the Community of Christ) deleted all references to multiple gods, men becoming gods, God having a body of flesh and bone etc ... from their version of D&C which I believe only contains the first 75 chapters. The RLDS has also denounced the Book of Abraham and rightfully so as Egyptologists generally concur that the facsimiles contained in it are bogus and that Joseph Smith had no knowledge of Egyptian whatever.

In fact there has yet to be a reputable Egyptologist to verify Joseph Smiths interpretation of these pictures to be correct and all seem to concur that the papyrus with which they were found are standard pagan funerary documents bearing no resemblance whatsoever to the madness that Joseph Smith was professing about the world turning into a giant seer stone, or whatever. Further, DNA evidence has shown that there was never an emigration of people from the Middle East to the Americas in pre-Columbian times. You have found this site so do some searches. Check out the churches own literature on the subjects, FARMS, FAIR and SHIELDS all have their own websites. A goggle search for the word "Kinderhook" has made and ex and even an anti of many a TBM.

I understand that it is hard to accept. Church members are very friendly, successful, scholarly, healthy and happy people. The church's concepts of family responsibility are values that are very much lacking in our society and it is a great place to raise kids. But it is based on a lie and on a great many very silly doctrines. The truth is that you don't have to wear long underwear in the summer or know any Masonic handshakes to get into heaven and that revelation from God never came to an Occultist, money-digging, polygamist through a seer stone in a hat.

 

[Der Alte]

Just show us where the Bible says that men can become God or gods.

22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: (Genesis3:22)

And you do realize that by highlighting certain words and ignoring the other words in this verse you are violating the total context of the verse? It does not say what you think it does.

God did not say the &#8220;man is become one of us&#8221; God said &#8220;the man is become as one of us.&#8221; And God very narrowly limited that similarity, "[only to the extent that man] know good and evil:&#8221; God further limits the similarity of man to God, after eating the fruit, by saying, &#8220;and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:&#8221; If man had become a god, he would have had eternal life, and God, the one and only God, could not have prevented him from gaining eternal life and kicked him out of the garden.

Unless you want to argue that once man becomes a "god," he is not omnipotent, and can be demoted back to being a common man again, by a more powerful God? Would you care to quote some scripture on that? Or maybe one of the LDS prophets has had a revelation on it.

 

[Toms777]

Note: I used to be a Pentacoastal. I converted to the Mormon church.

All that God cares about is that you axccept the one true Messiah, Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, through the true gospel which was given on the Bible.

No religion and no denomination saves, it is only the blood of Jesus Christ shed on the cross for our sins.

 

[Invader Pichu]

All that God cares about is that you axccept the one true Messiah, Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, through the true gospel which was given on the Bible.

No religion and no denomination saves, it is only the blood of Jesus Christ shed on the cross for our sins.

That is so true. I just wish that more people would realize that.

 

[Toms777]

That is so true. I just wish that more people would realize that.

The Mormon church, on the other hand, claims that you msut go through their rituals and cannot be saved except through Jospeh Smith.

the Mormon church therefore teaches a heretical gospel.

 

[fatboys]

I was in the church for several months before I learned that it was true that the LDS taught that there are many gods and that humans can become gods. For a long time I knew that some called the Church polytheistic but thought that the statement that the CoJCoLDS taught that humans can become gods was just another "antimormon lie." If I were you I would read D&C 132, very carefully and see if you don't understand what all the fuss is about.



Having read and finally understood it myself I was compelled to drop to my knees and ask the forgiveness of Almighty God for joining the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. See if you do not feel compelled to do the same and to return to the Pentecostal Church where they teach the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

The RLDS church (now known as the Community of Christ) deleted all references to multiple gods, men becoming gods, God having a body of flesh and bone etc ... from their version of D&C which I believe only contains the first 75 chapters. The RLDS has also denounced the Book of Abraham and rightfully so as Egyptologists generally concur that the facsimiles contained in it are bogus and that Joseph Smith had no knowledge of Egyptian whatever.

In fact there has yet to be a reputable Egyptologist to verify Joseph Smiths interpretation of these pictures to be correct and all seem to concur that the papyrus with which they were found are standard pagan funerary documents bearing no resemblance whatsoever to the madness that Joseph Smith was professing about the world turning into a giant seer stone, or whatever. Further, DNA evidence has shown that there was never an emigration of people from the Middle East to the Americas in pre-Columbian times. You have found this site so do some searches. Check out the churches own literature on the subjects, FARMS, FAIR and SHIELDS all have their own websites. A goggle search for the word "Kinderhook" has made and ex and even an anti of many a TBM.

I understand that it is hard to accept. Church members are very friendly, successful, scholarly, healthy and happy people. The church's concepts of family responsibility are values that are very much lacking in our society and it is a great place to raise kids. But it is based on a lie and on a great many very silly doctrines. The truth is that you don't have to wear long underwear in the summer or know any Masonic handshakes to get into heaven and that revelation from God never came to an Occultist, money-digging, polygamist through a seer stone in a hat.

FB: Cricket, why did you join in the first place. Didn't they ask you to pray about it? Did not the Holy Ghost testify to you that the church had been restored? You were in the church for a couple of months? And now you know all the doctrine that we teach. Do you see how little credibility this gives you? And because you can not say that one thing made you leave the church, you bring in the Kinderhook plates or Masonic handshakes which you know nothing about. Nothing. You have gotten your sources from those whose purpose it is to twist and make something out of nothing, sort of like the God you believe in.

