-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Do Mormons go to Hell?
- Thread starter Blank123
- Start date
I think you asked me a question and then answered it yourself.MommyT said:
What you heard about apostates and hell is, to my knowledge, applicable to those who have been enlightened by the Holy Spirit of Promise, or the Holy Ghost. The worst case scenario is if one receives a witness from the Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Christ, and then denies that witness.
Regarding your efforts to find certain answers to questions that you wanted to prove wrong, there are many qualifications that each individual must pass to be sure that he or she can understand the things of God. Many times the answers are found internally, not externally.
Some of these are:
1. Depart from evil.
2. Prayer (Ask God for wisdom)
3. (Obedience yields knowledge.)
4. (Obedience and love for God's law ,verified by application and works)
5. Personal revelation from God.
6. Understanding is hidden from many (anciently and today)
CONTINUED:
Upvote
0
7. Apply our hearts in understanding:
8. God gives man understanding as they are prepared to receive it, and little by little.
9. Feelings (if they are not corrupted by sin and addicted to physical stimuli) will alert you when learning by the Spirit.
Indeed as the scriptures above demonstrated, there is a vail placed over our hearts and minds. And the scriptures tell us how to remove that veil of unbelief.
I wish you joy and happiness in your new life.
Darell
8. God gives man understanding as they are prepared to receive it, and little by little.
9. Feelings (if they are not corrupted by sin and addicted to physical stimuli) will alert you when learning by the Spirit.
MommyT, I too had serious questions and doubts about things I had heard from various sources. In answer to my prayers, I know the Lord told me to shape up, stop doing the things I'm not supposed to, and do the things that I am commanded to. It made all the difference in the world in understanding, because experience changes perception. The long process of cleaning up my life was an experience (and it continues). But the results of being in tune with the Holy Ghost made the difference.
Indeed as the scriptures above demonstrated, there is a vail placed over our hearts and minds. And the scriptures tell us how to remove that veil of unbelief.
I wish you joy and happiness in your new life.
Darell
Upvote
0
happyinhisgrace
Blessed Trinity
MommyT, I too had serious questions and doubts about things I had heard from various sources. In answer to my prayers, I know the Lord told me to shape up, stop doing the things I'm not supposed to, and do the things that I am commanded to. It made all the difference in the world in understanding, because experience changes perception. The long process of cleaning up my life was an experience (and it continues). But the results of being in tune with the Holy Ghost made the difference.
Maybe this is not the meaning you intended by the above statement but this is something that never ceases to amaze me, LDS people always assume that if you have disconcerning thoughts about lds docterine or if you are lead out of the LDS church, it is because you were not living right or because you were commiting some kind of "serious" sin. When I really think about it, I guess I can see that the reason they think that is because that is what they are taught. You know, the whole " anyone who is really living the 'gospel' would never stray from the 'true church'," thing. The truth of the matter is that the majority of people do not leave the lds church because they are commiting some sin that the lds church thinks is horendous, but rather that they desire to follow the true God or else they find out that what they were taught in the LDS church is a lie, or both. Of course lds members don't want to believe this because it would mean that they too would have to acknowlege the fact that there could be something seriously wrong with following the Mormon docterine too.
I will give the LDS leaders credit on one thing though, they sure know how to keep most of their members right where they want them.....under their control rather than God's. Brainwashing tatics and well planned sales pitches work great, why stop now. I find it more than a little sad that so many kind, well meaning LDS folks just can't see the forest for the trees. Oh well, I was like that once too, I pray God will open their eyes like he did mine.
God Bless-
Grace
Maybe this is not the meaning you intended by the above statement but this is something that never ceases to amaze me, LDS people always assume that if you have disconcerning thoughts about lds docterine or if you are lead out of the LDS church, it is because you were not living right or because you were commiting some kind of "serious" sin. When I really think about it, I guess I can see that the reason they think that is because that is what they are taught. You know, the whole " anyone who is really living the 'gospel' would never stray from the 'true church'," thing. The truth of the matter is that the majority of people do not leave the lds church because they are commiting some sin that the lds church thinks is horendous, but rather that they desire to follow the true God or else they find out that what they were taught in the LDS church is a lie, or both. Of course lds members don't want to believe this because it would mean that they too would have to acknowlege the fact that there could be something seriously wrong with following the Mormon docterine too.
