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Featured Do Catholics Deny Imputation?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Tree of Life, Sep 18, 2018.

  1. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So you admit that there is a difference between a temptation and a temptation so engaged that it is a sin. Clarity is good.
     
  2. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life A Sinner

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    When Jesus was tempted he was tempted externally by the devil. When we are tempted we are tempted internally by sinful desires. Jesus was not tempted internally as we are.
     
  3. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think you have drifted a bit from that. I'm not the first to ask for a clarification of terms.
     
  4. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Respectfully I think that's blowing smoke.
     
  5. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You know what Newman said about learning your history?
     
  6. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Like the existence of God and the Trinity maybe?
     
  7. Afra

    Afra Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think more than that, but I am sure you have your opinion on that. I think some aspects of Reformed theology are very close to Thomist Predestination.
     
  8. Afra

    Afra Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is interesting. Do you hold that concupiscence is sin worthy of punishment?
     
  9. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, we can affirm about 3.5 of 5 in TULIP. Way better than the average Protestant.
     
  10. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No. Not at all. It is an EFFECT of original sin, common to us all, and not sin in itself. It's like a habit. The habit itself is not a sin but it leads you to sin. You sinned when you did what you did to start the habit. Still having the habit is not sinful. Not fighting the habit is sinful. Indulging the habit is sinful.

    Sorry. I didn't realize you were responding to someone else. Curious to see what the reply is there.
     
  11. Tutorman

    Tutorman Charismatic Episcopalian

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    Only in Calvinism not in all of Christianity
     
  12. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

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    Eusebius, Eusebius, mmm... is that the same Eusebius that got in trouble for embracing heresy?
     
  13. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well there are multiple Eusebii, but this particular one was the condemner of Athanasius, condemned himself rightly as an Arian, never made a saint for that reason, but a pretty good historian. Just because he pontificated on a matter of theology means zero.
     
  14. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Well said.
     
  15. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    No, we are not guilty of Adam's sin, we suffer the consequences of it. Only Adam is guilty of Adam's sin...
     
  16. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    No, your view is not the Orthodox view. believe me, I know ;-)
     
  17. gordonhooker

    gordonhooker Franciscan tssf Supporter

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    You do realise that when people use the word (o)rthodox they may not be necessarily referring the word (O)rthodox right? It is a bit like catholic and Catholic...

     
  18. Ripheus27

    Ripheus27 Holeless fox

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    I'm pretty sure the phrases in our scriptures that are translated using the word "imputed" were using the wording/concept metaphorically. Infused/imparted grace makes more sense and the epistles are highly abstract documents, by the by, so trying to interpret their talk of imputation as strictly concrete and literal (notions of "federal representation") is going to miss the mark.
     
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  19. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life A Sinner

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    The broad idea of imputation would be "crediting" or "reckoning". The word reckon comes from words meaning to count, to add up, or to conclude.

    When we talk about our sins counting against us or God counting our sins against us we are talking about imputation. If God credits us as being unrighteous or evaluates us as unrighteous because of our sins, then our sins are being imputed to us.

    The Bible talks about the man whose sins are not reckoned (or imputed) against him. Psalm 32:1-2 says: "Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man against whom the Lord counts no iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit." When God forgives sins, he does not impute our sins to us. In other words, our sins are not counted against us and are not reckoned to our account.

    The doctrine of imputed righteousness is that the perfect, spotless, righteous record of Christ is imputed to believers. His righteousness is reckoned to their account and they are treated by God as if they were perfectly righteous. Because of imputed righteousness, God has no wrath toward them and only desires to bless and reward them.

    Similarly, our sins are imputed to Christ and he suffers God's wrath for our sins. He, during his life but especially on the cross, was treated not as his righteousness deserved, but as our sins deserve. The guilt of our sins was imputed to Christ and he "bore our sins in his body on the tree."

    That's one attempt to explain the idea of imputation and how it relates to our relationship with Christ.
     
  20. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life A Sinner

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    If you say that Jesus was tempted by his own nature then you must say that he had a sinful nature. Since Jesus is God, this would be most heretical.
     
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