Do you know anything about the kinderhook plates? Do you know anything about DNA? All you can do is report what you have been told. Yet you would rather believe the detractors of the church, than what other scholars have been saying for many years. Even though members of the church may believe some things about the Book of Mormon which the Book of Mormon does not say itself, does not make the Book of Mormon false. If you left the church because of these stupid silly theories, or remarks by people who do not know, then how can you claim any faith at all, even in the very Christ that you proclaim today. For when the storms start to form, and the rains begin to fall, where will your faith in Christ be? I hope it is stronger than the faith you had in the restoration of Christ's church. For you will be floating around like a bob in the water. There had to be something you saw in the church or you would not have joined it. After the trial of your faith, where are you. Don't you wonder why after reading all the anti material I have been exposed, and over the many years I have been at this, that I still and for ever remain faithful to the restoration of Christ's church through the prophet Joseph Smith? My witness of this restoration is so sure, that I would be under condemnation if I withdrew my testimony. Does not matter what others say about the church. I have leaders which have offended me, but they do not have the power for me to see the church as anything but a conduit for me to reach my goal of seeing Christ face to face, and him embracing me and loving me for the progress I made on earth, and for the things I did in building his kingdom on earth. And the anti mormonites who spit and spout this and that is literally perhaps an annoyance, but gives me a better understanding of how others see what I believe, and gives me a chance to try and explain it so a open minded person can see the truth in it. As for those who are here to debate a destroy what I believe....it is as fodder.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Cricket, congratulations on leaving the lies of the LDS teachings and becoming Christian and accepting the true Lord! God is so good and he always hears the call of those who want to know him more than they want to know the words of "man".

God Bless,
Grace

 

[gort]

fatboys quote:
And the anti mormonites who spit and spout this and that is literally perhaps an annoyance, but gives me a better understanding of how others see what I believe, and gives me a chance to try and explain it so a open minded person can see the truth in it. As for those who are here to debate a destroy what I believe....it is as fodder.

I see you have defined the term anti-mormon a little better. If we spit and spout anything it is against the false teachings of your founder and presidents, which have no foundation in the Holy Bible.
Hopefully those who are open minded will see the truth. I can quote your Joseph Smith and his revelation of the insufficient Blood Atonement for some sins many times, and get no honest response. However there was one or two here that recognized a truth.

I will ask you, fatboys, to try and say out loud, just as JS did, and say that the Atoning Work of Christ Jesus is insufficient for some multiple sins. You don't have to say it here, just tell yourself that, outloud, even in jest, and you just might see what I see. Many of your prophets and presidents way into this century have espoused that belief. Ask yourself how you could "error" in that regard.

The LDS beliefs and doctrines are another testament......in other words another gospel, another good news.

It is JS that started the blood atonement thing, it is JS that saw many other supposed revelations.

If these are stupid silly theories, remember your founder invented them. They are not compatible with the Bible.

<><

 

[skylark1]

I just read this post by MormonFriend from several pages back:


Skylark: .... I should add that I do not believe that anyone will be condemned to hell on the basis of their view on this issue, as long as they believe that it is Jesus Christ that saves them, not their own efforts.

MormonFriend: Skylark, do you think this analogy could apply?

The Ladder

If I were stuck in a deep pit with no way out, and someone lowered a ladder, could I boast that my works of climbing out is what was rescued me? I have always had the ability to climb, but that didn't do much good in the pit, without the gift from my rescuer. Did I have faith in the ladder, or in the provider of the ladder? Could I demonstrate that faith without climbing it? If I did not apply my faith by climbing, I would soon be as dead as was my faith. Yet if I climb out, it was the gift that saved me, through my faith in that gift. This has every application and fits every requirement of the Biblical requirements. Works are a necessity, but are powerless to save.



MormonFriend,

My words were not meant to condemn. I do not know if your faith is in your own efforts or in Jesus Christ. I am not judging you. God knows your heart, I don't.

For me, your analogy raises more questions than it answers. First, you claim that you always had the ability to climb. What exactly do you mean by this, and how does it relate to the Bible? Do you mean that you had the ability to live a sinless life?

 

[fatboys]

I see you have defined the term anti-mormon a little better. If we spit and spout anything it is against the false teachings of your founder and presidents, which have no foundation in the Holy Bible.

FB: Lets see the church has no foundation in the Holy Bible. Prophets, apostles, teachers, priests, a resurrected Christ. Nope, nothing about these people in the HOLY BIBLE.

Hopefully those who are open minded will see the truth. I can quote your Joseph Smith and his revelation of the insufficient Blood Atonement for some sins many times, and get no honest response. However there was one or two here that recognized a truth.

FB: You are saying that all sin is paid for by Christ?

I will ask you, fatboys, to try and say out loud, just as JS did, and say that the Atoning Work of Christ Jesus is insufficient for some multiple sins. You don't have to say it here, just tell yourself that, outloud, even in jest, and you just might see what I see. Many of your prophets and presidents way into this century have espoused that belief. Ask yourself how you could "error" in that regard.

FB: Not all sin was covered by the atonement.

The LDS beliefs and doctrines are another testament......in other words another gospel, another good news.

It is JS that started the blood atonement thing, it is JS that saw many other supposed revelations.

If these are stupid silly theories, remember your founder invented them. They are not compatible with the Bible.

<><

FB: First off you are making sweeping statements that are not true. Second you do not understand what the blood atonement is, and I doubt that I could teach you what it really means. Not that you are not smart enough, but that you have already decided what it is, and you are not going to listen to anything else.