Do gender roles still apply today?

stevevw

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Yes, flexibility can't be code for "the employer gets what they want but the employee's needs aren't met."
Not sure what you mean by employee's needs. I think its a compromise both ways.

I think that's probably been the case since the industrial revolution, and we're only arguing about which shape those pressures are going to take.
I think the pressures are inherent in the system and there's little we can do. Humans can only do so much. If the system demands people have to work long hours and 2 jobs to make ends meet then that is something fundamentally wrong with the system.

I recently read about the new idea floating around called the 'Great reset' where they say people will not have to work and yet have everything they need and will be happier than ever before. Though the idea sounds good I suspect there's a catch like giving up freedom or something. Bit like socialism.

Welcome To 2030: I Own Nothing, Have No Privacy And Life Has Never Been Better
 
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Ken-1122

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stevevw

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Under socialism, everybody works; they just don't own any thing.
Well I think this idea may be similar except I think they are claiming people will also have freedom. Some say its a step towards one world government. Certainly the climate is right for something like that happening. I am always weary of these ideas, there's always hidden agendas lol.
 
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Ken-1122

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Well I think this idea may be similar except I think they are claiming people will also have freedom. Some say its a step towards one world government. Certainly the climate is right for something like that happening. I am always weary of these ideas, there's always hidden agendas lol.
Nothing is free, SOMEBODY has to work. My mom used to say that the man throwing worms in the river is no friend of the fish, and the fish that eats the worm, unaware of the string and hook attached; usually ends up in the frying pan.
 
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stevevw

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Nothing is free, SOMEBODY has to work. My mom used to say that the man throwing worms in the river is no friend of the fish, and the fish that eats the worm, unaware of the string and hook attached; usually ends up in the frying pan.
I don't mean for free as in it costs nothing but that we will have freedom to move around and have a life. But you could apply the same logic in that no one is truly free to move around and have a life.
 
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Ken-1122

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I don't mean for free as in it costs nothing but that we will have freedom to move around and have a life. But you could apply the same logic in that no one is truly free to move around and have a life.
When I said free, that was in reference to the link you posted about "welcome to 2010" where nobody needs to buy anything because everything is free; nobody owns anything because nobody has to buy anything.
 
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stevevw

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When I said free, that was in reference to the link you posted about "welcome to 2010" where nobody needs to buy anything because everything is free; nobody owns anything because nobody has to buy anything.
You mentioned socialism and I was saying that the they claim unlike socialism people will still be free.
 
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Ken-1122

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You mentioned socialism and I was saying that the they claim unlike socialism people will still be free.
Yeah you can still have freedom under socialism; freedom of speech, freedom of press, etc is not affected under socialism because it's an economic system not a governmental system which means you just don't own anything, even though you've worked for everything.
 
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Ken-1122

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Yes, a lie. I don’t deal in grey areas.

Socialism is an ever-expanding, oiled up sliding scale where those who do not like certain facets of its doctrine decide to discard them as “incorrectly executed” or “no longer applicable”. It is literally the culmination of mastering goal post moving and suckering tender minds to make the rich richer in exchange for total trust in its system.

Socialism and communism are brothers and they do not take well to freedom of speech, writing, or thought because when higher thinkers are allowed to ponder the situation, it has a high probability they will turn against it. As such, smart people do not adopt socialism.

Socialism is also a religious system. Total trust in government detracts from total trust in God. God is our provider, not mother government.

In order to be truly socialist, the belief in God is contradictory. Socialism would place God and man on equal grounds in importance, which contradicts religion. When equality is your god, then GOD cannot be higher than men.

The assertion of an infinite, omnipotent and omniscient God clashes head-on with the principle of absolute equality. It must therefore be rejected. Indeed, what greater inequality is there than that between the Creator and simple creatures?

Karl Marx, the socialist daddy man, explained his contempt for all religion in his famous expression that religion is "the opium of the people”. His buddy Lenin further developed this idea. He belches, "Religion is opium for the people. Religion is a sort of spiritual booze in which the slaves of capital drown their human image, their demand for a life more or less worthy of man."

Sounds like a Christian bunch, doesn’t it?

Socialists also hold the belief that all must strive toward the largest possible amount of pleasure, and avoid any effort or suffering. As a result, all obstacles to happiness must be removed, chiefly religion.

