DNA: Mutations, Versatility and Probability

[coffee4u]

Mutations mean change. That's all. If a mutation means only damage, what happens when a subsequent mutation restores the original DNA?

Well, the reality is that they can and do.

You can believe whatever you want to believe. I already know that you and I have nothing in common over this topic. I am simply here to make sure that God's word is seen on this board by people lurking and questioning. I am not here to change your mind which is set in concrete, okay? Nor do I wish to argue with men.

 

[sfs]

You can believe whatever you want to believe.

I don't believe what I want to believe: I believe what I have evidence to be true.

I already know that you and I have nothing in common over this topic. I am simply here to make sure that God's word is seen on this board by people lurking and questioning.

Posting falsehoods about genetics does not help people lurking and questioning, nor does it do anything to promote God's word.

 

[Job 33:6]

As Ken Miller once said, one side argues from authentic evidence (theistic evolution), and for the other side, no amount of evidence is ever good enough for them (YECism).

 

[coffee4u]

I don't believe what I want to believe: I believe what I have evidence to be true.

Posting falsehoods about genetics does not help people lurking and questioning, nor does it do anything to promote God's word.

The only 'evidence' you have is of the fallen world, no one has access to the world as God created it.

I am not posting any falsehoods about genetics, God gave us his word and what we know comes from that. He created kinds and all animals came from them.

Genesis 1:21
21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:24-2624 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

 

[Buzzard3]

The only 'evidence' you have is of the fallen world, no one has access to the world as God created it.

I am not posting any falsehoods about genetics, God gave us his word and what we know comes from that. He created kinds and all animals came from them.

Genesis 1:21
21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:24-2624 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

Science - including the fossil record - helps us understand that Genesis is not meant to be read literally. Genesis is simply saying God was responsible for creating the universe and life on earth ... trying to squeeze scientific facts out of the text is a mistake.

 

[Buzzard3]

The only 'evidence' you have is of the fallen world, no one has access to the world as God created it.

I am not posting any falsehoods about genetics, God gave us his word and what we know comes from that. He created kinds and all animals came from them.

Genesis 1:21
21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:24-2624 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

In light of the fossil record, the "kinds" are not what God initially created, but what the writer of Genesis saw existing in his time - in other words, the creatures we see NOW.

 

[coffee4u]

Science - including the fossil record - helps us understand that Genesis is not meant to be read literally. Genesis is simply saying God was responsible for creating the universe and life on earth ... trying to squeeze scientific facts out of the text is a mistake.

Science is mankind's attempt at understanding what he sees, the past cannot and never be seen because it is gone, wiped away. All science can see is the fallen world.
The text doesn't need science it is God telling us the truth directly.

 

[coffee4u]

In light of the fossil record, the "kinds" are not what God initially created, but what the writer of Genesis saw existing in his time - in other words, the creatures we see NOW.

The creatures existing at creation were all herbivores, nothing like what we see now.
The fossil record shows but a few creatures that were mostly buried and died during the flood.

 

[Buzzard3]

Science is mankind's attempt at understanding what he sees, the past cannot and never be seen because it is gone, wiped away. All science can see is the fallen world.
The text doesn't need science it is God telling us the truth directly.

It's impossible for science to ever know exactly what happened before Adam and the Bible doesn't attempt to tell us bcoz it's irrelevant. Instead, the Bible presents the pre-Adamic past as a story that is theologically correct, but not scientifically correct. The theology is all God needs us to know.

 

[Buzzard3]

The creatures existing at creation were all herbivores, nothing like what we see now.

Evolution?

The fossil record shows but a few creatures that were mostly buried and died during the flood.

If the fossi record were the result of the flood, we would find no pattern at all ... it would be a chaotic mishmass of all creatures ... for example, the remains of humans and dogs and cattle would be found amongst the remains of dinosaurs ... but we NEVER find that .

Instead, what we find is a distinct pattern that is the same everywhere on the planet ... the deepest layers contain only very simple forms of life, followed in shallower layers by more complex forms of until we get to the Cambrian explosion. After that there are further changes in life-forms. (It seems to me that the changes are not consistent with Dawinian theory, but the fossil record nevertheless reveals a pattern of change over time, which could be described as "evolution".)

 

[coffee4u]

It's impossible for science to ever know exactly what happened before Adam and the Bible doesn't attempt to tell us bcoz it's irrelevant. Instead, the Bible presents the pre-Adamic past as a story that is theologically correct, but not scientifically correct. The theology is all God needs us to know.

No its very relevant to science. The age of things are based on the assumption that what can be measured now, has always measured the same way. The world at creation may have been nothing like it is now.