I will give the LDS leaders credit on one thing though, they sure know how to keep most of their members right where they want them.....under their control rather than God's. Brainwashing tatics and well planned sales pitches work great, why stop now. I find it more than a little sad that so many kind, well meaning LDS folks just can't see the forest for the trees. Oh well, I was like that once too, I pray God will open their eyes like he did mine.
God Bless-
Grace
Upvote
0
After all of those Biblical references I listed, how can anyone doubt that living a non-righteous life can be the source of spiritual blindness? I "guess" that you assume these references cannot apply to LDS doctrines because you deem us non-Christian. Yet if we did not believe that by: "not living right or because you were commiting some kind of "serious" sin,"... would cause spiritual blindness, then you would have cause to say we are not Christian, because this concept is unmistakenly taught in scripture.happyinhisgrace said:
It doesn't take horendous sin to blind. Simple pride will do. A self-serving nature makes for an effective blindfold. Actually, horendous sin could be better in the sense that the person could more easily trace the source of their blindness, than could the persons who are blinded by the subtle and multiple attitude related character flaws.happyinhisgrace said:
But then again, if the leaders are prophets and apostles as we claim, then we are under God's direction. It could not be control, even in your scenario, because a key principle we teach is free agency. Nobody is compelled.happyinhisgrace said:
What the LDS Church has accomplished is what Chritianity is trying to accomplish. That is unity. Unity is a result of following the formulas set forth by Christ and the apostles of the original Church. But so many people cannot see the forest for the trees, which is that only a Christian Church could accomplish such unity.
Upvote
0
Skylark, do you think this analogy could apply?skylark1 said:
The Ladder
If I were stuck in a deep pit with no way out, and someone lowered a ladder, could I boast that my works of climbing out is what was rescued me? I have always had the ability to climb, but that didn't do much good in the pit, without the gift from my rescuer. Did I have faith in the ladder, or in the provider of the ladder? Could I demonstrate that faith without climbing it? If I did not apply my faith by climbing, I would soon be as dead as was my faith. Yet if I climb out, it was the gift that saved me, through my faith in that gift. This has every application and fits every requirement of the Biblical requirements. Works are a necessity, but are powerless to save.
Upvote
0
happyinhisgrace
Blessed Trinity
It doesn't take horendous sin to blind. Simple pride will do. A self-serving nature makes for an effective blindfold. Actually, horendous sin could be better in the sense that the person could more easily trace the source of their blindness, than could the persons who are blinded by the subtle and multiple attitude related character flaws.
Wow, so you are saying that all those who left the LDS church to follow the God of the Bible, were doing this out of pride and a self-serving nature? Interesting...especially considering that some of the most active, strongest believing lds I know are also some of the most prideful people I have ever known, I wonder why they are still LDS and havn't left the church. Also, everyone on this planet has character flaws, everyone. The LDS people have just as many character flaws as anyone else and yet they are still LDS. Does this mean that because of their character flaws, they will one day leave the lds church? That is great news!!!!!! I only hope it is sooner than later.
But then again, if the leaders are prophets and apostles as we claim, then we are under God's direction. It could not be control, even in your scenario, because a key principle we teach is free agency. Nobody is compelled.
What the LDS Church has accomplished is what Chritianity is trying to accomplish. That is unity. Unity is a result of following the formulas set forth by Christ and the apostles of the original Church. But so many people cannot see the forest for the trees, which is that only a Christian Church could accomplish such unity.
The LDS leaders are not prophets so no, they are not under God's direction. The LDS prophets do not meet God's standard for one being a prophet, so therefore they can not be such. To say that the LDS church does not compel it's members is not only an innacurate statement but such a falsehood that I can not believe you would even make such a statement. Even when I was active lds, I knew we were "compelled" to follow the rules of the church. The unity that the Christian community strives for, is unity in love of Jesus. The LDS church does not have this kind of unity either but the Christian community is closer than the lds church in the respect that they are worshiping the true God of the Bible instead of a fake God that has no power to save. Christians will always have minor disagreeances, that is just how it will be until Jesus returns but we are able to use the God given thinking process we have and can go directly to God, through Jesus and his Holy Word (the Bible) rather than through men that have no true athority in the eyes of God, because they teach "another gospel" than the one Jesus taught.