Considering that satanism has several of these same ideals, would you say this has anything to do with Jesus?

This can be a rhetorical question to ponder on… or if you have some sort of proof that satanism and Jesus are actually the same thing, is up to you.

FYI, if you are wanting to debate, I do not pay attention to goal post moving. I will call it out as a lie and it will further frustrate you, so it wouldn’t be wise to try debating semantics. :oldthumbsup:
Humm…… IT sounds like you’re confusing Socialism with fascism
Definition of FASCISM
Or Totalitarianism.
Definition of TOTALITARIANISM
However if you are not, perhaps you can provide an outside source (link or something other than your word) that describes socialism as you have. Just because you say it, does not make it so.
 
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Humm…… IT sounds like you’re confusing Socialism with fascism
Definition of FASCISM
Or Totalitarianism.
Definition of TOTALITARIANISM
However if you are not, perhaps you can provide an outside source (link or something other than your word) that describes socialism as you have. Just because you say it, does not make it so.
If no man or no State can reach in to tax and confiscate property, man can enjoy true liberty and great security, whether he’s prosperous or poor. Every attack on private property is, therefore, an attack on man’s liberty.

Is it any wonder, therefore, that Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels declared in their 1848 Communist Manifesto, originally titled Manifesto of the Communist Party, that the right to hold individual private property was a crime against the State?
A Biblical View of Private Property - The American Vision

Autocratic dictators are a problem if they refuse to be governed by the law of God and become a law unto themselves.

There is nothing wrong with a nation looking out for its own interests, but when this happens to the detriment of other nations, it runs contrary to Scripture.

Racism is wrong in every instance and should be resisted by Christians both in the church and in the larger society. For this reason, a Christian should have no part in fascist organizations.
How should a Christian view fascism? | GotQuestions.org


What I am expressing here is that no, fascism and socialism/communism are not the same thing. However, there is no freedom in socialism/communism either because individuals don’t hold the right to private property.
 
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WintersDust

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Firstly, what is meant by the term “gender roles”? Do these roles pertain only to what is possible biologically? For example, some men produce seed, but no man produces eggs. Likewise, no woman produces seed, but some women produce eggs. Maybe it’s irrelevant to some because they think gender and sex mean different things. Christians, on the other hand, may have another consideration in mind. What about the institution of marriage designed by God to be between a man and a woman?

[But now, to get into the semantics of it. Do I acknowledge that some understand sex and gender to mean different things? Yes, I do. But that does not mean that I’m going to concede to the argument: If I agree that gender and sex mean different things, then I’m saying gender theory is correct. But the fact is, not all dictionary definitions agree on this.]

I would argue that yes gender roles are still relevant today. Some might counter this with a verse in Galatians where it says “there is neither…male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (See Gal 3:28) This is meaning something different. The apostle Paul was affirming what Jesus said, “an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth” (Jn 4:23). According to the Reformation Study Bible, “The ceremonial and sacrificial aspects of the law were…temporary and provisional.” So, Paul was instead emphasizing spiritual equality. The apostle also had in several letters, discussion on roles of husband and wife. (See 1 Co 11:3; Eph 5:21-33; Col 3:18-19; 1 Pe 3:1-7)

So again, Paul was emphasizing spiritual equality. This spiritual equality is not incompatible “with the God-ordained roles of headship and submission in the church, society, and the home.” (MacArthur Study Bible)

In other words, I do not see it as “gender” vs “nature”. Rather, the DNA inherent in males and females determines who we are; the roles we should live by are determined by the gender that our DNA says that we are.* Now, when I say “roles”, I mean conduct, and things that are commonly true of men and women.

Now when the Bible makes a prohibition of transvestitism (Deut. 22:5), some argue that this is a case against women in combat roles. The reason behind this interpretation is that women are the life-givers, nurturers. Also, it seems women don’t really have the issue of crossdressing generally, so it’s not to do with jeans. Quoting the Reformation Study Bible, “Women were not to adopt the accoutrements of the male (e.g., carrying weapons), and men were not to dress as women. The symbols of gender difference were to be respected, and while such symbols vary over time and from culture to culture, the principle of gender distinction remains (Gen. 1:27; cf. 1 Tim. 2:13).”