The fossils don't show that at all. Did you watch that video? Did you even check out what the other side has to say?

 

[Buzzard3]

No its very relevant to science.

I said pre-Adamic history is irrelevant to the Bible, not to science. The Bible is about God, not science.

 

[coffee4u]

I said pre-Adamic history is irrelevant to the Bible, not to science. The Bible is about God, not science.

There is no Pre-Adamic history. God created over 6 days.

Exodus 20
20 And God spoke all these words:
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.
The heavens and the earth are all included within the 6 days.

 

[Buzzard3]

There is no Pre-Adamic history. God created over 6 days.

Exodus 20
20 And God spoke all these words:
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.
The heavens and the earth are all included within the 6 days.

You can interpret the text that way if you want to. I accept it as theological truth. I don't care if the world is young or old.

 

[Buzzard3]

Exodus 20
20 And God spoke all these words:
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.
The heavens and the earth are all included within the 6 days.

Incorrect. Nowhere does the Bible say the universe and the earth were created within the "six days" of creation.

The "heavens and the earth, the sea" in Exodus 20:11 refer to what happened on planet earth AFTER planet earth was created.
Here's the first clue - why does Exodus 20:11 say "the earth, the sea" when the planet earth contains the sea?
The answer is, the "heavens" in Exodus 20:11 refers to the earth's atmosphere - called "heaven" in Gen 1:8.
The "earth" in Exodus 20:11 refers to the dry land that God formed, which is called "earth" in Gen 1:10.

In Genesis 1, planet earth was already in existence when the "six days" began.

 

[sfs]

The only 'evidence' you have is of the fallen world, no one has access to the world as God created it.

Irrelevant. The evidence is overwhelming that in this fallen world, evolution happens and that all life has descended from a common ancestor.

I am not posting any falsehoods about genetics

How would you know, since you don't know any genetics?

 

[Buzzard3]

The only 'evidence' you have is of the fallen world, no one has access to the world as God created it.

Even if all evidence and claims of evolution are ignored, the fossil record - at the very least - demonstrates that animals were living and dying on earth a very very long time before Adam lived and before Original Sin, which disproves your interpretation of Scripture.

I'm sure you can develop an exegesis that is more in line with reality. There's nothing to fear. You don't have to accept Darwinian evolution - you can simply accept that different life-forms appeared at different stages of creation history ... after all, that's what Genesis 1 describes.

It would also help if you accept what Romans 8:18-23 suggests ... that God, in his infinite wisdom, created an imperfect world, in order to bring it to perfection in the fullness of time (ie, at the Second Coming). The immortality that God will one day grant to us humans may well extend to the immortality of all other intelligent creatures.

 

[coffee4u]

Incorrect. Nowhere does the Bible say the universe and the earth were created within the "six days" of creation.

The "heavens and the earth, the sea" in Exodus 20:11 refer to what happened on planet earth AFTER planet earth was created.

"refer to what happened on planet earth AFTER planet earth was created."
It doesn't say that. If you want to claim that then you need some scriptural backup saying such and such happened after.

I will wait.

 

[Buzzard3]

"refer to what happened on planet earth AFTER planet earth was created."
It doesn't say that. If you want to claim that then you need some scriptural backup saying such and such happened after.

I will wait.

In Genesis 1, God's creative actions during the "six days" are heralded by the words, "Then God said ...", which are repeated nine times (the first appears in verse 3). In none of these nine creative actions does God say, "Let there be a planet called earth" - on the contrary, the only place the planet earth is declared created is in verse 1 - BEFORE the first of the nine "And God said ..." - ie, before the "six days".

Therefore it can be safely assumed that the (planet) earth existed before the "six days" of creation began.

 

[coffee4u]

In Genesis 1, God's creative actions during the "six days" are heralded by the words, "Then God said ...", which are repeated nine times (the first appears in verse 3). In none of these nine creative actions does God say, "Let there be a planet called earth" - on the contrary, the only place the planet earth is declared created is in verse 1 - BEFORE the first of the nine "And God said ..." - ie, before the "six days".

Therefore it can be safely assumed that the (planet) earth existed before the "six days" of creation began.

And Exodus clearly says that the creation of the planet was included within those 6 days. Nowhere in scripture is there any indication of some kind of pre-Adimite world. It simply isn't there, meaning its made up because you want it to be there.
If this was as clear as you say it is then this would be the traditional held belief- it is not.
As I am sure you know there are many many sermons against the gap theory. Main reason being, there is simply no scripture to back it up.

https://digitalcommons.cedarville.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1271&context=icc_proceedings

Why the Gap Theory Won't Work

Gap Theory

The Gaping Holes in the Gap Theory

On and on and on.