Divine punishment? Is it needed?

[Clare73]

He is not what? Emotional?

Not subject to human passions (feelings).
They are used anthropormorphicly of God to describe him in human terms.

 

[Sabertooth]

The "Poor God". "Poor God,He's so sad that all those people are going to be tortured forever, but there's nothing He can do.

Exactly. I'm glad you agree.

If the Father could have just overridden, overruled or overlooked the judgment consequences of sin, it seems to me that He would have stopped short of executing His Son on our behalf.

 

[Clare73]

Psychologists and I make a distinction between “discipline” and “punishment”.

However, God's word does not when it comes to Gehenna.

 

[Hmm]

If the Father could have just overridden, overruled or overlooked the judgment consequences of sin, it seems to me that He would have stopped short of executing His Son on our behalf.

This is merely a strawman argument. It's not what Christian universalism says.

 

[Clare73]

Not sure if unbelief is the only sin that condemns. There is hypocrisy that rages on in Christendom that causes many to fall away. Unbeknownst to them, the hypocrite, walks in the flesh rather than the Spirit. One must be regenerated and yes it starts with belief but it is also conversion and many skip this part due to many factors. "I never knew you" comes to mind.

Regeneration is conversion.

Does no conversion not mean they were never born again in the first place, they were just tares?

 

[Sabertooth]

It's not what Christian universalism says.

I am not beholden to universalism.

 

[Hmm]

I am not beholden to universalism.

Who's saying you are? I was addressing the argument you made.

 

[Sabertooth]

If the Father could have just overridden, overruled or overlooked the judgment consequences of sin, it seems to me that He would have stopped short of executing His Son on our behalf.

This is merely a strawman argument. It's not what Christian universalism says.

I am not beholden to universalism.

Who's saying you are?

My answer need not satisfy the terms of universalism.

 

[bling]

Enabling human notions with even more magnified human notions.

God is our Father (Parent).

 

[public hermit]

If the Father could have just overridden, overruled or overlooked the judgment consequences of sin, it seems to me that He would have stopped short of executing His Son on our behalf.

Christ takes the consequences of sin on himself. Are we now saying his work was not sufficient; God has to punish folks too? What's the point of Christ's death if it doesn't do the whole job? This is why I say, certain atonement theories make God look weak.

God isn't just winking at sin through the incarnation, life, death, and resurrection of the Lord. Sin and the powers working against us, some of which reside in our own hearts, are shown to impotent compared to the power and love of the God of life. Your version of God just can't seem to fix it and settles for a handful.

 

[Clare73]

If the Father could have just overridden, overruled or overlooked the judgment consequences of sin, it seems to me that
He would have stopped short of executing His Son on our behalf.

Yep, God could just have cleaned them up without any punishment to Jesus at all, because they are paying the price themselves for their unbelief, and are earning their pardon.

So where's the "mercy" in universalism?

So we have two salvations--by faith (gospel), and by works (universalism).

Amazing how false doctrine always comes back to denying the gospel.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Not subject to human passions (feelings).
They are used anthropormorphicly of God to describe him in human terms.

Hmmm. I guess I would have to disagree or leave it at unknown. Jesus Christ of Nazareth certainly has feelings and He is God in the flesh. Thanks for engaging!

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Regeneration is conversion.

Does no conversion not mean they were never born again in the first place, they were just tares?

Yes conversion and regeneration can be used interchangeably however, now that I think about it more, conversion is not as powerful of a description for the Holy Spirit Baptism through Christ. Regeneration seems more appropriate afterall, people convert to different religions all the time but not necessarily become regenerated. Same goes for some who are born into a denomination never knowing the regeneration through the Holy Spirit.
My take anyway, via my experience.....

 

[Clare73]

Hmmm. I guess I would have to disagree or leave it at unknown. Jesus Christ of Nazareth certainly has feelings and He is God in the flesh. Thanks for engaging!

C'mon. . .you're better than that.

Jesus also had a nose and two ears.
.

 

[Clare73]

Yes conversion and regeneration can be used interchangeably however, now that I think about it more, conversion is not as powerful of a description for the Holy Spirit Baptism through Christ. Regeneration seems more appropriate afterall, people convert to different religions all the time but not necessarily become regenerated. Same goes for some who are born into a denomination never knowing the regeneration through the Holy Spirit.
My take anyway, via my experience.....

There ya' go. . .that's more like you.

Yes, regeneration is conversion, and is the Biblical and, therefore, better term.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

C'mon. . .you're better than that.

Jesus also had a nose and two ears.
.

Funny but in all seriousness, I do belive He has emotions.

 

[Hmm]

Jesus also had a nose and two ears

Also two eyes with which he wept when he heard of Lazarus's death. How is this not having feelings?

 

[hedrick]

Assuming annihilation is an option. . .nowhere presented in NT teaching, right?

There's plenty of talk about destruction in the NT. The problem is that there's a variety of terms, destruction, fire, punishment. People take different ones literally.

 

[Clare73]

There's plenty of talk about destruction in the NT. The problem is that there's a variety of terms, destruction, fire, punishment. People take different ones literally.

Der Alte pretty much covered that one over in post #91, don't you think?

 

[Fervent]

Also two eyes with which he wept when he heard of Lazarus's death. How is this not having feelings?

Part of the issue is that impassibility is often poorly understood by critics. It's not so much that God doesn't possess the range of human emotion in some divine sense, but that God is not reactionary as we are under emotion. God's emotions are internal to Himself and part of His being, not a response to something outside of Himself.