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Featured Do Dispensationalists share in the guilt of bloodshed related to Israel?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Dave L, Nov 8, 2019.

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  1. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Do Dispensationalists share in the guilt of bloodshed related to Israel?

    I’m interested in how their support for the State of Israel fits into the plan to preach the gospel to all nations.

    Paul teaches all of God’s promises are yes in Jesus. How can the ancient promises apply to those who exist solely because of their hatred and rejection of Jesus?

    Does Dispensationalism teach two gospels? One for the church and another based on OT Law for the Jews? Where in the future another temple will replace the gospel with Judaism?

    I have many more questions. But these first come to mind.
     
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  2. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    Gospel means "good news". From this perspective, there are more than 2 types of good news preached throughout the Bible.

    For example, the good news preached to Abraham was based on Genesis 12

    Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

    2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

    3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

    This "good news" was not valid for the Jews, nor us now.
     
  3. public hermit

    public hermit Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have similar questions, I think. I am not sure if this is considered Dispensationalist, because I'm not real familiar: I have heard Christians say they are hoping for the temple to be rebuilt and the sacrificial system re-instated. To me, that makes no sense coming from a Christian. Why would they want the sacrificial system put back in place? Was the sacrifice of our Lord not sufficient? Has their eschatological ponderings overshadowed their grasp of the efficaciousness of the cross? It's strange to me, but maybe I am missing something. It has happened before.

    Edit: I can't make a determination concerning bloodguilt. Guilty of faulty judgment or bad hermeneutics, maybe.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  4. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. Please elaborate.
     
  5. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Explain what you mean by "solely."
     
  6. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    State of Israel aside, can you show me in scripture where the Great Commission (any of the 3 versions) was spoken to gentile believers?
     
  7. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Jews who accepted Christ remained Israel. Those who rejected him hated him and continued building on this hatred. Forming a false Judaism around it.
     
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  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Paul?
     
  9. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Here is Paul's version of the Great Commission, addressed to gentiles:

    Romans 11
    11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?​

    The going to the nations with the gospel was primarily given to Jewish believers. And that goes all the way back to Moses.

    Exodus 19:6
    and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel.”​

    Priests to whom? The other nations, just as Levi were priests to the rest of Israel. The prophets expanded on that thought:

    Isaiah 42:6
    “I am the Lord, I have called You in righteousness, I will also hold You by the hand and watch over You, And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the nations,​

    So what are we gentile believers to do? Make the wayward of Israel JEALOUS so they can fulfill their calling and anointing from God to bring the gospel to the nations.

    So tell me Dave, what are YOU doing to make traditional Jews jealous of what you have?
     
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  10. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Valid Jews (circumcised before Calvary) remained legal biblical Jews until they died off.
     
  11. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Romans 11:28
    From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
     
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  12. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Chapter and verse that clarifies this?
     
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  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Study Circumcision in the OT. And what it meant. And study how Jesus abolished it as a Jewish rite on the cross.
     
  14. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Most non-Messianic Jews just don't recognize Him at all, He means nothing to them. I don't see how Judaism has anything to do with Jesus or hatred towards Him.
    If you are referring to who is a true Jew/Israel then I understand where you are going but I don't see how that can be construed to mean a false Judaism, the religion of Judaism.
     
  15. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But all the promises are Yes in Jesus.
     
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Israel accepted Christ. Those who rejected him are Antichrists by John's definition. And became gentiles having been removed from Israel in unbelief.
     
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  17. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This I agree with.
     
  18. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    SOME of Israel accepted the Messiah
    More properly, function in the spirit of antichrist. Not that they themselves are antichrist.
    That is totally unbiblical and a lie from hell. Remember, the gifts and callings of God are IRREVOCABLE. If the Jewish people are Israel, they are that FOREVER.
     
  19. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Those who rejected Christ are not biblical Israel.
     
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  20. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, I believe it does. To return to animal sacrifices for atonement, old covenant law, is in direct conflict with everything that is the new covenant.
    The author of Hebrews warns the Hebrew believers not to fall back into those old covenant sacrifices. See Hebrews 10 and especially this verse.

    Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
     
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