God Bless-
Grace
Wow, so you are saying that all those who left the LDS church to follow the God of the Bible, were doing this out of pride and a self-serving nature? Interesting...especially considering that some of the most active, strongest believing lds I know are also some of the most prideful people I have ever known, I wonder why they are still LDS and havn't left the church. Also, everyone on this planet has character flaws, everyone. The LDS people have just as many character flaws as anyone else and yet they are still LDS. Does this mean that because of their character flaws, they will one day leave the lds church? That is great news!!!!!! I only hope it is sooner than later.
But then again, if the leaders are prophets and apostles as we claim, then we are under God's direction. It could not be control, even in your scenario, because a key principle we teach is free agency. Nobody is compelled.
What the LDS Church has accomplished is what Chritianity is trying to accomplish. That is unity. Unity is a result of following the formulas set forth by Christ and the apostles of the original Church. But so many people cannot see the forest for the trees, which is that only a Christian Church could accomplish such unity.
The LDS leaders are not prophets so no, they are not under God's direction. The LDS prophets do not meet God's standard for one being a prophet, so therefore they can not be such. To say that the LDS church does not compel it's members is not only an innacurate statement but such a falsehood that I can not believe you would even make such a statement. Even when I was active lds, I knew we were "compelled" to follow the rules of the church. The unity that the Christian community strives for, is unity in love of Jesus. The LDS church does not have this kind of unity either but the Christian community is closer than the lds church in the respect that they are worshiping the true God of the Bible instead of a fake God that has no power to save. Christians will always have minor disagreeances, that is just how it will be until Jesus returns but we are able to use the God given thinking process we have and can go directly to God, through Jesus and his Holy Word (the Bible) rather than through men that have no true athority in the eyes of God, because they teach "another gospel" than the one Jesus taught.
God Bless-
Grace
Upvote
0
happyinhisgrace said:
LDS doctrine relies very heavily on the concept of free agency. Say what you will about Joseph Smith (heck I'll say it for you: money digging, occultist, polygamist, he made up the BoM, D&C and the BoA, stole the Master Mason Ceremony, Kolob, moon Quakers and assorted strange teachings, etc. ... ) He was a free thinker and I don't think that he would approve of the level of control that the Church is perported to exert over its member today. My initial reading of the BoM I was impressed that there was no original sin, that man was responsible for his own salvation and that the purpose of our existence was to experience joy. The LDS have a story where Lucifer and Jesus are warring in the preexistence over whether humans should be allowed free agency and it was Satan who felt that they should be compelled to do God's will.
Most of what the Church asks of members is stuff you should be doing any way like: chasity, temporance, healthy diet, spending time with your family, getting a good education, remaining self sufficient and being prepared for a disaster. Then you have church callings, missionary work, family history, temple work etc. Sakes alive! when do these poor people sleep? happyinhisgrace said:
Most of the LDS that visit this board reject the doctrine that God was once like us and progressed to Godhood by doing good works and that people can become gods. Think that it is this doctrine that gives many the impression that the LDS worship a different God than that of Christianity. I was somewhat heartened to see that as I was very disturbed by it. As with the Adam-God theory of Brigham Young, I think that eventually the Church will forbid the teaching of this nonsense about God as an exulted man living near a star called Kolob and see God for what he is: an infinitely powerful supreme being further removed from the human race than we are from the ameba (Star Trek reference there) and the only being of His kind anywhere in all existence. In this sense I think that it is the LDS concept of God that is different, and in my opinion flawed, and not that they worship a separate god.
Upvote
0
happyinhisgrace
Blessed Trinity
LDS doctrine relies very heavily on the concept of free agency. Say what you will about Joseph Smith (heck I'll say it for you: money digging, occultist, polygamist, he made up the BoM, D&C and the BoA, stole the Master Mason Ceremony, Kolob, moon Quakers and assorted strange teachings, etc. ... ) He was a free thinker and I don't think that he would approve of the level of control that the Church is perported to exert over its member today.
