Divorce is wrong

[rusmeister]

THIS IS A POST IN TAW FOR TAW MEMBERS (which includes honorary members).
I don’t want to forbid all other posts, but I have no interest in a CF-wide discussion between people who do not agree on what Christian authority to teach us is. PLEASE BEAR IN MIND THAT THIS IS THE ORTHODOX CONGREGATIONAL FORUM AND RESPECT THAT NON-ORTHODOX MAY NOT TEACH HERE.

Divorce between practicing Orthodox Christians who both declare repentance and a determination to follow Christ is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Orthodox people should stop doing it and stop justifying it. I’m not talking about non-Orthodox, I’m not talking about non-Christians, I’m not talking about unrepentant apostate adulterers. I’m talking about Mark ch 10, especially verse 9.

And one of the biggest lies is that it is a private affair between the two spouses. No, it is not. It is a communal act, and affects EVERYBODY around us. I learned that when friends got divorced and I was in an outer circle, just becoming friends with them. That “Orthodox” divorce shook me more than my sister’s divorce across the sea at the same time.

We are commanded to love our neighbor and love our enemies. Where in the heck do we think we can make our spouse an exception?

The rejection of this clear Orthodox teaching by people in the Church has driven me into a crisis of faith I’m still not quite out of, the idea that we can reject Christian teaching that we don’t like, think outdated, or “doesn’t apply to people any more”. I can’t even tell you how much that realization, that people in the Church actually do pick and choose which teachings they will keep, and which they will throw out, has crushed my naive belief that we share a common faith, that the Church really IS the Church, and not just another fake organization.

 

[Basil the Great]

I am not Orthodox, but is a well known fact that virtually every Christian body has accepted divorce, in one form or another, though the Catholics call it the annulment process. Having said that, your point is well taken. I recall reading here or on Orthodox websites that the Orthodox accept divorce and remarriage "as a concession to human weakness", but that 3rd Church marriages are rarely allowed.

 

[rockytopva]

13 And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the Lord with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand.
14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the Lord hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.
15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.
16 For the Lord, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the Lord of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.
17 Ye have wearied the Lord with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the Lord, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment? - Malachi 2

 

[ReesePiece23]

I'd sooner take my own life than be forced to exist in a bad marriage.

AND I'd graciously accept whatever consequence awaited me.

All for the sake of escaping hell? I think I'd rather be there to be honest mate.

 

[Not David]

I'd sooner take my own life than be forced to exist in a bad marriage.

AND I'd graciously accept whatever consequence awaited me.

All for the sake of escaping hell? I think I'd rather be there to be honest mate.

That sounds blasphemous.

 

[Not David]

I was just thinking about it. I mean. both the Lord Jesus Christ and St. Paul said that if you get remarried you are committing adultery.

Does that mean people who remarried are living on a constant adultery lifestyle?

 

[anna ~ grace]

Divorce between practicing Orthodox Christians who both declare repentance and a determination to follow Christ is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Orthodox people should stop doing it and stop justifying it. I’m not talking about non-Orthodox, I’m not talking about non-Christians, I’m not talking about unrepentant apostate adulterers. I’m talking about Mark ch 10, especially verse 9.

And one of the biggest lies is that it is a private affair between the two spouses. No, it is not. It is a communal act, and affects EVERYBODY around us. I learned that when friends got divorced and I was in an outer circle, just becoming friends with them. That “Orthodox” divorce shook me more than my sister’s divorce across the sea at the same time.

We are commanded to love our neighbor and love our enemies. Where in the heck do we think we can make our spouse an exception?

The rejection of this clear Orthodox teaching by people in the Church has driven me into a crisis of faith I’m still not quite out of, the idea that we can reject Christian teaching that we don’t like, think outdated, or “doesn’t apply to people any more”. I can’t even tell you how much that realization, that people in the Church actually do pick and choose which teachings they will keep, and which they will throw out, has crushed my naive belief that we share a common faith, that the Church really IS the Church, and not just another fake organization.

Rus, fwiw. Every Church, and by Church I mean the genuinely Apostolic ones, has people who pick and choose and shrug away sin. It happens. People abuse theology. To justify everything. It’s sad. We see people moving on with their lives, happy, sinning, and we’re struggling along, trying to follow Christ, and suffering.

It’s tough. Hang in there. I do think the “great falling away” mentioned by Christ is here. It’ll effect everyone. Every Church. Every Christian. That’s the hard part. Be faithful, Rus. Don’t give up! You have friends on here who are going through the same stuff. And living through the same stuff. You’re not alone on here.

 

[HopeInJesusOnly]

Divorce between practicing Orthodox Christians who both declare repentance and a determination to follow Christ is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Orthodox people should stop doing it and stop justifying it. I’m not talking about non-Orthodox, I’m not talking about non-Christians, I’m not talking about unrepentant apostate adulterers. I’m talking about Mark ch 10, especially verse 9.

