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DO CHILDREN GO TO HEAVEN ?

John tower

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Amen. Many evangelicals just do not understand or what to deny what is really in Scripture and will pretzel their way into saying that Scripture does not say that Baptism and Salvation are connected.
 
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John tower

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What specific verse talks about infant baptism : Not a verse that you have to twist , but specifically states infant baptism
 
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John tower

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This is not scriptures , and as such irrelevent !!
 
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John tower

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Such as these means that we
must be humble like these to enter heaven Talking about humility not the children , but humility needed to enter the kingdom
 
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John tower

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If Children do not go to heaven, what do you believe happens to them? are their other options besides the heaven and hell scenarios?
Very good questions : do you have any scriptures that may shed light on this topic : would be very interested
 
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Halbhh

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Such as these means that we
must be humble like these to enter heaven Talking about humility not the children , but humility needed to enter the kingdom
That's right. Little children have this required humility.

We have to change and become like them in this way.

The Matthew 19, v14 verse though helps answer this question.
 
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Strong in Him

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Yes it does. Scripture says so. He died for us, the least we can do is listen to Him

He died for us and his saving death alone is enough. No one can add anything to it.

You seem to be saying that if someone heard the Gospel, was born again and filled with the Spirit but then died before they could be baptised, they wouldn't be saved and would be judged to be an unbeliever.
Or if someone received Christ on their death bed, it would have been useless without baptism.
 
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Strong in Him

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I think I told you what I believe you are doing with Scripture.

You did; I don't agree.
1. I gave Scripture which shows the character of God; he IS love, 1 John 4:8, he is compassionate, merciful etc Exodus 34:6. Those are only two verses; if you want me to quote other verses and passages that show his love and compassion, I will do so.
2. I asked 2 questions: how does sending babies to hell fit with the Scriptures that speak of God's love and compassion; how does that fit with Scriptural teaching about God as a perfect, loving heavenly Father? Seems to me that you can't answer that, so you just throw out the "human reasoning" line.
3. You use the phrase "human reasoning" as if it's a sin or a wrong thing. God gave us our minds and he wants us to use them. Jesus told us to love God with all of our mind, Paul told us not to conform to the world but to have our minds renewed. When he went to the synagogues, he spent many hours reasoning with people and teaching from Scripture.


It doesn't go against my theories.
You have found a Scripture that you believe shows that God hates. It doesn't. God CHOSE Jacob to be the father of the 12 tribes and ancestor of Jesus; at the time, people thought that if you were chosen by God it was evidence that he loved you, whereas if you weren't chosen, it must mean that he hated you.
So you believe that God can hate?
What of the Scriptures that say that God is love, and 1 Corinthians 13 which lists the attributes of love? Or 1 John 1:5 which says that God is light and there is no darkness in him at all?
Or Matthew 5:48 where Jesus says that God is perfect?

You are doing what you accuse me of doing. You have theories and are finding verses of Scripture which you say supports them.
Scripture does not contradict itself. It, and Jesus who IS the Word, reveal to us what God is like. And I don't believe that what is revealed is a god who says "you died before you you could know me; I'm condemning you for not knowing me".
 
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Hazelelponi

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There is a lot of wishful human reasoning in that post. God judges the unborn; we cannot. We do have certain assurances in the cases of infants of believing families however.

And there is a lot of Pharisaical reasoning in your posts.

Certainly I've never placed myself in the seat of judge, jury and executioner of the unborn - I figure that's quite clear as I'm not preaching them into hell either.

What I am doing is reading the scriptures with a clear understanding of God and the nature of sin; what I'm not doing is taking verses out of context because I neither understand nor trust God.

Just because something is not in black and white doesn't mean you cannot trust God.

Jesus said how blessed those are who would believe without seeing; when you know the nature of God, when you know the love of God, when you know what judgment is about, when you know the reason for baptism - you don't have to fear..
 
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Hawkins

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Yes, O.T. Covenant stands to the end as Matthew clearly states...I object to your guessing judgement based on Old Covenant and I Corinthians 7 covers babes of believers as does Psalm 22.

Law never ends, not until the final judgment. That's when it will apply. You have a very wrong concept about what law and covenants are.
 
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bling

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God allows: satan to roam the earth, tragedies of all kinds, and sin to happen, which helps man in fulfilling his earthly objective.

A parent does not want their child to fall while learning to ride a bike but knows it will happen at some time and the child will learn something from these falls.

We do disagree with “…as if that was His only choice or option.” Which will take lots of words to explain (forgive me).

God’s choice is always the very best choice, so it is the only choice He will make.

Do you agree with this: God knew Adam and Eve would eventually sin (God could have build a fence around the tree and guarded it to keep them from sinning), so what was the reason they were being allowed to sin?

Adam was made “very good” which by God’s standard would be as good as man could be made, but Adam was not a clone of Christ and God could not make a being who always existed (Christ), so in that respect God cannot do “everything”?