Except that JS held the same control over his followers during his lifetime.
I think he was very much My initial reading of the BoM I was impressed that there was no original sin, that man was responsible for his own salvation and that the purpose of our existence was to experience joy.
Well, this is a nice thought but the Bible teaches us that the purpose of our existance is to worship and glorify God and that original sin is a very real thing.
The LDS have a story where Lucifer and Jesus are warring in the preexistence over whether humans should be allowed free agency and it was Satan who felt that they should be compelled to do God's will.
Well let's see. The Bible says that Satan was an angel created by God, not a "pre-mortal" spirit child of Heavenly mother and father and since according to the Bible, humans and angels are 2 different beings, this also blows the LDS theory of satan and Jesus being "spirit" brothers completely out of the water. Not to mention that according to God's word, man did not pre-exist so the "war" in heaven was not "pre-earthly" spirits but rather a war between the created angels (hosts) of heaven. Enough said on that.
Most of what the Church asks of members is stuff you should be doing any way like: chasity, temporance, healthy diet, spending time with your family, getting a good education, remaining self sufficient and being prepared for a disaster. Then you have church callings, missionary work, family history, temple work etc. Sakes alive! when do these poor people sleep?
LOL, that last question is more "right on" than you might think. So many LDS, especially the women are overworked and in constant "I haven't done enough" syndrome. There is a huge amount of depression in the lds church, having once been lds, my guess would be it is because of always trying to work for that "perfection" and never quite feeling you have done enough to earn the highest reward...aka, celestial kingdom.
Most of the LDS that visit this board reject the doctrine that God was once like us and progressed to Godhood by doing good works and that people can become gods.
Are you sure they are lds then? That is the very tenent of lds belief, that God was once a man that progressed through the eternal laws of "the gospel" to become a God himself and that is what the goal of the lds is...to strive to be perfect so they to can make it to the highest level of the highest heaven and become Gods and goddesses themselves. If someone did not believe this LDS docterine, my first question would be, are they really LDS or are they new converts that don't know "the meat of the gospel" yet but only the "milk".
Think that it is this doctrine that gives many the impression that the LDS worship a different God than that of Christianity.
I would agree that is one of the docterines that lead so many to that conclusion but it is hardly the only one
I was somewhat heartened to see that as I was very disturbed by it. As with the Adam-God theory of Brigham Young, I think that eventually the Church will forbid the teaching of this nonsense about God as an exulted man living near a star called Kolob
Wouldn't suprise me if they did. The LDS church has changed much of it's docterine over the years and with the current lds president at the helm, we know he is a terrific PR person and wants the church to look good, even to the point that he will lie on Larry King and say that he doesn't know that the church ever even taught such a thing.
and see God for what he is: an infinitely powerful supreme being further removed from the human race than we are from the ameba (Star Trek reference there) and the only being of His kind anywhere in all existence. In this sense I think that it is the LDS concept of God that is different, and in my opinion flawed, and not that they worship a separate god.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you that God is all powerful and beyond our complete comprehension but I do not think he is removed from the human race. I am a believer in the word of God (Bible) and I believe that his holy spirit indwells all believers and resides with them. I believe he is a very personal God. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by this last statement. If I did, please correct me.
God Bless,
Grace
Except that JS held the same control over his followers during his lifetime.
I think he was very much My initial reading of the BoM I was impressed that there was no original sin, that man was responsible for his own salvation and that the purpose of our existence was to experience joy.
Well, this is a nice thought but the Bible teaches us that the purpose of our existance is to worship and glorify God and that original sin is a very real thing.
The LDS have a story where Lucifer and Jesus are warring in the preexistence over whether humans should be allowed free agency and it was Satan who felt that they should be compelled to do God's will.
Well let's see. The Bible says that Satan was an angel created by God, not a "pre-mortal" spirit child of Heavenly mother and father and since according to the Bible, humans and angels are 2 different beings, this also blows the LDS theory of satan and Jesus being "spirit" brothers completely out of the water. Not to mention that according to God's word, man did not pre-exist so the "war" in heaven was not "pre-earthly" spirits but rather a war between the created angels (hosts) of heaven. Enough said on that.
