Do all of the Orthodox Churches Agree?

[Cary.Melvin]

Do all of the various Orthodox Churches agree on the Christian dogmas of faith? Without a central command (like the Pope) how do the various churches resolve conflicts?

Do the various Patriarchs meet somewhere to discuss these things (like a council)? And are Bishops bound by the orders of thier Patriarch?

Thanks,

 

[Moros]

We've got the first 7 ecumenical councils.

 

[MattMMMan17]

I'm curious to know this as well.

 

[ChoirDir]

Do all of the various Orthodox Churches agree on the Christian dogmas of faith? Without a central command (like the Pope) how do the various churches resolve conflicts?

Depends on your meaning of dogma. The difference between Christian churches in particular the Roman and Eastern churches are quite different.

 

[prodromos]

Without a central command (like the Pope) how do the various churches resolve conflicts?

What conflicts?

 

[Montalban]

Do all of the various Orthodox Churches agree on the Christian dogmas of faith? Without a central command (like the Pope) how do the various churches resolve conflicts?

Do the various Patriarchs meet somewhere to discuss these things (like a council)? And are Bishops bound by the orders of thier Patriarch?

Thanks,

There are differences between the churches, but not in dogma. We are all in communion with each other.

Some issues, such as purgatory, you'll find some Orthodox agree, but most don't. This is not yet a dogmatic issue, so my previous statement re: 'not in dogma' stands.

We are united in faith, rather than politics.

There is some disunity in Roman Catholicsm, even with a Pope.

For instance, a celibate celibrant is deemed essential, by the Vatican, yet they make massive exceptions. Uniat Churches* have married clergy. Anglican priests, who have defected to Catholicism, are allowed to retain fully married lives.

*The Uniat Churches are Churches chipped off the Orthodox bock, for reasons of politics; they acknowledge the Pope as boss. Rome sweetened the deal by allowing to retain all their liturgies, married clery etc... further showing you the 'unity' of Catholicism.

Even the filioque, which Rome swears by, they toss away when the Pope visits a Uniat Church... where he'll say the Nicene Creed in the original format.

The Liturgy, the centre of Christian worship - go to a Roman church and you can have rock music, or latin chorals. Altar boys only, or with altar girls. The Eucharist will be given in either body only format to the laity, or body and blood.

These are far more important issues of unity than political unity, which is all Rome cares about.

 

[brewmama]

To be fair, there are many "schismatic" Orthodox Churches that are not in communion with each other, and even in America a church in California was excommunicated over their practices. I think the Armenian and Coptic Churches, and one of the Russian churches are not in communion with the major group of canonical churches, right? Meanwhile some fringe Greek groups have split off, and there is tension between the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Greek Church, and between both of them and the Palestinian Christians. What happens usually is that the offended group breaks off, and continues to do their own thing, and are regarded as schismatic by everyone else.

 

[Reader Nilus]

Schismatic Orthodox are not Orthodox. The Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox are very close to coming into communion, all that is needed is a major council to do it, already unofficially there is inter communion between the two. ROCOR and the MP are close to healing their split, which had more to do with Soviet revolution than dogma.
Jeff the Finn

 

[MariaRegina]

A lot of the so-called splits within Orthodoxy were caused by the Islamic invasion into Orthodox lands. This disrupted communication - now we have to sit down and discuss our faith, and we are discovering that we have the same faith even after years of separation and distrust fostered by the Muslims who wanted to keep the Orthodox Churches divided, so that the Orthodox Christians could not overthrow the Islamic Ottoman Empire.

A young man recently did his Master's thesis on the theory that Orthodoxy owes gratitude to Islam, oherwise there would be no schism today between the Patriarch of Rome and the other Patriarchates. Is this true? He thinks so and was able to defend his thesis.

Catholics question why Orthodoxy is not so prevalent in the world. It's because we have suffered so much at the hands of muslims and communists who have martyred hundreds of millions of Orthodox Christians since 600 AD. I think all totalled, the Orthodox Church has more martyrs than the Catholic Church.



Let us love one another in Christ instead of arguing. Divided we fall and now we face the threat of Islam and seem oblivious to it while we engage in petty arguments with fellow Christians.

This should be our theme:

Rise up fellow Christians - bear the Cross of Christ proudly.
Keep Christ ever in your minds and his name on your prayerful lips.

 

[MattMMMan17]

You know Elizabeth, from 600 A.D. - 1054 we were truly one Church. So everyone martyred for the Church during those times are considered martyred for the Catholic Church as well, since we were once one.

 

[ChoirDir]

It should be noted that the Coptic Church and the Ethiopian Church broke before the Great Schism. They split from the 5 churches over the Council of Chalcedon 451 which stated:

Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the God-bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.

 

[Montalban]

You know Elizabeth, from 600 A.D. - 1054 we were truly one Church. So everyone martyred for the Church during those times are considered martyred for the Catholic Church as well, since we were once one.

I don't mean to quibble, but why do you pick 600A.D., surely you mean from Pentecost when the Church (common to us both) was founded.