And one of the biggest lies is that it is a private affair between the two spouses. No, it is not. It is a communal act, and affects EVERYBODY around us. I learned that when friends got divorced and I was in an outer circle, just becoming friends with them. That “Orthodox” divorce shook me more than my sister’s divorce across the sea at the same time.

We are commanded to love our neighbor and love our enemies. Where in the heck do we think we can make our spouse an exception?

The rejection of this clear Orthodox teaching by people in the Church has driven me into a crisis of faith I’m still not quite out of, the idea that we can reject Christian teaching that we don’t like, think outdated, or “doesn’t apply to people any more”. I can’t even tell you how much that realization, that people in the Church actually do pick and choose which teachings they will keep, and which they will throw out, has crushed my naive belief that we share a common faith, that the Church really IS the Church, and not just another fake organization.

If your husband beats you, do you stay until he finally kills you? If your husband sleeps around, do you agree to share him? If he molests your child, or the neighbour's, do you stay?

If you said "yes," I would take a long look in the mirror at what you've become.

I was abused as a child, and my mother stayed because of this garbage. I suffered hell on earth so she didn't have to break her oath. Seems to me she should go to hell for not protecting her child who was completely dependent on her.

If you have to abandon logic, your faith isn't sound, period.

 

[ReesePiece23]

That sounds blasphemous.

It would be if I didn't mean it.

I imagined myself in that situation. And with my mental health history? No chance.

Luckily, I know God. And I know He wouldn't want that for me. And I won't be shamed by a mortal either.

 

[HopeInJesusOnly]

I was just thinking about it. I mean. both the Lord Jesus Christ and St. Paul said that if you get remarried you are committing adultery.

Does that mean people who remarried are living on a constant adultery lifestyle?

I don't understand. You preach forgiveness to everyone EXCEPT the victim. Those idiots have to keep towing the line.

"Not David." That sounds exactly right for the paradoxes of Christianity.

 

[ReesePiece23]

If your husband beats you, do you stay until he finally kills you? If your husband sleeps around, do you agree to share him? If he molests your child, or the neighbour's, do you stay?

If you said "yes," I would take a long look in the mirror at what you've become.

I was abused as a child, and my mother stayed because of this garbage. I suffered hell on earth so she didn't have to break her oath. Seems to me she should go to hell for not protecting her child who was completely dependent on her.

If you have to abandon logic, your faith isn't sound, period.

I hear you, don't worry.

I watched my mother get taken to the ground by father and struck when I was only 4 years old. I'm not going to swallow this down in a million years, regardless of what I'm blackmailed with or accused of.

 

[bèlla]

I’ve never married and divorce is a rarity in our family. But I agree with @HopeInJesusOnly and recall a classmate who was molested by her stepfather from the age of three. She told her mother and she didn’t believe her and remained with him.

It caused a lot of psychological damage. She was a compulsive liar and prone to fantasy. We never understood until she admitted it. I was 15 at the time and pray I never hear what I heard that night.

The confession hit us like a ton of bricks. We knew it was true and felt it in our spirits. I learned the meaning of compassion that day. You never know what someone’s lived through. I remember cupping her face and telling her she was beautiful and reminding her of the wonderful things life had in store.

I tried to encourage her and make her feel loved. I didn’t know what I was doing but I knew she needed it. I was in the house often and felt something was off but couldn’t put my finger on it. The experience compelled me to look beyond the obvious and offer my assistance when I could.

That was my first time ministering to someone. There would be more like her. Wounded souls yearning for love and acceptance. Needing a respite from the pain. Choices have consequences. Oftentimes we don’t see them when we’re in the thick of things. And they bear fruit.

~bella

 

[NomNomPizza]

Divorce between practicing Orthodox Christians who both declare repentance and a determination to follow Christ is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Orthodox people should stop doing it and stop justifying it. I’m not talking about non-Orthodox, I’m not talking about non-Christians, I’m not talking about unrepentant apostate adulterers. I’m talking about Mark ch 10, especially verse 9.

And one of the biggest lies is that it is a private affair between the two spouses. No, it is not. It is a communal act, and affects EVERYBODY around us. I learned that when friends got divorced and I was in an outer circle, just becoming friends with them. That “Orthodox” divorce shook me more than my sister’s divorce across the sea at the same time.

We are commanded to love our neighbor and love our enemies. Where in the heck do we think we can make our spouse an exception?

The rejection of this clear Orthodox teaching by people in the Church has driven me into a crisis of faith I’m still not quite out of, the idea that we can reject Christian teaching that we don’t like, think outdated, or “doesn’t apply to people any more”. I can’t even tell you how much that realization, that people in the Church actually do pick and choose which teachings they will keep, and which they will throw out, has crushed my naive belief that we share a common faith, that the Church really IS the Church, and not just another fake organization.