Most of what the Church asks of members is stuff you should be doing any way like: chasity, temporance, healthy diet, spending time with your family, getting a good education, remaining self sufficient and being prepared for a disaster. Then you have church callings, missionary work, family history, temple work etc. Sakes alive! when do these poor people sleep?
LOL, that last question is more "right on" than you might think. So many LDS, especially the women are overworked and in constant "I haven't done enough" syndrome. There is a huge amount of depression in the lds church, having once been lds, my guess would be it is because of always trying to work for that "perfection" and never quite feeling you have done enough to earn the highest reward...aka, celestial kingdom.
Most of the LDS that visit this board reject the doctrine that God was once like us and progressed to Godhood by doing good works and that people can become gods.
Are you sure they are lds then? That is the very tenent of lds belief, that God was once a man that progressed through the eternal laws of "the gospel" to become a God himself and that is what the goal of the lds is...to strive to be perfect so they to can make it to the highest level of the highest heaven and become Gods and goddesses themselves. If someone did not believe this LDS docterine, my first question would be, are they really LDS or are they new converts that don't know "the meat of the gospel" yet but only the "milk".
Think that it is this doctrine that gives many the impression that the LDS worship a different God than that of Christianity.
I would agree that is one of the docterines that lead so many to that conclusion but it is hardly the only one
I was somewhat heartened to see that as I was very disturbed by it. As with the Adam-God theory of Brigham Young, I think that eventually the Church will forbid the teaching of this nonsense about God as an exulted man living near a star called Kolob
Wouldn't suprise me if they did. The LDS church has changed much of it's docterine over the years and with the current lds president at the helm, we know he is a terrific PR person and wants the church to look good, even to the point that he will lie on Larry King and say that he doesn't know that the church ever even taught such a thing.
and see God for what he is: an infinitely powerful supreme being further removed from the human race than we are from the ameba (Star Trek reference there) and the only being of His kind anywhere in all existence. In this sense I think that it is the LDS concept of God that is different, and in my opinion flawed, and not that they worship a separate god.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you that God is all powerful and beyond our complete comprehension but I do not think he is removed from the human race. I am a believer in the word of God (Bible) and I believe that his holy spirit indwells all believers and resides with them. I believe he is a very personal God. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by this last statement. If I did, please correct me.
God Bless,
Grace
Upvote
0
fatboys
Senior Veteran
Crickets said:LDS doctrine relies very heavily on the concept of free agency. Say what you will about Joseph Smith (heck I'll say it for you: money digging, occultist, polygamist, he made up the BoM, D&C and the BoA, stole the Master Mason Ceremony, Kolob, moon Quakers and assorted strange teachings, etc. ... ) He was a free thinker and I don't think that he would approve of the level of control that the Church is perported to exert over its member today. My initial reading of the BoM I was impressed that there was no original sin, that man was responsible for his own salvation and that the purpose of our existence was to experience joy. The LDS have a story where Lucifer and Jesus are warring in the preexistence over whether humans should be allowed free agency and it was Satan who felt that they should be compelled to do God's will.
Most of the LDS that visit this board reject the doctrine that God was once like us and progressed to Godhood by doing good works and that people can become gods. Think that it is this doctrine that gives many the impression that the LDS worship a different God than that of Christianity. I was somewhat heartened to see that as I was very disturbed by it. As with the Adam-God theory of Brigham Young, I think that eventually the Church will forbid the teaching of this nonsense about God as an exulted man living near a star called Kolob and see God for what he is: an infinitely powerful supreme being further removed from the human race than we are from the ameba (Star Trek reference there) and the only being of His kind anywhere in all existence. In this sense I think that it is the LDS concept of God that is different, and in my opinion flawed, and not that they worship a separate god.
