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Featured Do All People Love God?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by jimmyjimmy, Jul 7, 2017.

  1. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    New phrase. Hadn't heard that one yet.

    Are you a Calvinist?
     
  2. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Right. if you are hell bound why would you Love God?
     
  3. Hammster

    Hammster Kill the dragon. Save the girl. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    So what comes first, God's forgiveness or our accepting of it?
     
  4. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    Hey brother! Nice to chat with you again, it's been quite some time! .. Glad to see you are doing well too :wave:
    I was showing by Jeremiah 15:1-4, verse 1 in particular, that God's affection can be turned away from us because of our failures to please Him, which incidentally can be imparted to the sheep who follow the wicked course of the shepherds (as in this case where King Manasseh corrupted them by ruling them in wickedness).
    I am pleased for you, brother, to hear this! Praise The Lord for His power to save!

    I was holding another view of destruction when I wrote that, as a fruit of sowing into the flesh: the sort that is described in Lamentations 4:7-8 and mentioned in Romans 1:27.. as what Job 19:21 expresses. (Of course, Job suffered severe destruction and torment and he endured faithfully while justice was being prepared.. and God appointed that destruction to him for our sake: Matthew 5:10).

    It shows that one who "is perishing" (eg 2 Peter 3:9) is being destroyed, and yet any form of destruction requires time for the process before it comes to completion and until there remains absolutely nothing of value.

    Thanks for your help to clarify that, may The Lord continue to demonstrate the power of His salvation through Christ Jesus!
     
  5. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Is humbling yourself to the point of accepting pure charity, something done intellectually?

    Those in Acts 2 that were brought to the realization they had done the very worst thing they could possible do, by murdering the Messiah, only had to accept: Acts 2:38 “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.” Was that an unemotional experience for them?

    People who need charity will often do almost anything to avoid accepting pure charity, even to the point of saying they did not accept it, but were just given it, for no reason.

    God's Love causes God to invite everyone, but I accepted for purely selfish reason (I needed to relieve the burden sin was creating).
     
  6. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Nonexistent Member

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    No. Oh, sorry, you already answered it.

    Because people are naturally evil. Evil people don't love God.

    Yes. That's why he sends most of them to Hell. It's the perfect way to show someone you love them.

    Because they're evil. You already asked that one. Evil people don't love God. People who don't love God don't want to love God. People who don't want to love God don't naturally choose to love God. What changes their minds? They're little balls of chaos that God has no control over. One day, that little arbitrary ball of chaos suddenly reverses course and chooses to love the very thing that he hated. There was no cause. The entire event was the only effect in the whole universe without a cause. They say that God was the first cause in the universe, the one that started the whole chain of cause and effect, but they're wrong. Billions of little gods, called humans, introduce causeless effects in the form of free will, which God has no power over. Some go his way. Most go another way, and God lovingly throws them into Hell. This is so simple.

    You probably thought that God's "elect" referred to people that God elected, but it's really the people who elected God. It's like God's lottery. He hopes to get lucky and win our love.

    Yes, I'm being facetious.
     
  7. Waggles

    Waggles Acts 2:38 Supporter

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    No.
     
  8. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    God is doing His part perfectly just as the King in the parable of the ungrateful servant Matt. 18: 21-35.
    The servant in that story was not asking for unconditional forgiveness, but dishonestly asking for "more time". If the servant had just humbly accepted the King's unconditional gift the transaction would be completed and the servant would have had an unbelievable Love (since this was an unbelievable huge debt the King was wanting to forgive). The transaction of forgiveness did not take place because the servant did not humbly accept the forgiveness as pure charity (as it was offered).

    God is wanting and willing to forgive all of us (forgiving is God's nature), but most will just not accept charity. God's does His part first in forgiving, but we have to accept forgiveness as pure charity or our forgiveness does not take place.
     
  9. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Good to talk with you.
     
  10. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And I have to wonder how much God really loves them.

    There is a consensus that God loves everyone, but does the bible actually say that? Seems to me he was pretty angry with some at times, and there are those that seem to say God loved all people all the time no matter what their sin, and so on and so forth, but is that really true? It just sounds a little too "happy place/wishful thinking" to me.

    But it may be he does, and for the moment I'll assume people have a reason for believing that, and maybe someone can show me where that's biblical?

    Romans 9:13 - "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

    God loves the sinner but hates the sin? Is that in scripture? This is just one I ran across that more than suggests otherwise..

    Hosea 9:15 - "All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters."

    All that said, we are to love our brother and of course God loves all that truly love him. Also, I have my doubts God hates everyone who does not love him, but some? apparently so.
     
  11. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

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    God's hate doesn't preclude God's love.
    Merciful Truth : Does God Hate You, Sinner?

    Show where God loves everyone is Biblical? I have, numerous times.

    John 3:16 - God loves "the world". No one has yet substantiated any claim that "the world" excludes some people.

    1 John 4:8 & 16 - twice John says, "God is love." If God *IS* love, then by definition He loves everyone.
     
  12. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    Actually, it is not by chance, but it is the meeting of three parties at the right time:

    One human to faithfully speak the words that God may speak through. One human who is ready to hear the message that God speaks through those words, and of course, God Himself needs to be willing to be present in that moment.

    Here is some scriptures to ponder to that effect: John 15:3-4, Matthew 7:3-5, 1 Thessalonians 2:3-4, 2 Corinthians 4:1-4, John 14:15-17, John 13:34-35, Matthew 13:24-25, 2 Peter 2:1-2, Mark 8:38, Matthew 10:26, John 10:1-5, John 10:27, Hebrews 3:15.

    Not many people really do follow Him, instead the majority take up a rote belief of crafted head-knowledge concepts, that constructs a delusion of salvation without ever coming to know Him personally (Matthew 7:22-23, Isaiah 28:14-20).

    Therefore, work hard to enter by the narrow door, for surely the one who tries to climb in some other way is a thief and a robber.

    “You dwell in the midst of deceit. In deceit they refuse to know Me.” It is a declaration of Adonai.
    - Jeremiah 9:5
     
  13. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

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    Still not convinced of much emotion there. After 35 years a Christian, the gospel message often still brings me to tears. It could have something to do with what Paul asked the Galatians. . .
     
  14. Hammster

    Hammster Kill the dragon. Save the girl. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Hold on a sec. You said he who has been forgiven much loves much. But then you seem to say that one has to accept this forgiveness first. If that's the case, then you are incorrect about those who are forgiven much love much.
     
  15. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Those on Pentecost felt a death blow to their hearts.
     
  16. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

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    These people, like me, were going along, enemies of God. Unable to please God in their state (see Romans 8:8) yet, out of the blue, just decided to follow Christ, but nothing caused this. That is essentially what many in this thread have stated. Or, they take credit for being the cause.
     
  17. Hammster

    Hammster Kill the dragon. Save the girl. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Why?
     
  18. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

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    Yes. Those new hearts of flesh. . .
     
  19. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Just because God does His part in forgiving all people does not mean forgiveness takes place, God is like the King in the parable of the ungrateful servant. Matt. 18:

    The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant
    23 “Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold[h] was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
    26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
    28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.
    29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’
    30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.
    32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
    35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
     
  20. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Those in Acts 2 were brought to the realization they had done the very worst thing they could possible do, by murdering the Messiah,
     
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