Remember that one time God divorced Israel tho?

Yea I agree modern day marriage overall is so bad , I read somewhere it is not even better /longer among believers than unbelievers and its only like 2-3 years on average.
Western women apostate really hard they just take money and leave most of time.

 

[truefiction1]

Believers are not to divorce one another. Believers would not divorce one another. Sometimes one or the other, or both, aren't really believing, and in such cases marriages are ended, because of their sins.

 

[Lost4words]

God knows each and every one of us. He alone knows our strengths and weaknesses. He alone can judge us.

Sometimes, divorce is the only option.

 

[Ezana]

If your husband beats you, do you stay until he finally kills you? If your husband sleeps around, do you agree to share him? If he molests your child, or the neighbour's, do you stay?


If you said "yes," I would take a long look in the mirror at what you've become.


I was abused as a child, and my mother stayed because of this garbage. I suffered hell on earth so she didn't have to break her oath. Seems to me she should go to hell for not protecting her child who was completely dependent on her.


If you have to abandon logic, your faith isn't sound, period.

I don't understand. You preach forgiveness to everyone ACCEPT the victim. Those idiots have to keep towing the line.


"Not David." That sound exactly right for the paradoxes of Christianity.

I hear you, don't worry.


I watched my mother get taken to the ground by father and struck when I was only 4 years old. I'm not going to swallow this down in a million years, regardless of what I'm blackmailed with or accused of.

Just a friendly reminder to all regarding the designated audience of the OP’s concerns:

Divorce between practicing Orthodox Christians who both declare repentance and a determination to follow Christ is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Orthodox people should stop doing it and stop justifying it. I’m not talking about non-Orthodox, I’m not talking about non-Christians, I’m not talking about unrepentant apostate adulterers.

 

[Palmfever]

1Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind…

Mt 5:32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Some will blow smoke here and try to assert that since the marriage is finished so is the command. That is not what it says.

“It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied. “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”



Again in John

At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 “No one, sir,” she said.“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

Lk 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from [her] husband committeth adultery.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery…

Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband.

Rom 7:3 So then if, while [her] husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Scripture is plain. If you have a problem with it don’t try and change my mind. Walk outside and shout at God. Tell Him He’s wrong.
Whatever precipitates divorce may be a good reason, but it is no excuse.
In Christ

 

[ArmyMatt]

The rejection of this clear Orthodox teaching by people in the Church has driven me into a crisis of faith I’m still not quite out of, the idea that we can reject Christian teaching that we don’t like, think outdated, or “doesn’t apply to people any more”. I can’t even tell you how much that realization, that people in the Church actually do pick and choose which teachings they will keep, and which they will throw out, has crushed my naive belief that we share a common faith, that the Church really IS the Church, and not just another fake organization.

even if there is only a handful of faithful people, the Church is still in its fullness.

 

[Palmfever]

1 Cor, 7:10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

15. But if the unbeliever leaves, let him go. The believing brother or sister is not bound in such cases. God has called you to live in peace.

This is the command of God Paul states. While he says you can’t force someone to stay, He gives no permission to re-marry.

Mark, 8:34 "If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me.

Take up your cross and follow Him.

Some will protest, Grace, Grace, Grace.

Romans, 6:1-2What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

It’s so unfair. It’s so hard…

Hebrews,11:37 They were stoned, they were sawed in two, they were put to death by the sword. They went around in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, oppressed, and mistreated. The world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and hid in caves and holes in the ground.

These were all commended for their faith, yet they did not receive what was promised. God had planned something better for us, so that together with us they would be made perfect.

Luke 22:42 ...“Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” 43 Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him. And being in agony, He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down…

My father used to tell us growing up that the modern church was spiritually like Laodicea, Lukewarm.

“Jesus didn’t die for us because it was fun,

He hung there for love, because it had to be done.

In spite of the anguish, His word was fulfilled,

Love is not a feeling, it’s an act of your will.” Don Francisco

 

[Kenny'sID]

Rus, fwiw. Every Church, and by Church I mean the genuinely Apostolic ones, has people who pick and choose and shrug away sin. It happens. People abuse theology. To justify everything. It’s sad. We see people moving on with their lives, happy, sinning, and we’re struggling along, trying to follow Christ, and suffering.

There was a time when those people were removed from the church, and its too bad they tolerate them now a days.1-corinthians/5-13

Those doing those things are like a disease, infecting others in the church, then the snowball effect takes hold until many are sinning regularly.

They should still put them out today, at least until they repent. Might be the nicest thing they can do for the habitual sinner, and definitely good for the church.