FB: Honestly this is the way I see it. I have been a member all my life, but not active until I was 22. I have see statements made that the church has some kind of control over me. Let me say this, if I did not believe this church was the real thing, I would walk away from it. But God has told me that it is the restoration. If God told you something, would you be more sinful if you walked away from it because it was not popular among a certain group, or would I be more sinful if I held to the teachings, if it was wrong. There is nothing that I have read or heard from church leaders from Brigham Young to Gordon B Hinkley that makes me think any different.
As to our concept of who and what God is, tell me how it is more flawed that believing in a God who had no purpose for creating. A God that is suppose to be all powerful and all knowing, yet can not create beings that are perfect. And who did not have the power of foreknowing that his beings would go against his will. A God that created evil, transgression, pain, misery etc.
Upvote
0
Crickets:
Most of the LDS that visit this board reject the doctrine that God was once like us and progressed to Godhood by doing good works and that people can become gods.
TOm:
Not that there is not 1000 things that are quite wrong on this thread that could be responded to, but I thought I would address this one.
The idea that God was once a man is not doctrinal. I suspect I am responsible for pointing this out repeadedly. It is doctrinal that God is infinate and eternal from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangable God (D+C 20). This does not mean that eternal progression is not true. It does not mean that the Lorenzo Snow couplet is not true. It means that we do not know very much about it as the current Prophet says.
The idea that we can become gods is doctrine. It is in the scriptures, including the Bible. The Early Church believed this, the Catholic and EO churches still believe this and so does the CoJCoLDS.
So, I invite everyone to know that it is at least true that Jesus was a man. Jesus is God. We are men, and we may become gods. Beyond this it is speculation and if president Hinckley says we do not know very much about that then we should believe him.
However, I do not deny there is truth in all of what Lorenzo Snow said, and that the second half is doctrinal by my understanding.
Charity, TOm
Most of the LDS that visit this board reject the doctrine that God was once like us and progressed to Godhood by doing good works and that people can become gods.
TOm:
Not that there is not 1000 things that are quite wrong on this thread that could be responded to, but I thought I would address this one.
The idea that God was once a man is not doctrinal. I suspect I am responsible for pointing this out repeadedly. It is doctrinal that God is infinate and eternal from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangable God (D+C 20). This does not mean that eternal progression is not true. It does not mean that the Lorenzo Snow couplet is not true. It means that we do not know very much about it as the current Prophet says.
The idea that we can become gods is doctrine. It is in the scriptures, including the Bible. The Early Church believed this, the Catholic and EO churches still believe this and so does the CoJCoLDS.
So, I invite everyone to know that it is at least true that Jesus was a man. Jesus is God. We are men, and we may become gods. Beyond this it is speculation and if president Hinckley says we do not know very much about that then we should believe him.
However, I do not deny there is truth in all of what Lorenzo Snow said, and that the second half is doctrinal by my understanding.
Charity, TOm
Upvote
0
Toms777
Contributor
- Nov 14, 2003
- 5,961
- 133
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
They can believe what they wish, but there is no basis for it. I spent a couple of weeks on the "Praise to the Man" thread trying to get anyone of the Mormons to show me where the Bible endorses the idea that men can become God or gods, and no one could provide any scriptural basis for such a belief.Wrigley said:
It is the lie of Satan that man should exalt himself to godhood.
Upvote
0
fatboys
Senior Veteran
Wrigley said:
We do not bring this up in any teaching in church or talks. We would not bring it up on any internet discussion board. You guys bring it up. As said billions of times, it is not doctrine, it never was doctrine. If it was doctrine, it would be within our canon of scriptures. But this does not change your mind. I mean if a born again told me that once you confessed Jesus your ticket to heaven is guaranteed without any effort of our own, I would believe him that is what he believed. If they said it was their doctrine, I would believe them. But no matter how many times we say it is not our doctrine you just ignore it.
Upvote
0
I do not try to have it both ways.
There is truth in Lorenzo Snows couplet even if it is just the fact that Jesus was man, Jesus is God, we are men, we can become gods. Beyond this, I do not know anything for sure. It is all guesses and speculation. And none of it is doctrinal.
Toms777,
Every Christian who existed before the Reformist distorted the meaning of the Bible by blatantly ignoring whole books knew that the Bible spoke of men becoming gods. It is you who cannot see the plain truths in the Bible.
