New phrase. Hadn't heard that one yet.Sounds like a purely intellectual, unemotional pursuit, and they call Calvinists, the "frozen chosen".
Did God's love lead you to repentance, or was this strictly a legal transaction?
Right. if you are hell bound why would you Love God?So in your theology, we accept forgiveness and then we love God.
So what comes first, God's forgiveness or our accepting of it?Right. if you are hell bound why would you Love God?
I was showing by Jeremiah 15:1-4, verse 1 in particular, that God's affection can be turned away from us because of our failures to please Him, which incidentally can be imparted to the sheep who follow the wicked course of the shepherds (as in this case where King Manasseh corrupted them by ruling them in wickedness).Those verses talk about God disciplining his people like you might send your child to his room for a much less significant offence.
I am pleased for you, brother, to hear this! Praise The Lord for His power to save!Taking Gal. 6:7 out of context might make you think it is cut and dry. I have sown after the flesh, but I have not reaped destruction, but loving discipline because of what I have sown after the flesh, since I quite doing that. Sowing after the flesh and needing forgiveness and disciplining and that has been done, but destruction (hell) is not going to happen for me.
Sounds like a purely intellectual, unemotional pursuit (and they call Calvinists, the "frozen chosen")
Did God's love lead you to repentance, or was this strictly a legal transaction?
No. Oh, sorry, you already answered it.The question is: do all men love God?
The obvious answer is: no.
Because people are naturally evil. Evil people don't love God.The next question is logically: why not?
Yes. That's why he sends most of them to Hell. It's the perfect way to show someone you love them.Another question, which is very related, is Does God love all men?
From there, if He does love all men, why don't all men love Him in return.
No.If God loves all people, as many say, do all people love Him?
God is doing His part perfectly just as the King in the parable of the ungrateful servant Matt. 18: 21-35.So what comes first, God's forgiveness or our accepting of it?
Good to talk with you.Hey brother! Nice to chat with you again, it's been quite some time! .. Glad to see you are doing well too
I was showing by Jeremiah 15:1-4, verse 1 in particular, that God's affection can be turned away from us because of our failures to please Him, which incidentally can be imparted to the sheep who follow the wicked course of the shepherds (as in this case where King Manasseh corrupted them by ruling them in wickedness).
I am pleased for you, brother, to hear this! Praise The Lord for His power to save!
I was holding another view of destruction when I wrote that, as a fruit of sowing into the flesh: the sort that is described in Lamentations 4:7-8 and mentioned in Romans 1:27.. as what Job 19:21 expresses. (Of course, Job suffered severe destruction and torment and he endured faithfully while justice was being prepared.. and God appointed that destruction to him for our sake: Matthew 5:10).
It shows that one who "is perishing" (eg 2 Peter 3:9) is being destroyed, and yet any form of destruction requires time for the process before it comes to completion and until there remains absolutely nothing of value.
Thanks for your help to clarify that, may The Lord continue to demonstrate the power of His salvation through Christ Jesus!
no of course not some straight up don't believe him and call him stupid for a philosophical question this is one sided man.
God's hate doesn't preclude God's love.And I have to wonder how much God really loves them.
There is a consensus that God loves everyone, but does the bible actually say that? Seems to me he was pretty angry with some at times, and there are those that seem to say God loved all people all the time no matter what their sin, and so on and so forth, but is that really true? It just sounds a little too "happy place/wishful thinking" to me.
But it may be he does, and for the moment I'll assume people have a reason for believing that, and maybe someone can show me where that's biblical?
Romans 9:13 - "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."
God loves the sinner but hates the sin? Is that in scripture? This is just one I ran across that more than suggests otherwise..
Hosea 9:15 - "All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters."
All that said, we are to love our brother and of course God loves all that truly love him. Also, I have my doubts God hates everyone who does not love him, but some? apparently so.
Actually, it is not by chance, but it is the meeting of three parties at the right time:What changes their minds? They're little balls of chaos that God has no control over. One day, that little arbitrary ball of chaos suddenly reverses course and chooses to love the very thing that he hated. There was no cause.
Is humbling yourself to the point of accepting pure charity, something done intellectually?
Those in Acts 2 that were brought to the realization they had done the very worst thing they could possible do, by murdering the Messiah, only had to accept: Acts 2:38 “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.” Was that an unemotional experience for them?
People who need charity will often do almost anything to avoid accepting pure charity, even to the point of saying they did not accept it, but were just given it, for no reason.
God's Love causes God to invite everyone, but I accepted for purely selfish reason (I needed to relieve the burden sin was creating).
Hold on a sec. You said he who has been forgiven much loves much. But then you seem to say that one has to accept this forgiveness first. If that's the case, then you are incorrect about those who are forgiven much love much.God is doing His part perfectly just as the King in the parable of the ungrateful servant Matt. 18: 21-35.
The servant in that story was not asking for unconditional forgiveness, but dishonestly asking for "more time". If the servant had just humbly accepted the King's unconditional gift the transaction would be completed and the servant would have had an unbelievable Love (since this was an unbelievable huge debt the King was wanting to forgive). The transaction of forgiveness did not take place because the servant did not humbly accept the forgiveness as pure charity (as it was offered).
God is wanting and willing to forgive all of us (forgiving is God's nature), but most will just not accept charity. God's does His part first in forgiving, but we have to accept forgiveness as pure charity or our forgiveness does not take place.
Those on Pentecost felt a death blow to their hearts.Still not convinced of much emotion there. After 35 years a Christian, the gospel message often still brings me to tears. It could have something to do with what Paul asked the Galatians. . .
No. Oh, sorry, you already answered it.
Because people are naturally evil. Evil people don't love God.
Yes. That's why he sends most of them to Hell. It's the perfect way to show someone you love them.
Because they're evil. You already asked that one. Evil people don't love God. People who don't love God don't want to love God. People who don't want to love God don't naturally choose to love God. What changes their minds? They're little balls of chaos that God has no control over. One day, that little arbitrary ball of chaos suddenly reverses course and chooses to love the very thing that he hated. There was no cause. The entire event was the only effect in the whole universe without a cause. They say that God was the first cause in the universe, the one that started the whole chain of cause and effect, but they're wrong. Billions of little gods, called humans, introduce causeless effects in the form of free will, which God has no power over. Some go his way. Most go another way, and God lovingly throws them into Hell. This is so simple.
You probably thought that God's "elect" referred to people that God elected, but it's really the people who elected God. It's like God's lottery. He hopes to get lucky and win our love.
Yes, I'm being facetious.
Why?Those on Pentecost felt a death blow to their hearts.
Those on Pentecost felt a death blow to their hearts.
Just because God does His part in forgiving all people does not mean forgiveness takes place, God is like the King in the parable of the ungrateful servant. Matt. 18:Hold on a sec. You said he who has been forgiven much loves much. But then you seem to say that one has to accept this forgiveness first. If that's the case, then you are incorrect about those who are forgiven much love much.
Those in Acts 2 were brought to the realization they had done the very worst thing they could possible do, by murdering the Messiah,Why?
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