Men are to be leaders in the household
I’ve often wondered what that looks like. I know this is not to mean we condone men acting like tyrants. From a devotional titled, Spousal Roles, from Ligonier, “…that he will remember that she is a person and not to be run roughshod over when decisions are made. He will respect her opinion and work to compromise when necessary. Nevertheless, the two will not agree at times and in these cases the wife is called to submit insofar as she does not sin by doing so.” I also think that verses here, Ephesians 5:25-26, mean that men of their household are to take the initiative in godly devotion. While verse 21 does say that Christians are to submit to one another, Paul also teaches wives to submit to husbands, as to the Lord (v. 22).

Roles for the church
In the same way, pastors/elders are to be males. Paul, instructing Timothy about the office of overseer, rules out the polygamist, “the husband of one wife” (1Ti 3:2). Why is he only addressing male polygamists? It’s because he already made it clear in the previous chapter that women are not to be overseers/pastors/elders (and yes, I take all those words to mean the same thing). However, believing women are very much encouraged to preach to unbelievers; you don’t have to hold the title of pastor/teacher in order to evangelize the lost.

Societal roles
So if these “roles” relate to what is a general rule about men and women, why is the standard applied across the board? Some women are stronger than some men. However, it sounds like a terrible idea to have women drafted into war. So then, if men wield the sword and the civil magistrate wields the sword (see Ro 13:4), then does this apply to mayor, governor, city council, and Supreme Court justice to be only men? I’m just explaining how some interpret this. It’s relatively new that I’ve heard this perspective.

Conclusion
But I thought I might end with this, an article by Susan Hunt, The Goodness of Gender. —I asked our eight-year-old and eleven-year-old granddaughters, "Who is better—boys or girls?" There was immediate consensus: "Girls!" We had a Titus 2 sit-down. Ask them now and they will tell you, "Boys are better at being boys, girls are better at being girls, we are equal but different, and it is very good because God said so.”—

*But what about intersex conditions? some may counter. Doesn’t this make it uncertain that there are only two sexes? While there are rare diseases that make it appear that some males have XX chromosome pairs, or females with XY, these aren’t genuine mismatched chromosome pairs in the truest sense. Further analysis allows us to know what’s really happening. Swyers happens, when a female has what appears to be an XY sex chromosome pair, caused by mutation or deletion on important parts "of the segment of the Y chromosome containing the SRY gene." [quote by rarediseases.org] With de la Chapelle syndrome, a male with an XX pair, a translocation occurs, a piece of the SRY gene attaches with an X chromosome. Androgen insensitivity syndrome occurs in genetic males (XY). “Because their bodies are unable to respond to certain male sex hormones (called androgens), they may have mostly female external sex characteristics or signs of both male and female sexual development.” (From MedlinePlus) These conditions may not be noticed until puberty; they are infertile.
Well, if we go by what Facebook says there are over 50 ''gender roles''. And countless FB'ers who believe that.

There are but two genders. Male,female.
Men have estrogen in their physiology,body chemistry. Women, testosterone.
While human embryos have the precursors of both female and male gonads.

Two. Only two.

Male and female God created them.
 
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Socialism is fascism, that’s why it sounds so familiar to you.

The irony of this cannot be understated.
"In a fascist regime, private property can be confiscated at will, but this is true of many totalitarian regimes, not just fascist ones."

I think they are similar but not the same. With socialism there are no private property rights.

@WintersDust I'm not entirely sure of what you are saying, not all of it anyway, but I agree there are only two genders.
 
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Ken-1122

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Socialism is fascism, that’s why it sounds so familiar to you.

The irony of this cannot be overstated.
No it is not. Fascism is a political ideology; it has nothing to do with economics.
Definition of FASCISM

Socialism is an economic system, it has nothing to do with governing
Socialism - Wikipedia

Just because there has been fascist regimes that have adopted socialist economic policies does not mean they are the same thing. That would be like claiming Capitalism guarantees freedom of speech, assembly, and all the other things the American political system allows for.
 
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Enilorac

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I think they are similar but not the same. With socialism there are no private property rights.

No dear, that's communism. A basic definition of capitalism, socialism and communism is as follows:
Capitalism: Oligarchs own the means of production
Socialism: Workers own the means of production
Communism: The central government owns the means of production.

