Do evolutionists really understand the complexity of things?

[OldWiseGuy]

I

It is called "mutation". All offspring differ slightly from their parents. Example:
A child born in a dense jungle environment and has the genetic mutation that will make it grow tall will have a severe disadvantage compared to its brethren who are short. Pygmies can move much more easily in dense jungle than tall people. The oposite is true of savannah dwelling people who are taller.
Any mutation that gives an advantage will help the life form survive long enough to procreate and pass on its genes.
This is how evolution works. Without mutation (DNA replication does not produce exact and perfect copies) there can be no evolution and should the environment change due to disease or other changes then the species is doomed to extinction.
A case in point is: Not everyone dies from a deadly disease. Some people or life forms have immunity or resistance due to a mutation.

You just waved my question away.

 

[Speedwell]

You just waved my question away.

He's trying to answer it. I don't know why he is bothering--I tried answering, too, and you blew me off--but maybe you could interact a little rather than expecting it on a plate.
The concept of random variation and natural selection answers what you are asking if you would pay attention and ask follow up questions that were more than rhetorical. Do you really want to know how it works, or just prove to yourself that it can't?

Which came first; the chicken or the egg?
The egg. Egg-laying creatures were ancestors to the chicken.

 

[Loudmouth]

Complexity is evidence against evolution because the universe in too complex to have happened by accident. It is evidence of intelligent design.

Where is the evidence to back your claim?

Also, do you know where babies come from? Do you know what biological reproduction is? Do you think it is just an accident that offspring share their parents' DNA?

The rings of Saturn are complex. Did they have to be designed?

The rich and complex atmospheric patterns on Jupiter? Were those designed?

 

[rjs330]

I do not understand what your metric of "too" implies.

Further.....is a snowflake "too complex"? Does some unseen intelligence individually design snowflakes? Or can their crystalline formations be explained by the laws of physics?

Laws of physics are laws of nature as established by God in creation. I ts all part of the complexity of the universe and nature. Just like the bible claims.

 

[rjs330]

I

It is called "mutation". All offspring differ slightly from their parents. Example:
A child born in a dense jungle environment and has the genetic mutation that will make it grow tall will have a severe disadvantage compared to its brethren who are short. Pygmies can move much more easily in dense jungle than tall people. The oposite is true of savannah dwelling people who are taller.
Any mutation that gives an advantage will help the life form survive long enough to procreate and pass on its genes.
This is how evolution works. Without mutation (DNA replication does not produce exact and perfect copies) there can be no evolution and should the environment change due to disease or other changes then the species is doomed to extinction.
A case in point is: Not everyone dies from a deadly disease. Some people or life forms have immunity or resistance due to a mutation.

Preposterous! Yes offspring are different than parents. It's a built in part of creation so we are not all clones. It's an amazing part of God's design. Look around you. Every tree every stone every grain of sand is unique. The complexity all screams design. It does not scream that all there is just happened by accident from a common ancestor.

 

[rjs330]

Where is the evidence to back your claim?

Also, do you know where babies come from? Do you know what biological reproduction is? Do you think it is just an accident that offspring share their parents' DNA?

The rings of Saturn are complex. Did they have to be designed?

The rich and complex atmospheric patterns on Jupiter? Were those designed?

A little condescending. If course parents pass DNA to offspring. Reproduction is another amazing process that speaks of the complexity of life and how impossible it is to have happened by chance. Another reason to believe in intelligent design.

 

[Speedwell]

It does not scream that all there is just happened by accident from a common ancestor.

What do you mean by "accident?" Is the orderly process of variation and selection an"accident?"

 

[Loudmouth]

Laws of physics are laws of nature as established by God in creation.

Evidence, please.

 

[Loudmouth]

A little condescending. If course parents pass DNA to offspring. Reproduction is another amazing process that speaks of the complexity of life and how impossible it is to have happened by chance. Another reason to believe in intelligent design.

