DO CHILDREN GO TO HEAVEN ?

[DK7]

Here is the thing about where children or any human Soul goes who are not saved, in the King James Bible it says:
Romans 5:12 (King James Version):
12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 (King James Version):
8. In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9. Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

The sinner, unsaved, will go to Hell for eternity to endure physical pain, suffering eternally.
Everyone inherited the tainted, sinful blood from Adam, who was the first to sin. So, then because of Adam's sin, everyone would be condemned. However we read the following verse:

Romans 5:19 (King James Version):
19. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Therefore, because of Jesus' obedience to God and Jesus' shedding of his Blood on the cross; the sinner is forgiven of his sins if he trusts in the Blood of Jesus Christ for salvation.

Now, going back to the question if children go to heaven? If children do go to heaven, regardless of whether they are born with sin, then wouldn't it be better if we all died as children?? If this was the case then why even bother living into adulthood. If the Bible says that "All" have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, then that indicates that no matter how old you are, you are a sinner.
The good news is that Jesus Christ did all the work for us to redeem us and make us reconciled once more with God, our Father. All we have to do is Trust and believe in the Blood of Jesus Christ.

The following verse is guaranteed we have eternal life in Heaven, IF, we believe and Trust in the Blood of Jesus Christ to save us:

1 John 5:13 (King James Version):
13. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

May God Bless You and Keep You, Eternally! - AMEN

 

[Strong in Him]

You sound as though you are trying to make me out to be some really bad guy.

??
I didn't say anything of the sort.

YDid you comprehend what I said? God is the righteous judge of the unborn and born alike...

Yes, I know what you said.
To be honest though I was responding more to your previous post, where someone suggested reading my post #84, and you responded by saying "there is a lot of human reasoning in that post". No, there was Scripture.

And, to be honest again, I think I was a bit hasty when I said "true". It IS for God to judge, not us - but you tell me what a 3 month old foetus or 10 minute old baby has done that they need to be judged on.

Do not go beyond what is written...I Corinthians 4:6

I've given Scripture to back my words and show my thinking; as far as I know, no one has yet responded to it.

God created all of us; babies and toddlers too, in his image. He is love, merciful, compassionate etc; why would he judge them as being evil sinners and send them to hell, because they hadn't lived long enough to meet God, learn they were sinners, repent and be saved?

Do not add to his words,

I wasn't.
Psalm 138:2 says that the Lord has exalted above all things his name and his word. His name is highly exalted; higher than almost anything.
When God his Moses in the rock, passed before him and told him his name, Exodus 33:19, what did he say;
"The Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love", Exodus 34:6.
God's name is compassion, grace, love. Tell me, how it is compassionate to send babies to hell?

 

[Strong in Him]

Not at all. Baptism is required for salvation as scriptures clearly teaches.

No it doesn't.
That would be saying that Jesus' death isn't enough. Salvation is never Jesus + ..... Jesus alone saves.

 

[Loren T.]

God is the only one who can change hearts (Psalm 51:5; Ezekiel 36:26; Ephesians 2:1-10) … not a person ability to comprehend as decision theology basic premise rests on.

Infants and children are to be baptized because they are included in the Lord’s command to baptize “all nations” (Matthew 28:19-20), they have a need for forgiveness (Psalm 51:5) and they can believe through the power of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 18:6; Luke 18:15-17).

Jesus taught "flesh gives birth to flesh" which Scripture also teaches the nature of flesh as being:

"The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so." Romans 8:6-7
​

There is no Scripture that teaches a baby is born with the mind governed by the Spirit.
Subsequently Baptism is not something we do for God rather it's God doing something to the individual being baptized.

None of those scriptures have to do with infant baptism. Romans 10: 9-10 If a child can believe in his heart and confess with his mouth that Jesus is Lord, by all means, baptism is appropriate. But he is saved through Christ alone. Not by any ritual. The danger is that many think that because they were baptized as infants, thier salvation is insured. No different than the Jews who trusted the law instead of Christ.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No it doesn't.
That would be saying that Jesus' death isn't enough. Salvation is never Jesus + ..... Jesus alone saves.

Everytime Jesus saves someone, they get immersed in His Name obedient to Him.
If they don't, then they might have lied about trusting Him, and remained unsaved, outside of Jesus.

Trusting Jesus to be saved, good. Trust Him and be immersed as He Says. Good.

Is someone says "I'm in the US ARMY" but did not sign on the dotted line, or refused to go thru the protocol to sign up, and thru bootcamp, etc,
then just saying they are in the US ARMY does not make it so.

Those who follow Jesus in Salvation, do as He says - He leads.

Those who follow someone else, do not do as Jesus says, they remain lost.

 

[Loren T.]

So a 90 year old women who can't get out of bed but trusts Jesus for the first time has to be immersed or she remains lost?
Sacramentalism is adding something to salvation other than Christ's blood.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So a 90 year old women who can't get out of bed but trusts Jesus for the first time has to be immersed or she remains lost?
Sacramentalism is adding something to salvation other than Christ's blood.

Read Foxes Book of Martyrs for better examples, for true examples of faith.
There may also be other witnesses for you, Yahweh knows (ask Him),
so that you can believe and trust in His Word fully.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Sacramentalism

I don't think we can debate this under General Theology.

 

[Loren T.]

I don't think we can debate this under General Theology.

Seems to me that we've already been debating it for quite awhile now, lol.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Maybe you did or were with someone else. I didn't / won't as far as I am aware.