Fascism is a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
Definition of FASCISM

Capitalism: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

Socialism:
1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2
a
: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b
: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3
: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Communism:
1
a
: a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
b
: a theory advocating elimination of private property
2
capitalized
a
: a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Soviet Union
b
: a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production
c
: a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably
d
: communist systems collectively

It really wouldn't kill you to use a dictionary occasionally
 
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All Glory To God

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I don't think the other member was wrong for calling this post a lie and I will explain why.

Yeah you can still have freedom under socialism

First of all, Socialism is communism but simply packed in a different form. It goes by a different name and uses different methouds but the goals are still exactly the same. And if anyone is any doubt about the dangers of Communism, look to Soviet Russia, Cambodia under Pol Pot or North Korea where they have a communist style rule. Eliminating individual rights and targeting certain groups for persecution and even genocide. This is Socialism/communism!

freedom of speech, freedom of press, etc is not affected under socialism

Censorship debate can be a long discussion but the goal of Socialists is that governments should have the say on what is acceptable speech. Conservative people would argue that individuals should have the right to decide freedom of speech, expression and worship. Socialists view government as their ultimate higher power as most of them are Atheist and so are happy to give up individual liberty and obey their higher power. Most Conservative people affirm a God and that is their higher power, not a government.

See, it's mostly about the goals of these people. And the Socialists goal is to control people by powerful government with minimum or no individual rights. Always stay focused on what their goals to find out what their true intention is.

because it's an economic system not a governmental system which means you just don't own anything, even though you've worked for everything.

Well Communism/Socialism is a whole system. Economic, cultural, philosophical that leads to one place: This planet being used as a global plantation, with the vast majority of humanity used as cattle to serve the few elites in the control matrix. It promises the working class and the people at the bottom prosperity but never delivers....because it was never intended to serve the common people. It was a tool designed by a Jew to pull down and destroy competitive sovereign nations.

The correct response to Communism/Socialism is to fight against it and reverse the backward poisonous effects. Any decent person is capable of participating in the fight back against this great evil.
 
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Ken-1122

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I don't think the other member was wrong for calling this post a lie and I will explain why.
To lie is to give information that you know is false; usually for the purpose of deception. When he called me a liar, he was basically saying I was purposely spreading claims I knew is not true. He doesn’t know me well enough to make such an accusation, and neither do you. There is a big difference between being wrong, and lying.
Lie - Wikipedia
First of all, Socialism is communism but simply packed in a different form. It goes by a different name and uses different methouds but the goals are still exactly the same. And if anyone is any doubt about the dangers of Communism, look to Soviet Russia, Cambodia under Pol Pot or North Korea where they have a communist style rule. Eliminating individual rights and targeting certain groups for persecution and even genocide. This is Socialism/communism!
Yes! Soviet Russia was a Communist state, but it was also a totalitarian regime also; as well as North Korea and the others you mentioned.
List of totalitarian regimes - Wikipedia
Again; the act of eliminating individual rights and targeting specific groups for persecution is NOT an economic system, that is a governing system. Communism is an economic system, totalitarianism is a governing system.
Censorship debate can be a long discussion but the goal of Socialists is that governments should have the say on what is acceptable speech. Conservative people would argue that individuals should have the right to decide freedom of speech, expression and worship. Socialists view government as their ultimate higher power as most of them are Atheist and so are happy to give up individual liberty and obey their higher power. Most Conservative people affirm a God and that is their higher power, not a government.

See, it's mostly about the goals of these people. And the Socialists goal is to control people by powerful government with minimum or no individual rights. Always stay focused on what their goals to find out what their true intention is.

Well Communism/Socialism is a whole system. Economic, cultural, philosophical that leads to one place: This planet being used as a global plantation, with the vast majority of humanity used as cattle to serve the few elites in the control matrix. It promises the working class and the people at the bottom prosperity but never delivers....because it was never intended to serve the common people. It was a tool designed by a Jew to pull down and destroy competitive sovereign nations.

The correct response to Communism/Socialism is to fight against it and reverse the backward poisonous effects. Any decent person is capable of participating in the fight back against this great evil.
Notice how when I made a point, I provided a link or an outside source to back up my claim? You should do the same; if you are going to claim Socialism is a system of governing rather than just an economic system, you need to provide an outside source that supports this claim; otherwise you are just making empty claims.
 
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