2 Cor 8:9 was understood by the ECF to speak of deification.
2 Cor 8:9 is understood by LDS, Catholics, and EOs. To speak of deification.
2 Pet 1:3-4 was understood by the ECF to speak of deification
2 Pet 1:3-4 is understood by LDS, Catholics, and EOs to speak of deification.
I read the Bible with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. I read the Bible with the logic of men. So do Catholics so do EOs. So did pre-reformist Christians.
It is the reformists who have blinded you from the truth. No where in the Bible does it speak against deification. The Apostles taught the doctrine to the Early Church. The Catholic Church forgot it for a period of time, but they are awakening too. You are the one who cannot see the truth.
Charity, TOm
There is truth in Lorenzo Snows couplet even if it is just the fact that Jesus was man, Jesus is God, we are men, we can become gods. Beyond this, I do not know anything for sure. It is all guesses and speculation. And none of it is doctrinal.
Toms777,
Every Christian who existed before the Reformist distorted the meaning of the Bible by blatantly ignoring whole books knew that the Bible spoke of men becoming gods. It is you who cannot see the plain truths in the Bible.
2 Cor 8:9 was understood by the ECF to speak of deification.
2 Cor 8:9 is understood by LDS, Catholics, and EOs. To speak of deification.
2 Pet 1:3-4 was understood by the ECF to speak of deification
2 Pet 1:3-4 is understood by LDS, Catholics, and EOs to speak of deification.
I read the Bible with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. I read the Bible with the logic of men. So do Catholics so do EOs. So did pre-reformist Christians.
It is the reformists who have blinded you from the truth. No where in the Bible does it speak against deification. The Apostles taught the doctrine to the Early Church. The Catholic Church forgot it for a period of time, but they are awakening too. You are the one who cannot see the truth.
Charity, TOm
Upvote
0
Give up trying to get you to stop misrepresenting the CoJCoLDS?Wrigley said:
Is that what you are asking for him to give up?
The "Praise to the Man" thread was an amazing example of non-Mormons being willing to hold to their mischaracterization of the CoJCoLDS despite continued correction.
Joseph Smith is not equal to Jesus Christ and no LDS has ever taught this.
Charity, TOm
Upvote
0
happyinhisgrace
Blessed Trinity
You guys bring it up. As said billions of times, it is not doctrine, it never was doctrine. If it was doctrine, it would be within our canon of scriptures.
actually, the lds temple ceremony is not within your "cannon" of scriptures so does this mean it is not docterine too? Remember, teaching of the prophets are also considered "scripture"...I will dig into my files and see if I can find the quotes that support this. Of course it is (or at least WAS) lds docterine that man can become Gods, I find it very interesting that some lds are not only willing to admit that but happy about it and others him haw around it and try to deny the church ever taught such a thing as docterine.
God Bless,
Grace
actually, the lds temple ceremony is not within your "cannon" of scriptures so does this mean it is not docterine too? Remember, teaching of the prophets are also considered "scripture"...I will dig into my files and see if I can find the quotes that support this. Of course it is (or at least WAS) lds docterine that man can become Gods, I find it very interesting that some lds are not only willing to admit that but happy about it and others him haw around it and try to deny the church ever taught such a thing as docterine.
God Bless,
Grace
Upvote
0
fatboys
Senior Veteran
happyinhisgrace said:
FB: Oh for crying out loud. Not everything out of their mouths is scripture. You should know this. In order for them to be considered scriptures there is a process. If it does not go through this process, then they do not bind us to them. If you are speaking about early church leaders, they had the same understanding of the process. Each and ever conference we sustain the leaders of the church. If we sustain them, then we allow them to lead us. If you don't sustain them, then you don't have to follow them. You don't have to believe a word they say. But I have the right to follow the canon of scripture if I vote to follow it. Those of you that have left the church, have turned away from your promise to follow Christ. That you would take upon yourself his name, and to follow and obey his commandments, and to remember him always.
Although the Temple endowment is not in the four standard works, they were voted on and is part of the doctrine of the church. By the way, most of the endowment is in the scriptures.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