 

[MariaRegina]

Also, we Orthodox celebrate St. Photius as a saint (and he died two centuries before the Great Schism of 1054). The Catholics do not honor him as a saint. It was during the time of St. Photius that the Orthodox Hierarchs stopped commemorating the Pope of Rome during the Divine Liturgy (Mass).

 

[ChoirDir]

Photius was the source of a minor schism between Rome and Constantinople

From 861-886 the first open clash took place between the Eastern and Western Churches. In Constantinople there were two political parties struggling for power.

To settle a dispute between these two parties and to provide a church leader which both groups could respect and would accept, a layman named Photius was elevated to the partriarchal office. Although Photius was the one candidate upon whom both parties could agree, the extremists of the so- called conservative party were not satisfied. They appealed to Rome, using the good name of the former patriarch Ignatius - who had peaceably retired for the good of the Church - against Photius and the imperial government which confirmed his election. Pope Nicholas seized the opportunity of this extremist appeal to interfere in the affairs of the Constantinopolitan Church, calling a council in that city in 861 to settle the dispute. When the papal legates came to the council they saw that Photius was the rightful patriarch, and all was happily settled. However, when the legates returned to Rome, Pope Nicholas rejected their decision, and held another council, this time in Rome in 863, at which he proclaimed Ignatius as the bishop of Constantinople, thus deposing Photius. His actions were ignored.

In 866 and 867 the Bulgarian Church was fluctuating between Constantinople and Rome. In 867 Photius and a council of five hundred bishops in Constantinople condemned Pope Nicholas for interfering in the affairs of the Bulgarian Church. In this same year there was another internal political conflict in Constantinople. When Basil I became emperor, Photius resigned as bishop for the sake of unity. For political reasons Ignatius was reinstated. In 869 Pope Hadrian II, the successor of Nicholas, excommunicated Photius again for his role in the Bulgarian affair. In 877 Photius, who was not in disfavor with the new emperor, again became patriarch when the venerable Ignatius died.

In 879 a huge council took place in Constantinople, once again with papal legates in attendance. At this council, presided over by Photius, the traditional privileges of the Pope of Rome in the East were clarified by Photius and accepted by John VIII who was the new pope. The councils of 863 and 869 which condemned Photius were declared null and void. The council of 787 was accepted as the seventh ecumenical council. The creed was affirmed without the filioque.

Photius was officially canonized a saint by the Orthodox Church in the tenth century. He was a man of many talents. He was a great theologian who wrote extensively, particularly on the question of the filioque by defending the procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father alone. He was a compiler of classical and patristic writings. He sponsored the mission to the Slavs. He defended the authentic Church Tradition in confrontation with the Roman claims invented by Nicholas, while ultimately preserving unity with the Roman Church and Pope John VIII. He was an excellent diplomat in political affairs, with personal humility and wisdom which earned him the respect of good-willed persons of all parties in East and West. Saint Photius was one of the truly great bishops in Christian Church history.

 

[MattMMMan17]

I don't mean to quibble, but why do you pick 600A.D., surely you mean from Pentecost when the Church (common to us both) was founded.

I used 600 AD in response to the following claim made by Elizabeth. . .

Catholics question why Orthodoxy is not so prevalent in the world. It's because we have suffered so much at the hands of muslims and communists who have martyred hundreds of millions of Orthodox Christians since 600 AD. I think all totalled, the Orthodox Church has more martyrs than the Catholic Church.

emphasis mine

 

[Oblio]

600 AD speaks to the start of persecution by muslims, not the start of the Church.

 

[MattMMMan17]

600 AD speaks to the start of persecution by muslims, not the start of the Church.

I think you misinterpret what I meant. The Church was the same Church since Pentecost up until Schism. That is common knowledge. This Means that from 600 AD UP UNTIL schism, those martyrs were martyred for the ONE Church, not the "Orthodox" Church (as it's known today) alone.

 

[Photini]

I think you misinterpret what I meant. The Church was the same Church since Pentecost up until Schism. That is common knowledge. This Means that from 600 AD UP UNTIL schism, those martyrs were martyred for the ONE Church, not the "Orthodox" Church (as it's known today) alone.

The ONE Church never ceased existing just because branches fell off from it. The Faith has been preserved throughout the ages untainted within the Holy Orthodox Church, which is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. The ONE Church is not broken, but remains now as it was then and will forever.

 

[MattMMMan17]

The ONE Church never ceased existing just because branches fell off from it. The Faith has been preserved throughout the ages untainted within the Holy Orthodox Church, which is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. The ONE Church is not broken, but remains now as it was then and will forever.

I don't know why none of you are understanding what I'm saying, but I will attempt to reword it one last time. Photini, you are focusing on semantics, regardless, the point is that the martyrs to which Chanter was referring to were martyred for the one Church UNDER ONE FAITH, thereby leaving them as martyrs for both Orthodox Church and Catholic Church under the Roman See. Which makes the idea that the Orthodox Faith has had more martyrs for your faith(on THAT basis) a ridiculous claim.

 

[Oblio]

IMO, I think that just like Saints prior to the schism, martyrs also are not exclusive to either the EO or the RC but are common to both of our faiths as there was no division between us. (yes, I realize the seeds of divsion were sprouting before that fateful day in 1054)