You still don't understand that evolution is not chance?

 

[Loudmouth]

Preposterous! Yes offspring are different than parents. It's a built in part of creation so we are not all clones. It's an amazing part of God's design.

Evidence?

The complexity all screams design. It does not scream that all there is just happened by accident from a common ancestor.

Evolution is not accidents.

 

[Mobezom]

I'm a bit concerned about anybody who hears abstract concepts screaming. Or anything that isn't alive, for that matter.

 

[SteveB28]

Laws of physics are laws of nature as established by God in creation. I ts all part of the complexity of the universe and nature. Just like the bible claims.

You have several problems there....

As Loudmouth succinctly indicates, you are making a vacuous claim that the laws of physics were put in place by a god. You have no evidence at all to support such a claim.

Secondly, those laws are not so "complex". We understand most of them quite readily. Many of them are introduced to students in my country at a junior high school level.

Thirdly, even if you are correct and those laws were 'put in place' by a god, the fact remains that those laws alone explain, for example, the formation of the crystalline shapes of snowflakes........the intervention of a god is simply not required!

 

[Mobezom]

That sounds rather like a "God of the Gaps", though - we don't know why the universe can support life, so we suppose a God that made it so and then left it alone. The anthropic principle would be better.

Of course, I'm only arguing against the temporary, for-sake-of-argument supposition that you used. *tilts at another invisible windmill*

 

[Loudmouth]

Thirdly, even if you are correct and those laws were 'put in place' by a god, the fact remains that those laws alone explain, for example, the formation of the crystalline shapes of snowflakes........the intervention of a god is simply not required!

And to add to this excellent point, the entire ID/Creationist argument is that natural processes can not explain the complexity we see in organisms.

 

[rjs330]

Evidence, please.

It's in,front of your face, but you refuse to,see it. It's a law. Laws do not happen by chance.

 

[Loudmouth]

It's in,front of your face, but you refuse to,see it. It's a law. Laws do not happen by chance.

That is a claim. Where is the evidence that laws do not happen by chance?

 

[rjs330]

What do you mean by "accident?" Is the orderly process of variation and selection an"accident?"

Evolution from one thing to another is either chance or design. Since DNA,,molecules and all the microscopic things that exist do not have brains they cannot make decisions. They cannot decide that they want to evolve into something they are not already therefore it is chance. Only things with intelligence can choose to change into something specific. Everything else is chance of change that happens to be beneficial.

Like I have said before, God could have decided to create by evolution by setting the laws of nature in place to do so. That too would have been intelligent design. BUT the bible says he didn't.

 

[rjs330]

You have several problems there....

As Loudmouth succinctly indicates, you are making a vacuous claim that the laws of physics were put in place by a god. You have no evidence at all to support such a claim.

Secondly, those laws are not so "complex". We understand most of them quite readily. Many of them are introduced to students in my country at a junior high school level.

Thirdly, even if you are correct and those laws were 'put in place' by a god, the fact remains that those laws alone explain, for example, the formation of the crystalline shapes of snowflakes........the intervention of a god is simply not required!

Yes it is for without God those laws would not exist.

 

[Speedwell]

Evolution from one thing to another is either chance or design. Since DNA,,molecules and all the microscopic things that exist do not have brains they cannot make decisions. They cannot decide that they want to evolve into something they are not already therefore it is chance. Only things with intelligence can choose to change into something specific. Everything else is chance of change that happens to be beneficial.

Right. Evolution does not "decide" anything, it just evolves. But your statement about changing into something "specific" is interesting. Species are not pre-existing categories into which creatures evolve. They are just what happens as a consequence of adaptation to the environment.

Like I have said before, God could have decided to create by evolution by setting the laws of nature in place to do so.

Yet here you are arguing that evolution driven by natural laws is impossible.

 

[SteveB28]

Yes it is for without God those laws would not exist.

You make the claim, but provide no evidentiary support. Why should we believe what you say....?



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