Do aborted babies go to heaven?

[DogmaHunter]

Jesus taught that we must do on Earth as in Heaven. We need hope. The hope to become the right and kind character that composes Heaven and life and eternal life comes by such blessings as living water, God's Spirit we take in. For from the heart comes life. No faith and you doubt there is any living water. Knowledge and laws are not enough. If you do not get on the path to life in this life, unlike a baby, after sinning, then you may never gain life in your heart and a place in Heaven. Jesus gave us the cross, a way to life, in his living water and sacred blood. And it is written, he gives us this, how much all other things? So God holds out an offer, we need to take it now in case we die tomorrow, or in death, we don't know what could happen, for better or worse.

I hope you don't think that you clarified anything.
Again, I don't understand a word of this.

Your language seems designed to make it so abstract to the point that it becomes meaningless.

 

[Dave-W]

Jesus taught that we must do on Earth as in Heaven.

Wrong. He taught us to PRAY that the Father's will be done on earth as in heaven. That is different.

As to the rest of your post, it seems based on the fallacy that we are saved as babes but when we sin we lose that.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I hope you don't think that you clarified anything.
Again, I don't understand a word of this.

Your language seems designed to make it so abstract to the point that it becomes meaningless.

I suppose since you are an atheist, you do not understand the idea God has presence and power that saves instead of a dogma, or church law and faith law, and knowledge. Sorry about that.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Wrong. He taught us to PRAY that the Father's will be done on earth as in heaven. That is different.

As to the rest of your post, it seems based on the fallacy that we are saved as babes but when we sin we lose that.

If we pray the Father's will be done on Earth as in Heaven, we are to do things on Earth as in Heaven. Moses seeing into Heaven created the Temple and gave the law. Jesus gave us more, in grace and truth, the example of compassion and love and the enaction on Earth of it in healing... If we don't at least get on the path now before we die and have kind character, we can't turn up in Heaven and do good and be one of them.

Babies sometimes die as they did in the sixth century, and in the old Roman Catholic church they invented the idea of limbo for the unsaved babies. But for sure, they do not go to Hell, which have no iniquity no sin. Simple innocence and they return to Heaven. No rewards, maybe at first confused, but warmed. As in all the child NDE accounts. Jesus came to save the lost. He will not condemn a babe.

 

[nightflight]

Because of the 6th commandment: "Do not murder".

We could forgive the man who steals a loaf of bread to feed his family. Why not the woman who gets an abortion to ensure her unborn child goes to heaven?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

We could forgive the man who steals a loaf of bread to feed his family. Why not the woman who gets an abortion to ensure her unborn child goes to heaven?

Why forgive? Make them pay back.
A woman killing her child is playing God. Love the child and teach him or her to earn rewards, and gain from life, even to glorify God by getting healed.
We have a will to live, and empathy, and no authority and vast knowledge to condescend. We have no right to kill. Unless we are government soldiers.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I suppose since you are an atheist, you do not understand the idea God has presence and power that saves instead of a dogma, or church law and faith law, and knowledge. Sorry about that.

Indeed, I do not understand the abstract gibberish you posted in "response" to my question.

I note that you don't even bother to try and explain it.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Is abortion a form of secular heaven? Is there a yellow brick road. Is the wizard of oz an abortionist "Back to Kansas, Dorothy". That makes my gut wrench.



Fritz on personality switching (below, form here):


Switching--This is when one part (fragment) of the mind takes over from another, or in simple terms, this is when one alter personality (or alter fragment) takes the body from the alter which is holding the body. Switching can occur via the Programmers’ codes for calling up alters, or by external or internal stimuli that trigger an alter to come out. Switching will usually cause at least a flicker of the eyes, and for outside observers, who know the different personalities, they will observe another personality take the body."

Now, oooh they wont like that.

What is the secular angle on the "Wizard of OZ"?



From Wikipedia:

Collective conscious or collective conscience (French: conscience collective) is the set of shared beliefs, ideas and moral attitudes which operate as a unifying force within society.[1] The term was introduced by the French sociologist Émile Durkheim in his Division of Labour in Society in 1893.

 

[Dave-W]

Babies sometimes die as they did in the sixth century, and in the old Roman Catholic church they invented the idea of limbo for the unsaved babies.

Actually, limbo was invented for unbaptized babies; which was a reflection of the idea that baptism was in itself salvic. It is not.

But for sure, they do not go to Hell, which have no iniquity no sin. Simple innocence and they return to Heaven.

That is entirely conjecture based on nothing but human wisdom; which counts for NOTHING before God.