Man’s objective is not “to never ever sin”, All mature adults sin.

Sin itself is not “the problem”, while unforgiven sin can be a huge problem, but God does not want us to sin, so it is a problem. The really big problem for man is with fulfilling his objective. So we need to understand the objective.

Our mission statement is given by God as a command: “Love God (and secondly others) with all your heart, soul, mind and energy. To fulfill that mission, we must first obtain a Godly type Love since Loving completely goes way beyond man’s ability to develop, learn or pay back.

Godly type Love is not instinctive to man (that would be a robotic type love) and God can not force this Love on us (like with a shotgun wedding and God holding the shotgun) because that would not be Loving on God’s part and “love” obtained in such a way would not be Godly type Love.

Godly type Love must be a free underserving gift to man humbly accepted (not forced on man) as pure charity by an autonomous free will choice of man. The only way I seen this has happened and know how it could happen is by what Jesus explained to us with “…he that is forgiven much Loves much…”. If we humbly accept as pure charity God’s forgiveness of an unbelievable huge debt (created by sinning) we will automatically obtain an unbelievable huge Love (Godly type Love).

That Love can grow with use and can become all controlling like it is with God, so we become like God Himself in that we Love like God.

But as you can see “to be forgiven” we must first sin (which we do). It would be great if we could obtain Godly type Love without sinning, but there is no way.

will try to address more latter.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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I do not wish to offend you or anyone on this forum, but we are called to "tell it like it is" which to some is offensive...not meaning that anyone person is always in the right but rather that their right is almost always wrong to someone.
I only have so much time to devote to these forums and this thread. I am not handy with the line-by-line response. I depend on others reading my posts to other individuals as well so as to understand my position...usually, unless its easy to go back and forth with someone.
I will summarize my position here b/c you sound so offended and it is a response to some of your position...
God is a Righteous Judge (sometimes His ways or His thoughts are not our ways or our thoughts, but we have faith and take heart that He will deal rightly and judge rightly.)
We see some hints of God's justice in this matter in certain passages like Psalm 22:9-10, I Corinthians 7:14 and Acts 2:39. I would suppose there are other passages as well to explain my position.
This is all that comes to mind for now and you may wish to respond, but I'm finished.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Just as I have already responded to someone with likewise beliefs, I respond to you. This is copy/pasted from my other post:
I do not wish to offend you or anyone on this forum, but we are called to "tell it like it is" which to some is offensive...not meaning that anyone person is always in the right but rather that their right is almost always wrong to someone.
I only have so much time to devote to these forums and this thread. I am not handy with the line-by-line response. I depend on others reading my posts to other individuals as well so as to understand my position...usually, unless its easy to go back and forth with someone.
I will summarize my position here b/c you sound so offended and it is a response to some of your position...
God is a Righteous Judge (sometimes His ways or His thoughts are not our ways or our thoughts, but we have faith and take heart that He will deal rightly and judge rightly.)
We see some hints of God's justice in this matter in certain passages like Psalm 22:9-10, I Corinthians 7:14 and Acts 2:39. I would suppose there are other passages as well to explain my position.
This is all that comes to mind for now and you may wish to respond, but I'm finished.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Law never ends, not until the final judgment. That's when it will apply. You have a very wrong concept about what law and covenants are.
I thought I was clear in citing Matthew to say I agree that Law never ends. No my concepts (mentally at least) are not wrong, but I agree I wrote this post in haste and it does sound like I was quite confused.
Law does record adulthood for us, but even children and infants are accountable in the final judgement in my view based on Psalm 22 and the account of Jacob and Esau and the demonstration/symbolism used in the OT where God commanded that the sinful nations surrounding Israel as they entered Canaan were to be utterly destroyed...including women, children and animals. Also, Revelation doesn't make room for another route.
 
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Hawkins

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It's ok. You are entitled to your opinions.
 
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Hazelelponi

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I'm perfectly happy to agree to disagree on the matter.

I would like to point out, however, that nowhere in the Bible does Baptism precede belief.

God bless you.
 
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Halbhh

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We should trust Christ instead of our own reasoning, of course, right. What did He say about little children?

"But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these." (Luke ch 18, Matthew ch 19, Mark ch 10)

Since the Kingdom of God, Heaven (Matthew 19:14), belongs to such as little children already, the question is how you and me can change and become more like them.

And we know we must in fact --

"At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me."


From these, we can surmise that just as others have written in this thread, God will show mercy to little children that die without having heard of Christ.

Consider what Paul wrote in Romans about those without knowledge of the gospel:

6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”a 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)16This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."

A fair and exacting standard that few adults could do well on their own....

So....What about little children then in light of this?

--> "... And where there is no law there is no transgression." (Romans 4:15)

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. (Romans 5:13)
 
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