Seems to me that we've already been debating it for quite awhile now, lol.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Do you mean that old covenant is not in effect? Then if you failed to believe in Jesus will you be judged. If so judged by what?

Yes, O.T. Covenant stands to the end as Matthew clearly states...I object to your guessing judgement based on Old Covenant and I Corinthians 7 covers babes of believers as does Psalm 22.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

??
I didn't say anything of the sort.



Yes, I know what you said.
To be honest though I was responding more to your previous post, where someone suggested reading my post #84, and you responded by saying "there is a lot of human reasoning in that post". No, there was Scripture.

And, to be honest again, I think I was a bit hasty when I said "true". It IS for God to judge, not us - but you tell me what a 3 month old foetus or 10 minute old baby has done that they need to be judged on.



I've given Scripture to back my words and show my thinking; as far as I know, no one has yet responded to it.

God created all of us; babies and toddlers too, in his image. He is love, merciful, compassionate etc; why would he judge them as being evil sinners and send them to hell, because they hadn't lived long enough to meet God, learn they were sinners, repent and be saved?



I wasn't.
Psalm 138:2 says that the Lord has exalted above all things his name and his word. His name is highly exalted; higher than almost anything.
When God his Moses in the rock, passed before him and told him his name, Exodus 33:19, what did he say;
"The Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love", Exodus 34:6.
God's name is compassion, grace, love. Tell me, how it is compassionate to send babies to hell?

I stand by my assessment of your post...human reasoning while using Scripture to sort of stretch it beyond its intent.

 

[FineLinen]

I was having this discussion with a brother yesterday ! He asked me if I thought children went to heaven : So I gave him the verse that came to my mind and it was : Except a man be born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven : So I said to him that a baby obviously has not been born again because he is just too young! I askef him if there were any verses that specifically state that a baby has a spirit : we could not find any : or verses that say babies go to heaven ! Both of us don't believe that babies go to hell though we could not find a single verse that specifically states this so there it is : what saist thou ?

Good grief: where does this all end? 15000 children under the age of 5 die every day worldwide. I assume the "age of accountability" rule kicks in, or does it? I know a number of individuals who cannot even spell "repent" who are locked in minds that make children brilliant! Surely there is much escaping your grasp of Abba!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Does it all end anytime before Jesus returns ? (the wicked have no peace, ever, so for them no, it never ends)

The 'argument' or debate over if (worldly) babies will be saved or not
has been unending for centuries and remains insolvable because it is not detailed in Scripture one way or another for either 'side' .

Thus, it remains unsolved today, and will not be solved until Jesus returns.

 

[twin.spin]

None of those scriptures have to do with infant baptism. Romans 10: 9-10 If a child can believe in his heart and confess with his mouth that Jesus is Lord, by all means, baptism is appropriate. But he is saved through Christ alone. Not by any ritual. The danger is that many think that because they were baptized as infants, thier salvation is insured. No different than the Jews who trusted the law instead of Christ.

Baptism is not a mere "ritual" …

Baptism washes away sin: Acts 22:16

Baptism connects us to Christ's death: Romans 6:3

Baptism connects us to Christ's burial Romans 6:4

Baptism clothes ourselves with Christ: Galatians 3:27

Baptism saves by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 1 Peter 3:21

Baptism is "the washing with water through the word" that Jesus did to make the church holy Ephesians 5:25-27

"Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless."​

Baptism is the means by which disciples are made of all nations Matthew 28:19-20

 

[FineLinen]

Does it all end anytime before Jesus returns ? (the wicked have no peace, ever, so for them no, it never ends)

The 'argument' or debate over if (worldly) babies will be saved or not
has been unending for centuries and remains insolvable because it is not detailed in Scripture one way or another for either 'side' .

Thus, it remains unsolved today, and will not be solved until Jesus returns.

 

[FineLinen]

You do not need to wait! There is more than ample evidence from Canon that your viewpoint needs expansion by the powers of 10. And no, F.L. will not help you in your potential search!

 

[Strong in Him]

I stand by my assessment of your post...human reasoning while using Scripture to sort of stretch it beyond its intent.

It's only your assessment though; I don't agree.

You still haven't answered the Scripture that I posted.

 

[Loren T.]

Baptism is not a mere "ritual" …

Baptism washes away sin: Acts 22:16

Baptism connects us to Christ's death: Romans 6:3

Baptism connects us to Christ's burial Romans 6:4

Baptism clothes ourselves with Christ: Galatians 3:27

Baptism saves by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 1 Peter 3:21

Baptism is "the washing with water through the word" that Jesus did to make the church holy Ephesians 5:25-27

"Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless."​

Baptism is the means by which disciples are made of all nations Matthew 28:19-20

Taking a verse from Galatians to support sacramentalism is a sad irony, when Paul is so clear that no work saves us, the whole point of Galatians, reversed by one misunderstood verse...


There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism …” (Ephesians 4:4-5)
(The baptism of the holy spirit)

“I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” (Mark 1:8)

"Washed by water through the word" is clearly a reference to being purified through hearing the Word.
“For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all be made to drink into one Spirit” (1 Corinthians 12:12-13)
Not only is infant baptism works salvation, it's the works of a parent saving a child! Faith always is the key to salvation, not any work we or some other mere person does.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

It's only your assessment though; I don't agree.

You still haven't answered the Scripture that I posted.

I think I told you what I believe you are doing with Scripture. Here's a Scripture section which goes against your "theories"...
Romans 9:10-14:
Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!