Salvation has ALWAYS been on the basis of a covenant relationship. The New Covenant is an "opt-in" agreement, and babies do not yet have the capacity to understand and agree to the terms.

So there is NOTHING in scripture that guarantees their "salvation."

As in all the child NDE accounts. Jesus came to save the lost. He will not condemn a babe.

If you will look closely, EVERY INSTANCE where it talks about children, whether David talking about his dead son or Jesus talking about the children that surrounded Him, They were ALL Jewish children born into the Mosaic covenant. That situation in no way resembles gentile babies born today.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Actually, limbo was invented for unbaptized babies; which was a reflection of the idea that baptism was in itself salvic. It is not.

That is entirely conjecture based on nothing but human wisdom; which counts for NOTHING before God.

Salvation has ALWAYS been on the basis of a covenant relationship. The New Covenant is an "opt-in" agreement, and babies do not yet have the capacity to understand and agree to the terms.

So there is NOTHING in scripture that guarantees their "salvation."


If you will look closely, EVERY INSTANCE where it talks about children, whether David talking about his dead son or Jesus talking about the children that surrounded Him, They were ALL Jewish children born into the Mosaic covenant. That situation in no way resembles gentile babies born today.

We have an obligation to discern, otherwise we may be blaspheming God's goodness.
A child that dies is in God's hands and has free will but also has light, love and guardian angels... it dishonours God to suggest innocent infants he loves will be taken to Hell and grow up there. The Gospel accounts has the part in it in which Jesus wants children to be brought to him even when he is tired, to bless them. After his death and resurrection, he sent his disciples to the gentiles as well as Jews and the promise to the Samaritan woman of drinking living water could begin to be realized.

 

[Dave-W]

A child that dies is in God's hands and has free will but also has light, love and guardian angels..

That may be true, but it is ENTIRELY unsupported in scripture.

it dishonours God to suggest innocent infants he loves will be taken to Hell and grow up there.

You misread me. I did not say they went to hell; I said there is no guarantee IN SCRIPTURE one way or the other.
And where in scripture does it say anything about "growing up" in eternity? That is a function of our time/space world. There are numerous "hints" in scripture that neither heaven or hell experience time as we know it.

After his death and resurrection, he sent his disciples to the gentiles as well as Jews

Quite right. With a NEW COVENANT. It is NOT like either the Mosaic or Abrahamic covenants in that it is NOT entered by physical birth. (among other differences)

============================================================

It occurs to me that part of the problem with you understanding what I write is that perhaps you are offended by ambiguity. You think every detail of every doctrine has to be right and true and supported in scripture. But that is not true. Paul says in 1 Cor 13 that "we see in a glass darkly." That means that many things are not clear, even to someone like Paul.

And that is OK.

It is OK because we are not God. We are not in control. And that scares some of us. We like to have our hands on the steering wheel and our foot on the gas pedal. We have our GPS telling us to turn left at the next intersection.

But guess what? GOD is driving and we do not need to know His route to get us to where He wants to take us.

So take your hands off the wheel already; and switch off the GPS. Trust Him. He knows where He is going.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

In scripture oral sex and anal sex and mutual masturbation.. is not written about either. But the churches teach, in so far as I know, not to do these things.

 

[Dave-W]

In scripture oral sex and anal sex and mutual masturbation.. is not written about either.

Have you read the Song of Solomon in the original Hebrew? Oral (both ways) and masturbation are in there.

As for anal - most commentators for the last 2100-2200 years consider that to be "sodomy" which is forbidden. (that is not a typo; Jewish sages of the first and 2nd centuries bc considered it that)

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Hell is just, God does not intend to be cruel, it is practical for the determined and unrelenting evil element of the universe, as Howard Storm says, the sewer of the universe, where beings feed off the pain of others.

WHy would the universe have any evil component to it? Where would that evil have come from if everything that exists is credited to an infinitely benevolent being?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

We have no right to kill. Unless we are government soldiers.

Why is there an exception for soldiers?

 

[Mitchilita]

Why is there an exception for soldiers?

Just think why David killed Goliath.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

WHy would the universe have any evil component to it? Where would that evil have come from if everything that exists is credited to an infinitely benevolent being?

Because of free will, and the fallen angels work.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Why is there an exception for soldiers?

The government is set in place by God, not theocracy, and look at GB in WW2, they had to resist Nazism.

 

[sunsurfkdt]

Of course!

 

[sunsurfkdt]

It wasn't their fault! They didn't do a single thing wrong!