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No it doesn't.
Amen. Many evangelicals just do not understand or what to deny what is really in Scripture and will pretzel their way into saying that Scripture does not say that Baptism and Salvation are connected.
What specific verse talks about infant baptism : Not a verse that you have to twist , but specifically states infant baptismSorry, I hope you do not mind, but I rated your post as funny, something this serious guy rarely does. Your line about getting babies wet was a unique one, in terms of our discussion anyway. However, it should be pointed out that the bulk of Christianity believes in infant baptism and includes: Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Anglicans (Episcopal), Lutherans, Presbyterians and United Methodists.
This is not scriptures , and as such irrelevent !!On Day 6 our Lord Jesus Christ asks of us to bring to Him the Souls of the meek and humble and the Souls of His Little Children and immerse them in the Ocean of His Mercy. I also immerse all of the hearts and souls of Gods little Children in our Lrod Jesus Christs Holy Sacred Wounds and in His Precious Holy Blood and Jesus asks of us to immerse and Consecrate the hearts and souls of all Children and infants in His Holy Sacred heart and in Holy Mother Marys Holy Immaculate Heart through His Holy Saints and through Holy Saint Marie Chambon for their Conversions and Salvation.
Pretty much every day the Souls of Infants and Children are being immersed in our Lord Jesus Ocean of Mercy around the world daily in His Holy Divine Mercy Novena and prayed for in The Most Holy Rosary. Thank our Blessed Holy Trinity and thank Holy Mother Mary for this.
Such as these means that weHopefully it's been answered already, but if not then here:
14Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”
In fact we cannot ourselves go to heaven unless we become like them--
3And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become : like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me. "
Very good questions : do you have any scriptures that may shed light on this topic : would be very interestedIf Children do not go to heaven, what do you believe happens to them? are their other options besides the heaven and hell scenarios?
That's right. Little children have this required humility.Such as these means that we
must be humble like these to enter heaven Talking about humility not the children , but humility needed to enter the kingdom
Yes it does. Scripture says so. He died for us, the least we can do is listen to Him
I think I told you what I believe you are doing with Scripture.
Here's a Scripture section which goes against your "theories"...
Romans 9:10-14:
Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
There is a lot of wishful human reasoning in that post. God judges the unborn; we cannot. We do have certain assurances in the cases of infants of believing families however.
Yes, O.T. Covenant stands to the end as Matthew clearly states...I object to your guessing judgement based on Old Covenant and I Corinthians 7 covers babes of believers as does Psalm 22.
God allows: satan to roam the earth, tragedies of all kinds, and sin to happen, which helps man in fulfilling his earthly objective.No. God never desired man to sin so as to fulfill man's Earthly objective (if that is what you are saying).
No. God did not employ the devil or sin in order to help man fulfill man's objective. God can no more plan anything evil than for rain not to be wet. Yes, God gave man free will and God was aware of what was going to happen, but God did not plan or set up man to specifically sin as if that was his only choice or option. God did not desire man to sin.
I do not wish to offend you or anyone on this forum, but we are called to "tell it like it is" which to some is offensive...not meaning that anyone person is always in the right but rather that their right is almost always wrong to someone.You did; I don't agree.
1. I gave Scripture which shows the character of God; he IS love, 1 John 4:8, he is compassionate, merciful etc Exodus 34:6. Those are only two verses; if you want me to quote other verses and passages that show his love and compassion, I will do so.
2. I asked 2 questions: how does sending babies to hell fit with the Scriptures that speak of God's love and compassion; how does that fit with Scriptural teaching about God as a perfect, loving heavenly Father? Seems to me that you can't answer that, so you just throw out the "human reasoning" line.
3. You use the phrase "human reasoning" as if it's a sin or a wrong thing. God gave us our minds and he wants us to use them. Jesus told us to love God with all of our mind, Paul told us not to conform to the world but to have our minds renewed. When he went to the synagogues, he spent many hours reasoning with people and teaching from Scripture.
It doesn't go against my theories.
You have found a Scripture that you believe shows that God hates. It doesn't. God CHOSE Jacob to be the father of the 12 tribes and ancestor of Jesus; at the time, people thought that if you were chosen by God it was evidence that he loved you, whereas if you weren't chosen, it must mean that he hated you.
So you believe that God can hate?
What of the Scriptures that say that God is love, and 1 Corinthians 13 which lists the attributes of love? Or 1 John 1:5 which says that God is light and there is no darkness in him at all?
Or Matthew 5:48 where Jesus says that God is perfect?
You are doing what you accuse me of doing. You have theories and are finding verses of Scripture which you say supports them.
Scripture does not contradict itself. It, and Jesus who IS the Word, reveal to us what God is like. And I don't believe that what is revealed is a god who says "you died before you you could know me; I'm condemning you for not knowing me".
Just as I have already responded to someone with likewise beliefs, I respond to you. This is copy/pasted from my other post:And there is a lot of Pharisaical reasoning in your posts.
Certainly I've never placed myself in the seat of judge, jury and executioner of the unborn - I figure that's quite clear as I'm not preaching them into hell either.
What I am doing is reading the scriptures with a clear understanding of God and the nature of sin; what I'm not doing is taking verses out of context because I neither understand nor trust God.
Just because something is not in black and white doesn't mean you cannot trust God.
Jesus said how blessed those are who would believe without seeing; when you know the nature of God, when you know the love of God, when you know what judgment is about, when you know the reason for baptism - you don't have to fear..
I thought I was clear in citing Matthew to say I agree that Law never ends. No my concepts (mentally at least) are not wrong, but I agree I wrote this post in haste and it does sound like I was quite confused.Law never ends, not until the final judgment. That's when it will apply. You have a very wrong concept about what law and covenants are.
I thought I was clear in citing Matthew to say I agree that Law never ends. No my concepts (mentally at least) are not wrong, but I agree I wrote this post in haste and it does sound like I was quite confused.
Law does record adulthood for us, but even children and infants are accountable in the final judgement in my view based on Psalm 22 and the account of Jacob and Esau and the demonstration/symbolism used in the OT where God commanded that the sinful nations surrounding Israel as they entered Canaan were to be utterly destroyed...including women, children and animals. Also, Revelation doesn't make room for another route.
Just as I have already responded to someone with likewise beliefs, I respond to you. This is copy/pasted from my other post:
I do not wish to offend you or anyone on this forum, but we are called to "tell it like it is" which to some is offensive...not meaning that anyone person is always in the right but rather that their right is almost always wrong to someone.
I only have so much time to devote to these forums and this thread. I am not handy with the line-by-line response. I depend on others reading my posts to other individuals as well so as to understand my position...usually, unless its easy to go back and forth with someone.
I will summarize my position here b/c you sound so offended and it is a response to some of your position...
God is a Righteous Judge (sometimes His ways or His thoughts are not our ways or our thoughts, but we have faith and take heart that He will deal rightly and judge rightly.)
We see some hints of God's justice in this matter in certain passages like Psalm 22:9-10, I Corinthians 7:14 and Acts 2:39. I would suppose there are other passages as well to explain my position.
This is all that comes to mind for now and you may wish to respond, but I'm finished.
I thought I was clear in citing Matthew to say I agree that Law never ends. No my concepts (mentally at least) are not wrong, but I agree I wrote this post in haste and it does sound like I was quite confused.
Law does record adulthood for us, but even children and infants are accountable in the final judgement in my view based on Psalm 22 and the account of Jacob and Esau and the demonstration/symbolism used in the OT where God commanded that the sinful nations surrounding Israel as they entered Canaan were to be utterly destroyed...including women, children and animals. Also, Revelation doesn't make room for another route.
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